Turf Scrubbers: why arn't they more popular?

blennymower · 07/06/2009, 03:40 PM

Found this thread on Marine Depot's forum

http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic89570-4-1.aspx

Says no skimmer or refugium needed, and will keep your nitrates and phosphates at zero. I think the claims may be a bit stretched but it does seem to be effective.

So, why isn't this common in our hobby?

Jeff · 07/06/2009, 03:51 PM

They are kind of large and chaeto is more effective in my opinion if you are tight on space. They also need regular maintenance every week.
They also have a "smell" to them, kind of like fresh ocean.

jenglish · 07/06/2009, 04:22 PM

They were more popular in the past. They can be useful in some FO or lagoonal setups. If you are trying to keep a great deal of filter feeders they can be useful. If you are going for a mixed reef or especially SPS dominant reeftop biotope they begin to lose their edge. I have fewer variables to watch and easier maintenance on my skimmer than on the ATS I ran in the past. Then you have to worry about gelbstoff, which SM will tell you doesn't have to occur if you scrape outside your system. It will be reduced but you still have to worry about gelbstoff. Is it effective? yes. Is it more trouble than it saves? for many setups yes. I will say I have seen systems run with them for more than a decade with only yearly w/c, but it all depends on what you want out of your system.

romanr · 07/06/2009, 04:29 PM

They are messy! Salt spray, regular maintenance, etc. For me a good and appropriately sized skimmer is all I need. If you want to save a few bucks and are willing to do the extra maintenance then by all means, they work well if designed properly.

blennymower · 07/06/2009, 04:39 PM

Jenglish what's gelbstoff?

johnike · 07/06/2009, 04:55 PM

I have an accidental scrubber in the chaeto section of my sump. Harvest it when it offends me stinky wise, but a great free addition to the downstairs plumbing as far as I'm concerned. I'll get a pic up when I'm back in the big city tomorrow! It grows on the acrylic baffle before entering the refugium.

eros · 07/06/2009, 05:22 PM

My LFS set one up. It's a small one in a 5 gallon bucket hooked up to a 400 gallon system. He still runs a Deltec skimmer on the tank. He said it works but isn't enough for his entire system, which I would expect. I think he did it as a show and tell sort of thing which I think is very smart. It's better than having the attitude of "we don't sell it so it doesn't work" which is the attitude of most stores I've visited.

Dustin1231 · 07/06/2009, 05:30 PM

i just started one sunday.. havent checked it yet today...

ReefWreak · 07/06/2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blennymower
Jenglish what's gelbstoff?

It's yellowing of the water that was noticed in German aquariums back in the early days of reefing. It blocks out the light and probably effects other things too, but most noticible, it makes the water yellow. It's yellowing compounds released by algae, and it's what made the biggest push for aquarists to start using carbon in their systems, because it would reduce the amount of yellowing.

jenglish · 07/06/2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ReefWreak
It's yellowing of the water that was noticed in German aquariums back in the early days of reefing. It blocks out the light and probably effects other things too, but most noticible, it makes the water yellow. It's yellowing compounds released by algae, and it's what made the biggest push for aquarists to start using carbon in their systems, because it would reduce the amount of yellowing.

Yeah, what he said

Folks used to harvest in system and it accumulated very quickly. If you harvest outside it accumulates more slowly but it is still released as one algae outcompetes another and cells breakdown. The nutrients released will be reabsorbed by other algae but not gelbstoff. It can be absorbed by GAC though.

noahm · 07/06/2009, 08:24 PM

The main drawback has been touched on here, and that is maintenance. People clean their skimmers once a week, but I think it just seems like more work to properly maintain and AS. The other drawback is the space above your sump required if you do not have a bucket type system. There needs to be wet, but not submerged algae with certain volume of water flowing over it to work properly. There is a huge thread somewhere on the internet about it, and you just have to weigh all the considerations. If I had a fish room, I would implement one, but just don't have the 'extra' room in the sump area to fool around with. It will work though.

blennymower · 07/06/2009, 08:50 PM

Yeah, it sounds like an effective method to control nutrients but I also don't have the space to implement.

Thanks everyone.

ludnix · 07/06/2009, 08:57 PM

If I ran a larger system I definitely would run one. I think their concept is very cool and I'd have a lot of fun trying to design one.

07/06/2009, 03:40 PM	#1
blennymower Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,477	Turf Scrubbers: why arn't they more popular? Found this thread on Marine Depot's forum http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic89570-4-1.aspx Says no skimmer or refugium needed, and will keep your nitrates and phosphates at zero. I think the claims may be a bit stretched but it does seem to be effective. So, why isn't this common in our hobby? __________________ Check out my tank. Current Tank Info: 30G Nano Rimless

07/06/2009, 03:51 PM	#2
Jeff Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 11,907	They are kind of large and chaeto is more effective in my opinion if you are tight on space. They also need regular maintenance every week. They also have a "smell" to them, kind of like fresh ocean. __________________ Always remember.... any time you reef, you also reef with every reefer that reefer has reefed with. Mitch 2/18/10 IWNFT343F Current Tank Info: Innovative Marine 20 Last edited by Jeff; 07/06/2009 at 04:13 PM.

07/06/2009, 04:22 PM	#3
jenglish Marquis de Carabas Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,523	They were more popular in the past. They can be useful in some FO or lagoonal setups. If you are trying to keep a great deal of filter feeders they can be useful. If you are going for a mixed reef or especially SPS dominant reeftop biotope they begin to lose their edge. I have fewer variables to watch and easier maintenance on my skimmer than on the ATS I ran in the past. Then you have to worry about gelbstoff, which SM will tell you doesn't have to occur if you scrape outside your system. It will be reduced but you still have to worry about gelbstoff. Is it effective? yes. Is it more trouble than it saves? for many setups yes. I will say I have seen systems run with them for more than a decade with only yearly w/c, but it all depends on what you want out of your system. __________________ Jeremy Brown liquor never hurt anybody “Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse" Pierre-Simon Laplace I should want to cook him a simple meal, but I shouldn't want to cut into him, to tear the flesh, to wear the flesh, to be born unto new worlds where his flesh becomes my key. Current Tank Info: broken and dry

07/06/2009, 04:29 PM	#4
romanr Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ocala, Florida Posts: 1,568	They are messy! Salt spray, regular maintenance, etc. For me a good and appropriately sized skimmer is all I need. If you want to save a few bucks and are willing to do the extra maintenance then by all means, they work well if designed properly. __________________ Raul Roman Marion Ocala Reef Enthusiasts (MORE) member Check us out on FB and RC. Current Tank Info: 150 DD cube mixed reef, 30G sump, Eshopps S-150 cone skimmer, 400W Radium MH, 156W Wavepoint T5, Internet accessible ACIII controller , Vortech MP10 w/ Icecap battery backup, Mini-Arctica chiller, Katalyst fueled reactor fed to Octopus BH800S skimmer

07/06/2009, 04:39 PM	#5
blennymower Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,477	Jenglish what's gelbstoff? __________________ Check out my tank. Current Tank Info: 30G Nano Rimless

07/06/2009, 04:55 PM	#6
johnike Moved On Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bureau County Illinois Posts: 5,406	I have an accidental scrubber in the chaeto section of my sump. Harvest it when it offends me stinky wise, but a great free addition to the downstairs plumbing as far as I'm concerned. I'll get a pic up when I'm back in the big city tomorrow! It grows on the acrylic baffle before entering the refugium.

07/06/2009, 05:22 PM	#7
eros Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Reno, Nevada Posts: 878	My LFS set one up. It's a small one in a 5 gallon bucket hooked up to a 400 gallon system. He still runs a Deltec skimmer on the tank. He said it works but isn't enough for his entire system, which I would expect. I think he did it as a show and tell sort of thing which I think is very smart. It's better than having the attitude of "we don't sell it so it doesn't work" which is the attitude of most stores I've visited.

07/06/2009, 05:30 PM	#8
Dustin1231 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Wichita Kansas Posts: 260	i just started one sunday.. havent checked it yet today... __________________ WOW, never thought id spend more money on a fish tank then a motorcycle... Current Tank Info: a 12 nano and 120 mixed started on June 16 2007

07/06/2009, 08:24 PM	#11
noahm Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 2,736	The main drawback has been touched on here, and that is maintenance. People clean their skimmers once a week, but I think it just seems like more work to properly maintain and AS. The other drawback is the space above your sump required if you do not have a bucket type system. There needs to be wet, but not submerged algae with certain volume of water flowing over it to work properly. There is a huge thread somewhere on the internet about it, and you just have to weigh all the considerations. If I had a fish room, I would implement one, but just don't have the 'extra' room in the sump area to fool around with. It will work though.

07/06/2009, 08:50 PM	#12
blennymower Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, Florida Posts: 1,477	Yeah, it sounds like an effective method to control nutrients but I also don't have the space to implement. Thanks everyone. __________________ Check out my tank. Current Tank Info: 30G Nano Rimless

07/06/2009, 08:57 PM	#13
ludnix Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: California Posts: 3,031	If I ran a larger system I definitely would run one. I think their concept is very cool and I'd have a lot of fun trying to design one. __________________ -Eric Sutter Current Tank Info: 14g Biocube