sump plumbing question

Kur · 06/07/2009, 07:20 PM

The search button on this forum almost never works for me or else I probably wouldn't have had to make this thread.

Anyway, I just got myself a 55g tank to use as a sump and I am trying to figure out the best way to plumb it up to my display tank.

I am going to be using a cpr overflow box and I have read some mixed reviews about its ability to maintain a siphon, even with the goofy little aqualift pump on it.

I am trying to figure out how to plumb this system so that my display tank does not overflow if I happen to lose the siphon. The only thing I can think of is mounting the return pump near the surface of the water in my sump.

I feel like I am missing something really obvious here.

Everything I have found online only shows how to avoid floods if the power goes out, or setups for pre-drilled aquariums.

Any ideas?

Thanks.

Imzadi · 06/07/2009, 07:30 PM

Is drilling out of the question?

surfer0063 · 06/07/2009, 09:04 PM

I am currently plumber and we use what are called check valves to prevent water from flowing in the "other" direction. Maybe using one of these in your setup will work.

Kur · 06/08/2009, 12:37 AM

Yeah, drilling is out of the question, and I am not worried about water flowing back down the return line. I've got that covered.

My concern is if the siphon on the overflow box stops, and the pump is still running, is there some plumbing trick I can use to stop the pump from overflowing the display tank?

So far the only thing I can think of is keeping my return pump close to the water surface in the sump. But this would mean the pump will likely burn up and fry, but at least there wouldn't be a flood.

I have this nagging feeling there is a simple solution to this, I just can't figure out what it is.

ordy1 · 06/08/2009, 04:33 AM

Flow switch

escription
Flow Switches are used to cut off power to the pump/chiller in case the water flow stops (such as a pump failure or during water changes).

Compguy · 06/08/2009, 06:24 AM

If you plan to place the return close to the water service just be careful, if the water level on my return gets within an inch or so of the bulkhead a typhoon starts and it starts sucking in air, I suppose you could put a 90 going down to try and prevent it. I have a CPR Overflow with an Aqualifter pump and have had alot better luck using the standard overflow's that have the u shaped tube. The only time mine has really lost a siphon was my fault, not paying attention to the prefilter for the Aqualifter or cleaning it regularly. You also have to pay attention to that little fitting that you hook the airline tubing up to, algae does grow in it and clog it, so just check it and clean it if need be. If I had to do it all over again I would buy a u shaped tube overflow, no matter how many times the power has gone out or what not I have never lost a siphon in one of those.

Kur · 06/08/2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Compguy
If you plan to place the return close to the water service just be careful, if the water level on my return gets within an inch or so of the bulkhead a typhoon starts and it starts sucking in air, I suppose you could put a 90 going down to try and prevent it. I have a CPR Overflow with an Aqualifter pump and have had alot better luck using the standard overflow's that have the u shaped tube. The only time mine has really lost a siphon was my fault, not paying attention to the prefilter for the Aqualifter or cleaning it regularly. You also have to pay attention to that little fitting that you hook the airline tubing up to, algae does grow in it and clog it, so just check it and clean it if need be. If I had to do it all over again I would buy a u shaped tube overflow, no matter how many times the power has gone out or what not I have never lost a siphon in one of those.

Yeah, I knew all that about the CPR box before I bought it, but it was only $20 and the price for overflows is so ridiculously expensive it actually makes me mad. Since I am on such a limited budget, I couldn't pass up the chance to buy this one.

Seriously, Why should a dinky overflow box cost half as much as the aquarium? con artists...

By the way, where can I get one of those flow switches and how much are they?

Compguy · 06/08/2009, 05:56 PM

Ya, really, that is a great deal, I probably would have done the same!

Here is the one that is shown above, Fins Furs and Feathers is basically Marinedepot.com

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...ry~FICHCA.html

Kur · 06/08/2009, 11:38 PM

$150...

One hundred fifty dollars...

I swear these people are outside their minds. I would rather flood my house on principle, than spend $150 on what is obviously no more than $4 in parts.

There has got to be a better way. Like, "put an elbow here with a line to here and problem solved!"

Stupid me getting in to any stupid hobby that comes along. $1200 for a light? $400 for a tube full of bubbles? $60 for a bucket of salt? $150 for a flow switch? Oh yeah, lets not forget $7-$12 a pound for ROCKS. I don't care what is growing on it, it is a ROCK they pick up out of the ocean!

#@%&

They sure saw us commin guys. They saw us commin.

*sigh*

rant over.

sjm817 · 06/09/2009, 05:43 AM

People are always looking for tricks to prevent the flood from the inevitable failure of a CPR overflow.

Is there a reason you dont want to drill the display? If not, get rid of the CPR and get a reliable HOB overflow.

If you must use the CPR, you have the right idea. Limit the amount of water the return can pump into the display during a failure. You can do this with a baffle making the return section small. This has other consequences such as the need for frequent topoffs or an auto topoff.

detroit_fan · 06/09/2009, 11:11 AM

You say drilling is out, but why? It is sooooo much more reliable and most people that don't drill really wish they had. Like Scott said, the cpr will fail at some point.

surfer0063 · 06/09/2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kur
$150...

One hundred fifty dollars...

I swear these people are outside their minds. I would rather flood my house on principle, than spend $150 on what is obviously no more than $4 in parts.

There has got to be a better way. Like, "put an elbow here with a line to here and problem solved!"

Stupid me getting in to any stupid hobby that comes along. $1200 for a light? $400 for a tube full of bubbles? $60 for a bucket of salt? $150 for a flow switch? Oh yeah, lets not forget $7-$12 a pound for ROCKS. I don't care what is growing on it, it is a ROCK they pick up out of the ocean!

#@%&

They sure saw us commin guys. They saw us commin.

*sigh*

rant over.

LOL

Kur · 06/09/2009, 06:39 PM

Can't drill because of a few reasons:

1. Tank is heavy. Super heavy. Made of 3/4 glass on the bottom, 5/8 on the long sides, and 1/2 on the smaller sides. Tearing it all down (no place to put the sand and rock) and taking it outside to run water to the drill site is all but impossible given the scrawniness of my friend. (yes one friend.. the others moved out of state.. the jerks)

2. The tank is old, really old. Probably made in the mid to late 70's. Possibly early 80's. Old glass gets brittle.

3. No idea if it is tempered or not. There are no labels or stickers anywhere.

4. The tank is old, and so it is scratched. A LOT. I really want to get a replacement tank, I just can't afford it.

5. I have horrible luck. Even if the glass is not brittle or tempered, and any crackhead off the street with the shakes could probably drill it fine, if I try to drill it, it will crack.

lol, unless one of you guys wants to come do it for me and assume full responsibility for whatever may happen!

sjm817 · 06/09/2009, 07:21 PM

OK. I thought this was a new setup. Drilling a tank that is up and running is not typically a popular option.

surfer0063 · 06/09/2009, 07:29 PM

I say that you just get an overflow that has good reviews about not losing prime and just trust the overflow. Cause without drilling or buying a float switch, thats really your only option. Unless... you spend sometime a try to make a system that is impossible to lose prime. Then you'll be a millionaire and be able to buy your dream tank. Thats what I would do.

laugh · 06/09/2009, 08:35 PM

Just make sure that the return section of your sump does not hold a larger volume of water than your tank could hold before it overflows. In other words if the CPR fails there will be no additional water going into the sump so once the return section is empty no more water will be pumped into the tank. As long as your tank can handle this additional 5 or so gallons you should be good. You can buy one of these to protect your pump http://www.aquahub.com/store/ifloatfloatswitch.html
Good luck

06/07/2009, 07:20 PM	#1
Kur Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mesa, AZ. Posts: 125	sump plumbing question The search button on this forum almost never works for me or else I probably wouldn't have had to make this thread. Anyway, I just got myself a 55g tank to use as a sump and I am trying to figure out the best way to plumb it up to my display tank. I am going to be using a cpr overflow box and I have read some mixed reviews about its ability to maintain a siphon, even with the goofy little aqualift pump on it. I am trying to figure out how to plumb this system so that my display tank does not overflow if I happen to lose the siphon. The only thing I can think of is mounting the return pump near the surface of the water in my sump. I feel like I am missing something really obvious here. Everything I have found online only shows how to avoid floods if the power goes out, or setups for pre-drilled aquariums. Any ideas? Thanks.

06/07/2009, 07:30 PM	#2
Imzadi Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 1,038	Is drilling out of the question? __________________ If you don't agree with me, that's fine... just go, think about it some more, and come back when you do. Current Tank Info: 120g Freshie, 55g salty with a 2/3 BeanAnimal. BA METHOD - TESTIFY! I am a DIY Disaster, but I am saving money! Damsel FREE since 07/08/09!

06/07/2009, 09:04 PM	#3
surfer0063 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 79	I am currently plumber and we use what are called check valves to prevent water from flowing in the "other" direction. Maybe using one of these in your setup will work. __________________ I'm That Guy Bring a man to a fish store, he looks at fish for a couple minutes. Teach a man to marine keep, he looks at fish for a life time.

06/08/2009, 04:33 AM	#5
ordy1 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: new jersey Posts: 425	Flow switchescription Flow Switches are used to cut off power to the pump/chiller in case the water flow stops (such as a pump failure or during water changes).

06/09/2009, 05:43 AM	#10
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	People are always looking for tricks to prevent the flood from the inevitable failure of a CPR overflow. Is there a reason you dont want to drill the display? If not, get rid of the CPR and get a reliable HOB overflow. If you must use the CPR, you have the right idea. Limit the amount of water the return can pump into the display during a failure. You can do this with a baffle making the return section small. This has other consequences such as the need for frequent topoffs or an auto topoff. __________________ - Scott

06/08/2009, 12:37 AM	#4
Kur Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mesa, AZ. Posts: 125	Yeah, drilling is out of the question, and I am not worried about water flowing back down the return line. I've got that covered. My concern is if the siphon on the overflow box stops, and the pump is still running, is there some plumbing trick I can use to stop the pump from overflowing the display tank? So far the only thing I can think of is keeping my return pump close to the water surface in the sump. But this would mean the pump will likely burn up and fry, but at least there wouldn't be a flood. I have this nagging feeling there is a simple solution to this, I just can't figure out what it is.

06/08/2009, 06:24 AM	#6
Compguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 1,313	If you plan to place the return close to the water service just be careful, if the water level on my return gets within an inch or so of the bulkhead a typhoon starts and it starts sucking in air, I suppose you could put a 90 going down to try and prevent it. I have a CPR Overflow with an Aqualifter pump and have had alot better luck using the standard overflow's that have the u shaped tube. The only time mine has really lost a siphon was my fault, not paying attention to the prefilter for the Aqualifter or cleaning it regularly. You also have to pay attention to that little fitting that you hook the airline tubing up to, algae does grow in it and clog it, so just check it and clean it if need be. If I had to do it all over again I would buy a u shaped tube overflow, no matter how many times the power has gone out or what not I have never lost a siphon in one of those.

06/08/2009, 05:56 PM	#8
Compguy Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Elgin, IL Posts: 1,313	Ya, really, that is a great deal, I probably would have done the same! Here is the one that is shown above, Fins Furs and Feathers is basically Marinedepot.com http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewIt...ry~FICHCA.html

06/08/2009, 11:38 PM	#9
Kur Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mesa, AZ. Posts: 125	$150... One hundred fifty dollars... I swear these people are outside their minds. I would rather flood my house on principle, than spend $150 on what is obviously no more than $4 in parts. There has got to be a better way. Like, "put an elbow here with a line to here and problem solved!" Stupid me getting in to any stupid hobby that comes along. $1200 for a light? $400 for a tube full of bubbles? $60 for a bucket of salt? $150 for a flow switch? Oh yeah, lets not forget $7-$12 a pound for ROCKS. I don't care what is growing on it, it is a ROCK they pick up out of the ocean! #@%& They sure saw us commin guys. They saw us commin. sigh rant over.

06/09/2009, 11:11 AM	#11
detroit_fan Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 843	You say drilling is out, but why? It is sooooo much more reliable and most people that don't drill really wish they had. Like Scott said, the cpr will fail at some point. __________________ Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. B.Franklin We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home-T.Jefferson Current Tank Info: 125g & 29g

06/09/2009, 06:39 PM	#13
Kur Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Mesa, AZ. Posts: 125	Can't drill because of a few reasons: 1. Tank is heavy. Super heavy. Made of 3/4 glass on the bottom, 5/8 on the long sides, and 1/2 on the smaller sides. Tearing it all down (no place to put the sand and rock) and taking it outside to run water to the drill site is all but impossible given the scrawniness of my friend. (yes one friend.. the others moved out of state.. the jerks) 2. The tank is old, really old. Probably made in the mid to late 70's. Possibly early 80's. Old glass gets brittle. 3. No idea if it is tempered or not. There are no labels or stickers anywhere. 4. The tank is old, and so it is scratched. A LOT. I really want to get a replacement tank, I just can't afford it. 5. I have horrible luck. Even if the glass is not brittle or tempered, and any crackhead off the street with the shakes could probably drill it fine, if I try to drill it, it will crack. lol, unless one of you guys wants to come do it for me and assume full responsibility for whatever may happen!

06/09/2009, 07:21 PM	#14
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	OK. I thought this was a new setup. Drilling a tank that is up and running is not typically a popular option. __________________ - Scott

06/09/2009, 07:29 PM	#15
surfer0063 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 79	I say that you just get an overflow that has good reviews about not losing prime and just trust the overflow. Cause without drilling or buying a float switch, thats really your only option. Unless... you spend sometime a try to make a system that is impossible to lose prime. Then you'll be a millionaire and be able to buy your dream tank. Thats what I would do. __________________ I'm That Guy Bring a man to a fish store, he looks at fish for a couple minutes. Teach a man to marine keep, he looks at fish for a life time.

06/09/2009, 08:35 PM	#16
laugh Member of the Registry Join Date: May 2004 Location: Northeast Ohio Posts: 1,226	Just make sure that the return section of your sump does not hold a larger volume of water than your tank could hold before it overflows. In other words if the CPR fails there will be no additional water going into the sump so once the return section is empty no more water will be pumped into the tank. As long as your tank can handle this additional 5 or so gallons you should be good. You can buy one of these to protect your pump http://www.aquahub.com/store/ifloatfloatswitch.html Good luck __________________ NORK President Current Tank Info: All gone