Hair Algae/Coralline Algae Conundrum

[keaton]

I have a puzzle I am trying to figure out...please weigh in with your input...

First of all, let me warn you that I am a relative newbie at this as I have assumed responsibility for a new system from my son. He is a senior in high school and will soon be leaving for college so he has had me apprenticing under him for the past several months. So please be gentle with me if I say (or am doing something) stupid. I am trying to do a responsible job maintaining this beautiful piece of the ocean. In the meantime, we are both puzzled...

We have a 150 gal main tank with a 20 gallon sump and quite a bit of rock. The rock and livestock came out of a 55 gallon system that had a bad hair algae problem for a period of about 2 months. (That hair algae problem was caused by neglect of that system...use of tap water, inadequate water changes, etc. but I'm not naming any names on that one... ) Anyway, my son scrubbed the rock, ran Probidio and added a phosphate reactor and got everything under control before we transferred the rock and corals to the new system last August. I now use RO/DI water, change the filter sock and clean (not just empty) the ASM3 skimmer cup/neck twice a week. I rinse frozen foods and feed sparingly. There are only about 10 immature fish in the system (yellow tang, hippo tang, scooter blenny, high fin blenny, four pseudo chromis, and a pair of clown fish.) I have numerous coral colonies…sps, lps, leathers, zoas. Everything seems happy and healthy and growing. Additionally I have a cleaner shrimp and a pretty heavy clean-up crew that includes a variety of snails and crabs. I don’t have any nitrate or ammonia in the water, I run the alk on the low side at 8 dKh and my pH is steady at 8.2. Calcium is around 380, specific gravity is a little high at 1.026 and the temp lately has ranged from 80-82. I use Bulk Reef Supply 2 part, magnesium and GFO products and I grow chaeto in the fuge.

The system was PRISTINE until the last maybe six to eight weeks…the only algae I had was in the overflows and I removed it regularly…about every two weeks when I could see it. I didn't really have much coralline algae until fairly recently (I think) because I didn't have the dosing dialed in. Now that it is growing, its a little strange...keep reading.

Most of the tank is completely hair algae free; however, some areas have a fairly heavy “infestation�. A couple rocks may have about 3-4 square inches covering each. Other rocks in the same general vicinity have 1 square inch tufts…probably 20 such tufts all together. There are about 4-6 small tufts coming out of the sand bed. I have been manually removing it so that the blue-leg hermit crabs and 4-5 turbos I have can mow it down, but I don’t even see them working on it. I added another Hydor to increase flow in the area but so far it hasn’t helped. Oddly enough, I have also observed that the coralline algae is noticeably heavier on the end of the tank where there isn’t much hair algae. I’m talking NOTICEABLY as in 8-10 times heavier. Both ends have the same exact lamps XM 20K that were simultaneously replaced in December.

Over time the areas with algae are increasing…maybe partly from my manual removal allowing tiny pieces to “migrate� to other areas. I know algae is natural in the ocean, and I don’t mind if there are traces, but I am sensing that this could very quickly get out of hand as it has sort of “exploded�. I have read Sprung’s book on algae and think that I am covering everything I can.

Here are my comments/questions:

1/ Wonder if this (the lack of hair algae and proliferation of coralline on one end and the opposite situation on the other end) could be the result of poor flow?

2/ OR more likely, could it be the result of a bad lamp? If the light spectrum on the one lamp was wrong, would it keep coralline growth down and promote the hair algae growth?

I am considering running the Probidio again but if it is just a lamp thing, I'd rather not.

Thanks!
Keaton's mom

[waynem]

Left field question, is your tank near a window?

[keaton]

Well, I had to leave at least one detail out! It is about 18-20 feet from the nearest window, and we live on a wooded lot so there isn't much if any direct sun that hits the tank.

[bubbly]

The easiest thing for any new reefkeeper is to overfeed.

I would say that "nutrient balance" is one of the hardest things to get down in a reef tank.

If you start adding too much food before the tank can handle it, then you will end up with a fuel source that can fuel a pest infestation, and if you just handle the symptom of the infestation (IE a new critter to eat all the hair algae) then a new pest can come along to use all the nutrients to reproduce.

So I would say that you should start focusing on 'nutrient export' mechanisms to remove the excess nutrients from the system that are allowing your halr algae to grow, before it explodes all over the tank and you end up with a nightmare on your hands.

If you have a low enough level of nutrients in your tank, you can have a stand of hair algae that does not grow b/c there is not enough nutrients for it to grow.

Even if you figure out the proper bulb/flow balance on the hair algae side of the tank so that it grows coraline there, if you have lots of extra nutrients then you will just end up with aptasia exploding all over your tank, or red flatworms, or bryopsis, as soon as you bring in the next frag with a tiny piece of a pest on it.

[keaton]

I really don't think I am overdoing the feeding, though I could be wrong. I feed once daily. When I use frozen foods (about 2X per week), I use one cube and rinse it. When I use pellet food it is literally ONE pinch. About 2X week I will put a 4" x 1" piece of some type of nori on a clip.

Wouldn't I be seeing the 'excess nutrients' you refer to on my test results? Am I wrong that the only nutrient I'm not testing for is phosphate? And its my understanding that I can't practically test for the problematic phosphate. I am running a phosphate reactor with GFO that is now about 6 weeks old...approximately the same age as the algae outbreak. I agree that SOMETHING is feeding the algae, but when I don't show any ammonia or nitrate on my tests... what is it?

What 'nutrient export' mechanisms am I not taking advantage of? Are you talking about Purigen and the like? What about Probidio?

Give me some concrete suggestions if you can. Thanks!

[bubbly]

I'm not saying that your'r "overdoing the feeding" -- it's just that nutrients in a reef tank is a careful balance between the "import" (feeding) and "export" (nutrient removal).

You just have to find the right balance for your tank at any one time, and the more you feed, the more organisms grow to be able to take up that food -- you just want to control things so that the organisms that grow aren't hair algae or aiptasia.

If you have hair algae growing in your reef tank, it's a truism in the reef tank hobby that you won't see any phosphate on your test results. Why? The hair algae is so efficient at uptaking the phosphate that it doesn't leave any in the water column for your test.

But if hair algae is growing, then you you can be sure that there is excess phosphate in the water without having to test for it -- the fact that it's growing is proof enough of the phosphate in the water, just as a car driving is proof that there is gasoline in the tank.

I haven't used prodibio, but I have heard that it is just a mild form of carbon dosing.

As for nutrient removal here are the main methods I can think of:

1) water changes
2) skimming (wet skimming, making sure you have an efficient skimmer)
3) Good strong lights on your fuge to grow the chaeto.
4) Carbon dosing and phosphate absorbers

There are other methods, but these are the easiest. I put carbon dosing and phosphate absorbers (like GFO, granular ferric oxide (rust)) in one option because they are very powerful and need to be researched well before they are used.

If you put too much GFO in the tank, then you can find all your corals bleached in a day or two because you took ALL the phosphate out of the water and the symbiotic algae in the coral died.

if you put too much carbon (vodka, sugar, or vinegar) in the tank, you can have a bacterial bloom that can suck all the oxygen out of the tank when it dies and kill your fish / corals that way.

So the method to both is to research very heavily and start extremely slowly and ramp up slowly, and back off as soon as you see any negative changes or things looking odd.

I got rid of my gha with carbon dosing, and I think it's a godsend, but you want to be very careful with it, and have extra air stones ready in case you overdose for some reason.

I haven't used Purigen or Prodibio -- I have some Prodibio that someone gave me, and my local reef club got the stuff free last year, but I haven't really heard of many people really using it much -- it may work for you, I just don't know much about it.

I would start with more water changes, and then I would harvest a bunch of chaeto, make sure that you break it up so that there are plenty of cut ends for it to grow from, make sure your skimmer is working efficiently and maybe start "wet skimming" (set it so that it pulls a more wet skimmate out of the tank -- this keeps it cleaner and more efficient longer and and pulls more "dirty water" out of the tank, so it acts like many little mini water changes but getting out the dirtiest water)

Then I would read about the carbon and gfo and start it extremely slowly, and then just use the growth of the GHA as the barometer of how effective your techniques are.

[Death Shrimp99]

I have a question that pertains to this topic as I have a hair algae problem too. I know that the color temp of lights decreases as they get older. Does hair algae prefer lower color temps? I am getting a new light soon. Would a 6,500k bulb promote hair algae growth significantly more than 10,000k or 15,000k bulb?

[davewbush]

Phosphate will get down in the rocks and this could of happened to the rocks that you got from the 55. Over time it could be leaching out. With phos is the tank, it makes it hard for coralin algae to grow. The gha will also shade the coralin from light and cause it to die off putting more phos in the tank.

I've been battleing gha for about 5 months and finaly got the upper hand on it. I upgraded my skimmer, started doing 10% water changes once a week, and running GFO. I also used a little Algaefix.

How old are the light bulbs?

[keaton]

The lamps are only 4 months old.

I don't think my words can adequately explain how crazy the coralline pattern is. The most obvious gauge of growth is on the black overflows. One overflow is nearly completely covered with coralline and there is just a tiny bit of hair algae on that side. The other overflow has small dots of coralline and several of the rocks on that side have a healthy, vibrant crop of hair algae.

I only have two MH fixtures, one on each end...there isn't one in the middle...so each end is just bathed in the output from its own lamp. I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I know old lamps' change of spectrum can fuel hair algae growth, why couldn't a "bad" lamp do the same?

I guess the part I don't connect on the old lamp theory is that it seems to me that there has to be something "feeding" the hair algae. So in spite of RO/DI water, regular water changes, and a phosphate reactor do I have phosphates, perhaps from the old rocks, in the water? But that being said, if phosphates indeed hamper coralline growth, then why do I have a bumper crop on one end of the tank?

[davewbush]

Coraline also grows better in areas with hi flow. Maybe the one side of your tank has a more direct flow at the overflow. I don't thnk it has a lot to do with the bulbs because they aren't that old. What kind of flow do you have in the tank, powerheads, pump for the sump? Do you know how many times your tank is turning over an hour?

[keaton]

davewbush: The return pump is rated at 1200 GPH though don't know what it actually does considering the head. It returns through single lockline outlets, one on each end of the tank. There are two large hydors, one pointing somewhat downward and the other riffling the surface of the water. Both are up high and forward on either side of the tank.

You are right though, there is more flow directed at the heavy coralline/light algae side of the tank which is why I initially added the second hydor. I wondered if it was a flow issue. The flow appears to be quite heavy and turbulent, I have had trouble placing my two Cynarinas because they keep wanting to fold over on themselves and the long polyped sarcophyton's polyps are in constant random motion...if that is any indication. The hair algae is absolutely heaviest in the least flow area (far end of the tank, on the back side of the rock structure.)


bubbly: I think I am doing everything on your list except carbon dosing. I have been scared of it though I'd be willing to go the Probidio route...not that it may be any "safer" but it seems more controlled. Maybe a false sense of security.

I appreciate your comment on how to harvest the chaeto. I have just been pulling a wad off one end, not considering cutting with the goal of creating more fresh ends. I am actually a gardener so I fully understand how that creates more branching and a different type of growth. Ever noticed what happens to a tree when it is "topped"?..great comment.

I think I am skimming wet, I know I am skimming wetter than I was. Before the neck of the skimmer got cruddy after only a few days and needed to be cleaned as badly as the collection cup's neck. My skimmate now is iced-tea colored but I probably only empty about 4-6 oz every 3 days or so...not much of a mini water change on a 150 gal. tank. Maybe I'm not skimming as wet as I think I am.

[villious]

I'm battling the same problem with GHA. I've been using Brightwell's Reef Biofuel for a week now. I think I'm seeing an improvement. I also added GFO and carbon, and I'm doing 55 gallon water changes twice a week. (120 gallon tank)

[SnowManSnow]

I didn't bother to read through all the replies so please excuse me if I restate something.

#1 Being by a window WILL NOT cause algae to grow. Algae grows when there is an excess of nutrients (of some sort) in the water. Its just like any thing else. Without food it will die.

#2 We all have SOME nutrients for algae to grow in our tanks, but sometimes an increase in TEMP can cause it to spike. Is your tank running cool enough? (noticed you had added another powerhead).

#3 Increased water changes over the next few months can do wonderful things for killing algae. Possibly double your change volume (not frequency) for a few months.

#4 DECREASE your photo period or even GO DARK for 2 or 3 days. To help stunt the algae growth.

#5 Do you have a tang in the tank? Mine absolutely REFUSES to let algae of ANY kind grow ANYWHERE.

GL ... Hair algae is a mother to get rid of.

B

[villious]

Go dark for 2 - 3 days? Any negative impact for corals? I know there are cloudy/stormy days on the reef.....

[keaton]

snowmansnow:
#2 "...sometimes an increase in TEMP can cause it to spike. Is your tank running cool enough?" (80-82)

#4 "...GO DARK for 2 or 3 days. To help stunt the algae growth" (won't the dying/decaying algae just add nutrients back into the tank? Seems like that isn't actually a fix)

#5 "Do you have a tang in the tank? (I have two, a yellow and a hippo, neither of which is the least bit interested. I also have about a bazillion snails and 20 blue leg hermits. I've been pulling from the heaviest areas to help them be able to mow it down, but they are not taking the hint.)

I have to agree that something is feeding the algae and unless my test kits are wrong, the likely culprit is phosphate. I don't see what harm could come from more substantial water changes, but what about more GFO with the goal of reducing/eliminating the phosphate that is obviously there? How does one decide how much GFO is too much? What is the appropriate amount to add to the reactor and how often until the maximum amount needed is reached? I probably have a little less than one cup in the reactor right now and it is about 2 months old.

[wmilas]

You most likely have a myriad of "problems" or more precisely factors here.

As stated above you can load rock with phosphate. Rock will absorb it like a sponge until its in equilibrium with the water around it. Lower the phosphate in the water and it will slowly leach out of the rock.

The only cure for this is to keep at it. Let it leach, keep removing it. GFO will keep removing it from the water column. Carbon dosing will also, but carbon removes nitrate at a higher rate than Phosphate. Just stick with it and let the phosphate burn itself out.

You might also consider a tang (Scopas would be a good choice) to help with the algae removal. I'm currently burning phosphate out of some base rock that went through a GHA phase, and now is in the last throws of a Byropsis phase and my tangs are fighting the good fight, continually sucking down the algae.

Flow doesn't matter much when its in the rock. As stated Coraline will grow better in high flow, but GHA doesn't care when there is phosphate. I have a rock with phosphate the is taking a direct hit from a Magnum that dishes out 3500 gph. Its still growing. When GHA isn't feeding off a rock but from trapped debris then flow DOES matter.

You can reduce your light cycle but if its in the rock, it will jsut come back. Just stick with it and burn it out is my advice. You aren't overfeeding, you just need to export the nutrients that are still there from when you WERE overfeeding

[keaton]

wmilas, thanks for your reply, I have a couple questions:

1/ Why did this leaching just begin about two months ago when this system has been running eight months? Why didn't this problem rear its ugly head before now? I'm not disputing your theory, I just don't understand.

2/ No more tangs, I already have two...why not more blue leg crabs and/or turbo snails?

3/ Referring to my previous question why can't I up the GFO so that it grabs the phosphate that the rock is leaching BEFORE it feeds the algae? Are you saying that the algae is getting its phosphate DIRECTLY from the rocks? I don't get that, besides if that were true then why would I have some tufts on the sand bed? It was new live sand eight months ago...In my mind I am imagining that the algae is taking up the phosphate that has come out of the rocks and into the water.

So if that is correct (and I'm really not sure) then can someone address this earlier question: "...but what about using more GFO with the goal of reducing/eliminating the phosphate that is obviously there? How does one decide how much GFO is too much? What is the appropriate amount to add to the reactor and how often until the maximum amount needed is reached? I probably have a little less than one cup in the reactor right now and it is about 2 months old." And further, if it is added gradually and there is no "too much" would it be a benefit to run two reactors to put more GFO to work? Of course, I am talking about gradually working up to that point.

[davewbush]

I konw GFO last longer in a ractor than in a media bag but 2 months is still a long time. I would use 2 table spoons of GFO per 25 galions and change it every 2 to three weeks until the GHA starts to melt away. May be able to go up to 3 table spoons but I would wait and see how the tank reacts.