why do we waste money on clean up crews

[sanababit]

Well, for me a clean up crew is more for showing to my friends that i have snails, crabs, stars, etc than for cleaning up, yes i know they eat left over food, some unwanted algae and detritus, that could mess up my water quality, BUT, they just dont magically dissapear, the crabs, snails, stars have to poop too thus releasing waste back into the aquarium and sinks to the sand which slowly decayes, at least fish poop floats and is skimmed out, your toughts....

Sana

[Acolin]

I also like the bio-diversity they add to the display, snails, stars, crabs and shrimp are fascinating and play a vital role in the minature eco-system...

[Grunion]

I love watching them do there thing.

[OneReef]

Just yesterday I was reading some of Steve Weasts site, and listened to his interview on ReefCast, and he was saying how he did not have much of a cleanup crew at all in his old tank, because he felt that he himself was a better member of the cleanup crew than any snail, star or crab could ever be.

[Biologist]

I like making a mini ecological system with critters at every trophic level, crabs, copepods, algae, bacteria, etc. Breakdown of fish waste is how the nutrients get to the other tank inhabitants. A tank with an energy flow of fish food enters tank-> food enters fish-> fish waste exits tank doesn't leave much to power the other life I like to watch.

And the cool thing is it works well for most people, their parameters stay perfect, and they get to see all the cool critters which reproduce and live on the amount of waste that is available.

The critters don't just excrete back the exact things they take in. While matter is not created or destroyed, it does lose massive amounts of available energy going from one trophic level to the next. To answer your question of why would you want snail poop to accumulate vs. fish poop- the snail poop that accumulates can power a lot less nuisance bacteria than the fish poop, as it has had a lot of energy removed, which the snail used to stay alive, move around, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_flow

[ddinox64]

To refine what Bio said. Their waste is more refined, not as toxic.

Besides, you're trying to replicate a reef.

[ludnix]

I have nothing against using a clean up crew, but overall I feel people go overboard with the amount of snails and hermits they put in their tanks. I'm personally down to about 5 snails in my 120, the rest is left up to the thousands of asterina stars and stomatellas that have slowly taken their place.

[silentscream]

well said biologist.

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

I think it's kinda funny that you bring this up, because I've noticed that people go WAY overboard with CUCs. I only have a few crabs and a few snails in my 90, mostly because the crabs kill off the snails. They seem to be doing the job quite well.

Personally, I don't know why we spend all that money on them, i've spent maybe $20, $30 including my urchin, snails, crabs and sand dollar combined. Oh... and my cucumbers and conch, but those are in the sump to clean up detritus and they seem VERY happy there

Just my random $0.02

[broke1]

It's hard to top what Biologist said on a purely biological level, it was well said.

I happen to like watching the clean up crew and kids like the CUC more than anything else in the tank(except Nemo and his "Dad"). We can actually keep the little ones occupied looking for crabs and shrimp and that thing that looks like yellow spiky poop(cucumber).

I just feel they are all part of the "reef" package. Without them it's just a fish tank or coral tank to me.

I for one like to overestimate my CUC and let it die back to the level that's needed.

[sanababit]

hmmm, i did not know that the poop from waht ever creature is the last on the food chain comes out cleaner than the rest, interesting

sana

[hyperfocal]

Complete agreement from me regarding the conventional wisdom on the size of clean-up crews. I've seen people add hundreds of snail & hermits to newly cycled tanks. What exactly do they expect all these critters to eat? It's a newly cycled tank for Pete's sake!! Two weeks 80% of the CUC have starved, feeding the remaining 20% with their remains.

I think it's a conspiracy on the part of LFS/CUC retailers -- 1 critter per gallon is a number I often hear tossed around. That's just money and livestock wasted.

I go in exactly the opposite direction. Start small, and let the (snail) population expand naturally to meet the available food supply. I've never had hermits breed in my tank, so I just add them a couple at a time as needed. Frankly, I'm not sure hermits are really that great as CUC members -- but they are sure fun to watch

[wooden_reefer]

They grow so a part of the algae etc becomes them. So they store N or P by growing.

[romanr]

You can't beat snails for cleaning up algae from rocks and glass. Yes the algae gets converted to snail droppings which good flow in a bare bottom tank keeps in suspension. My cleanup crew is made up of shrimp which are great at finding leftover food, snails for algae, and cucumbers for recycling the detritus that collects in a few pockets and in the sump. Hermits and crabs are a pain so I stopped keeping them.

[beachgyrl0]

I have nothing against a good clean-up crew, I believe that they do a good job cleaning up your rocks and glass. To top it off, I have a lot of fun watching them clean. :-)

[wooden_reefer]

For a fish dominant tank some of the cuc may be the secondary host to some parasites.

Without them some parasite will die off.

I am somewhat concerned.

There may be unwanted predation: if your triggerfish is big enough it may eat the snails.

[redfishsc]

The thing about common CUC members is that many of them are either short-lived or abused before they get here.


Case in point, there are some species of sea hare that show up this time of year in the LFS--- I was reading about how they show up that easily because they come shallow to spawn, and then die. I wish I had a link but the thread was here somewhere I think.

Also, snails have very sensitive systems and osmotic shock is pure terror on them. I have not had a very good track record with Astrea snails (granted I don't buy very many) but based on the 75% of them that I've bought that die within a week, I'd have to say the exporter and perhaps the LFS just dumped them in whatever, and shocked their systems.


I've had similar problems in the past with Turbos.


What I've learned about snails now is to show up at the LFS and buy when stock levels are low, and buy the snails you know have been there for a while.



The other thing that irks me is with echinoderms--- they often nearly starve in an LFS without proper food. I recently bought a tuxedo urchin that is doing fine a month later, but I was actually hesitant to buy him b/c I knew he'd been there for a month, and in the same tank was a small pile of small black spines.... gee... wonder what happened? I suspect they only fed them mysis.


He has plenty of food in my tank, for sure

[es1887]

[i] The critters don't just excrete back the exact things they take in. While matter is not created or destroyed, it does lose massive amounts of available energy going from one trophic level to the next. To answer your question of why would you want snail poop to accumulate vs. fish poop- the snail poop that accumulates can power a lot less nuisance bacteria than the fish poop, as it has had a lot of energy removed, which the snail used to stay alive, move around, etc.
[/B]

amen,

[kevantheman35]

i have them mainly for more to see in my tank. im the main worker on my clean up crew

[irfisher]

Recycled poop has less poop than when it was originally created. That makes perfect sense to me.

[JamesJR]

I think they have their merits but not all of them are useful. I am particularly not a fan of hermit crabs and most crabs in general as they are actually quite predatory and will eat a lot of things that might be beneficial in a reef tank.

[reelredfish]

So based upon this what would you folks say would be a good crew for a 180 gallon bare bottom with a ton of flow that still collects a ton of crud on the bottom?

[Bent]

I personally like the smaller critters. But I'm weird. They are more interesting for me to watch.

[Dkuhlmann]

Originally Posted by sanababit

Well, for me a clean up crew is more for showing to my friends that i have snails, crabs, stars, etc than for cleaning up, yes i know they eat left over food, some unwanted algae and detritus, that could mess up my water quality, BUT, they just dont magically dissapear, the crabs, snails, stars have to poop too thus releasing waste back into the aquarium and sinks to the sand which slowly decayes, at least fish poop floats and is skimmed out, your toughts....

Sana

They have a snail to take care of that called the Nassarius snail. They are really cool snails. They hide in the sand bed all the while cleaning out the deitrus and when you feed the tank their long sniffer nose sticks up out of the sand and next thing you know, they all pop out kind of like zombies attacking LOL Great fun to watch.

[Monte26]

Originally Posted by Dkuhlmann

they all pop out kind of like zombies attacking LOL Great fun to watch.

My fish are The Walking Dead themed with their names. I call my nassarius snails "walkers." Lol