Best solution for ich in qt

bjhubb · 05/10/2009, 09:33 AM

I put a stawberry seudochromis in qt a little over a week ago. Last night noticed ich on fins. What would be the best remedy? I do have a couple of turbo snails in there also. I would also like to use this tank to quarantine corals and inverts in the future. I have been feeding food with garlic. Should I just let it run its course or treat with something?

vikubz · 05/10/2009, 10:47 AM

Ich won't affect corals or inverts, but once you have dealt with the pseudochromis, just leave the tank empty of fish for a month and the ich will run its life cycle. Do you have another small tank you could use to treat the fish in?

returnofsid · 05/10/2009, 10:50 AM

In the QT tank, remove the snails and do a hyposalinity treatment for 8 weeks. This will keep the tank safe for future use as a coral QT tank, without having to worry about the effects of meds.

Ehaze · 05/10/2009, 10:52 AM

Copper for a week, then toss the fish back in the display, unless your display has been infected with ich, then you have to wait a month.

snorvich · 05/10/2009, 11:35 AM

The 99% safe fallow time for ich is 11 weeks unless you increase the temperature in the tank to decrease it. FYI

bjhubb · 05/10/2009, 04:22 PM

I have been quarantining the new pseudo and snails dt is fallow other than corals and a few inverts because of a past ich problem. If I put snails in dt won't the water from them infect my dt? Plus I want to treat in a way that I can still use my qt to quarantiine inverts and corals

Hal · 05/11/2009, 12:10 PM

Hypo is a better solution than copper. It's just as effective, and much gentler on the fish.

2 weeks at normal reef temps is the absolute minimum time (after you've hit the full dosage level of copper, or 1.009 salinity for hypo). 4 weeks is recommended by most. 6 is even better if you have the patience for it.

This is the first time I'd heard of 11 weeks for 99% certainty, although obviously ich treatment is a case where longer is better.

bsagecko · 05/11/2009, 01:15 PM

hyposalination +1

6~8 week treatment course

jenglish · 05/11/2009, 03:37 PM

I generally see 6 weeks as 95% and 8 weeks as 99.9% for die off in a fallow tank. IIRC Burgess found 72 days as the record but this was in considerably cooler than we keep out tanks.

I prefer hypo and consider it safer. There are some strains out there resistent to hypo and I believe I even heard about copper resistent strains. Copper is faster and a bit easier to maintain proper levels.. but harder on the fish IMHO

hottuna · 05/11/2009, 04:09 PM

what do u guys mean by fallow?
is that with copper in the qt or without in the dt ?

bjhubb · 05/11/2009, 04:14 PM

So hyposalination is 1.009 for at least 2 weeks in the qt? I have raised the temp to about 81-82.

snorvich · 05/11/2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hottuna
what do u guys mean by fallow?

No fish in the tank.

bjhubb · 05/11/2009, 04:18 PM

How fast can I lower the salinity?

jenglish · 05/11/2009, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bjhubb
So hyposalination is 1.009 for at least 2 weeks in the qt? I have raised the temp to about 81-82.

hypo should be at least 4 weeks after the last sign of ich (6 is better). Do not try to use a swing arm hydrometer, you must use a recently calibrated refractometer. You will have to check the salinity a couple times a day. too high won't kill the ich and too low will kill the fish. (they are internally about 1.008 and are not made to process water less salty than them). It should take 2-3 days to lower the salinity but it will have to be raised back up MUCH slower at the end, like .004 a day or so

bjhubb · 05/11/2009, 09:46 PM

I was worried that I would need a refractometer. All I have is a hydrometer. None of the LFS have refractometers in stock. I probably need to order one. I saw one on Dr. fosters for about $50. Is this one very accurate and is anyone currently using this one. Thanks for all the help.

JonnyD91 · 05/11/2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bjhubb
I was worried that I would need a refractometer. All I have is a hydrometer. None of the LFS have refractometers in stock. I probably need to order one. I saw one on Dr. fosters for about $50. Is this one very accurate and is anyone currently using this one. Thanks for all the help.

i have that one. And i have used it successfully to do a hypo treatment down to 1.009

tmz · 05/11/2009, 11:20 PM

Couple of thoughjts:

I prefer copper ;it's faster; surer; and hypo may be just as hard or harder on the fish long term ,especially the kidneys.

Having said that. In your situation hyposlainity could work without messing your tank up with copper to leach back but will probably kill the snails , pods, etc. It may also suppress the biofilration in the qt at least temporarily.

The internal salinity of the fish is about 1.008. If you don't go below that you can drop the salinity very quickly without harm or stress to the fish. If you go below that the fish will bloat after a period of time and wont be able to maintain homeostasis. Generally, a two day time frame is used to allow the nitrifying bacteria to adjust. The problem is that while you wait cysts are maturing , ich is multiplying and readying to hatch out at 200 to 300 fold in a few days to a week from when they leave the fish and the spots appear.

When you go back up raise it slowly, about .001 per day, to avoid stressing the fish. The fish should remain in hypo for 4 weeks after all signs of ich have passed.

If you have another couple of tanks or bins , you could use the tank transfer method. Transfer the fish to a clean tank/bin that has been allowed to dry thoroughly every 3 days for a total of 4 transfers. Drying should destroy the cysts that were not cleaned out.This will leave all the ich behind as they leave the fish before they have a chance to encyst and reinfect.

It is possible that your snails could carry the ich cyst into your display if a cysts or two is attached to their shells.

Hal · 05/12/2009, 10:51 AM

Everything that you need to know about ich

Everything that you need to know about hyposalinity

Happy reading.

Hal · 05/12/2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bjhubb
I was worried that I would need a refractometer. All I have is a hydrometer. None of the LFS have refractometers in stock. I probably need to order one. I saw one on Dr. fosters for about $50. Is this one very accurate and is anyone currently using this one. Thanks for all the help.

A refractometer is highly recommended. If you're off just a little the entire hypo treatment can be a failure. From what I've read, the variability on most hydrometers is too great to rely on them for hypo (1.009).

You should be able to find a refractometer for less than $50. Marine Deopot has them for $39.99, and other internet stores have them for $35.

05/10/2009, 09:33 AM	#1
bjhubb Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amarillo, TX Posts: 230	Best solution for ich in qt I put a stawberry seudochromis in qt a little over a week ago. Last night noticed ich on fins. What would be the best remedy? I do have a couple of turbo snails in there also. I would also like to use this tank to quarantine corals and inverts in the future. I have been feeding food with garlic. Should I just let it run its course or treat with something?

05/10/2009, 10:52 AM	#4
Ehaze Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Thornton, Colorado Posts: 1,259	Copper for a week, then toss the fish back in the display, unless your display has been infected with ich, then you have to wait a month. __________________ 75g SPS tank, 30gal sump/refuge. Melev RO/DI, Coravue duel calc reactor, MSP 200 skimmer, 2 Vortech MP40, Mag drive 9.5 return, autotopoff.com ATO, 2 CoralVue 250W SE finished pendants(with 20k Radium bulbs), powered by 2x Icecap ballasts, controlled by a ACJR.

05/10/2009, 11:35 AM	#5
snorvich Team RC member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Outlander Posts: 40,953 Blog Entries: 46	The 99% safe fallow time for ich is 11 weeks unless you increase the temperature in the tank to decrease it. FYI __________________ Warmest regards, ~Steve~

05/11/2009, 12:10 PM	#7
Hal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,889	Hypo is a better solution than copper. It's just as effective, and much gentler on the fish. 2 weeks at normal reef temps is the absolute minimum time (after you've hit the full dosage level of copper, or 1.009 salinity for hypo). 4 weeks is recommended by most. 6 is even better if you have the patience for it. This is the first time I'd heard of 11 weeks for 99% certainty, although obviously ich treatment is a case where longer is better. __________________ Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints. Current Tank Info: 250g starphire: 72x28x30, BeanAnimal drain with an oversized non-durso emergency drain, 4 inch DSB, 3x Reefbreeders Value LED fixtures, SWC/MSX 300A skimmer, Geo kalk reactor, 3 Vortechs w/bb, carbon reactor, and a RKL

05/11/2009, 01:15 PM	#8
bsagecko Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,752	hyposalination +1 6~8 week treatment course __________________ There are three things that will never be believed- the true, the probable, the logical (Steinbeck) Obey little, Resist much Current Tank Info: 24g AIO

05/10/2009, 10:47 AM	#2
vikubz Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cedar Falls, IA Posts: 599	Ich won't affect corals or inverts, but once you have dealt with the pseudochromis, just leave the tank empty of fish for a month and the ich will run its life cycle. Do you have another small tank you could use to treat the fish in?

05/10/2009, 10:50 AM	#3
returnofsid Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Spokane, WA Posts: 3,852	In the QT tank, remove the snails and do a hyposalinity treatment for 8 weeks. This will keep the tank safe for future use as a coral QT tank, without having to worry about the effects of meds.

05/10/2009, 04:22 PM	#6
bjhubb Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amarillo, TX Posts: 230	I have been quarantining the new pseudo and snails dt is fallow other than corals and a few inverts because of a past ich problem. If I put snails in dt won't the water from them infect my dt? Plus I want to treat in a way that I can still use my qt to quarantiine inverts and corals

05/11/2009, 03:37 PM	#9
jenglish Marquis de Carabas Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,523	I generally see 6 weeks as 95% and 8 weeks as 99.9% for die off in a fallow tank. IIRC Burgess found 72 days as the record but this was in considerably cooler than we keep out tanks. I prefer hypo and consider it safer. There are some strains out there resistent to hypo and I believe I even heard about copper resistent strains. Copper is faster and a bit easier to maintain proper levels.. but harder on the fish IMHO __________________ Jeremy Brown liquor never hurt anybody “Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse" Pierre-Simon Laplace I should want to cook him a simple meal, but I shouldn't want to cut into him, to tear the flesh, to wear the flesh, to be born unto new worlds where his flesh becomes my key. Current Tank Info: broken and dry

05/11/2009, 04:09 PM	#10
hottuna Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,248	what do u guys mean by fallow? is that with copper in the qt or without in the dt ? __________________ HotTuna

05/11/2009, 04:14 PM	#11
bjhubb Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amarillo, TX Posts: 230	So hyposalination is 1.009 for at least 2 weeks in the qt? I have raised the temp to about 81-82.

05/11/2009, 04:18 PM	#13
bjhubb Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amarillo, TX Posts: 230	How fast can I lower the salinity?

05/11/2009, 09:46 PM	#15
bjhubb Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Amarillo, TX Posts: 230	I was worried that I would need a refractometer. All I have is a hydrometer. None of the LFS have refractometers in stock. I probably need to order one. I saw one on Dr. fosters for about $50. Is this one very accurate and is anyone currently using this one. Thanks for all the help.

05/11/2009, 11:20 PM	#17
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Couple of thoughjts: I prefer copper ;it's faster; surer; and hypo may be just as hard or harder on the fish long term ,especially the kidneys. Having said that. In your situation hyposlainity could work without messing your tank up with copper to leach back but will probably kill the snails , pods, etc. It may also suppress the biofilration in the qt at least temporarily. The internal salinity of the fish is about 1.008. If you don't go below that you can drop the salinity very quickly without harm or stress to the fish. If you go below that the fish will bloat after a period of time and wont be able to maintain homeostasis. Generally, a two day time frame is used to allow the nitrifying bacteria to adjust. The problem is that while you wait cysts are maturing , ich is multiplying and readying to hatch out at 200 to 300 fold in a few days to a week from when they leave the fish and the spots appear. When you go back up raise it slowly, about .001 per day, to avoid stressing the fish. The fish should remain in hypo for 4 weeks after all signs of ich have passed. If you have another couple of tanks or bins , you could use the tank transfer method. Transfer the fish to a clean tank/bin that has been allowed to dry thoroughly every 3 days for a total of 4 transfers. Drying should destroy the cysts that were not cleaned out.This will leave all the ich behind as they leave the fish before they have a chance to encyst and reinfect. It is possible that your snails could carry the ich cyst into your display if a cysts or two is attached to their shells. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

05/12/2009, 10:51 AM	#18
Hal Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Longmont, CO Posts: 1,889	Everything that you need to know about ich Everything that you need to know about hyposalinity Happy reading. __________________ Some days it's not even worth chewing through the restraints. Current Tank Info: 250g starphire: 72x28x30, BeanAnimal drain with an oversized non-durso emergency drain, 4 inch DSB, 3x Reefbreeders Value LED fixtures, SWC/MSX 300A skimmer, Geo kalk reactor, 3 Vortechs w/bb, carbon reactor, and a RKL