My sump design

davez104 · 07/23/2009, 01:28 AM

Hi all,

I am in the process of upgrading to a 4x2.5x2 tank and am working out all the different aspects that need to be designed. The sump will be aprox 4x2x 18 inches high. There is a pic and explanation of what I have planned so far. The display will be predominantly SPS reef.

The first section will house the skimmer pump, and will probably be fitted with filter socks to stop debris collecting in here.

The water enters from the display, then flows over the sectioned Deep Sand Bed. I've partitioned it like that so that I have the option of pulling 1/3 of the sand bed out every 12 to 18 months to replace or clean it, without destroying the sand bed. Hopefully this will help avoid any problems down the track.

Next is a refugium that will have some live rock and maybe macro algae. I have had no luck growing it in my current setup, but will have another go.

Next is a frag section. I'll be able to hang a 150W hallide over the top and stick a circulation pump in there as well.

The last section will house the return pump, heaters, auto top off, probes etc. There will also be room for a second pump should I decide to plumb in a dedicated frag tank.

Any feed back appreciated. Any ideas or extra things that I should incorporate, let me know, I'll take it on board.

Cheers,
Dave.

addicted2reefin · 07/23/2009, 07:05 AM

i wouod make the intake a little bit bigger so u can have room for a skimmer, should u decide to go that route, also i dont like the deep sand bed idea, if u do do it i would put some filter pads before it so detritus does not enter the sand bed. a remote sand bed is much better suited for a 5 gallon bucket

PaxRoma · 07/23/2009, 09:00 AM

why dont you integrate the refugium and the DSB into one? I dont think it necessarily has to be 2 separate parts. That way you'll get a little more room. Also I dont know if you really need to replace the DSB every year because whatever detritus get into the DSB will be consumed by the critters that live there.

davez104 · 07/23/2009, 04:58 PM

The skimmer is a custom built external beckett, it is quite large and won't be living in the sump any time soon. That section will only need to house the skimmer feed pump.

I am going to run filter socks on the drains from the display, so I don't think filter pads would be of much advantage. Is there a reason that remote DSB's are recommended over having one in the sump? It would seem to be much neater to have it all in one place.

From what I have read, having live rock/macro on top of the DSB will only help to trap detritus. This may or may not be problem, depending on the system I guess. I figured that seeing as I have the room to spare, I may as well do them separately.

I don't know either if the sand bed should be replaced at all, just thought it would be good to have that option without destroying the entire sand bed.

Thanks for the replies, keep em coming.

Dave.

dennisdeng2002 · 07/23/2009, 06:26 PM

This might be a stupid question, but I'm assuming the pump you're going to use is a submersible and doesn't look like the one in the rendering right? Because that is clearly a external pump.

davez104 · 07/23/2009, 06:31 PM

Yes, it's a laguna 7500, 2000GPH in your money. It will also feed the chiller, calcium reactor and two fluid bed filters.

The pic of the Reeflo pump was all I could find at the time.

Cheers,
Dave.

addicted2reefin · 07/23/2009, 07:33 PM

a dsb should be cryptic/no light, for best effect to my knowledge. light may leak from the fuge to dsb. also a 5 gallon buckets will give u less surface area, meaning less sand used and a 5 gallon bucket will be more than enough up to 150 gallon tank. it will be cheaper than making the sump that big just to incorporate the dsb. also u could use the extra room in the sump for more cheato. if ur hell bent on putting the dsb in the sump there is nothing too wrong with it, but to save on cost, and better efficiency a 5 gallon bucket would be better.

davez104 · 07/23/2009, 08:29 PM

Ok. There seems to be different ways of doing things on different sides of the ocean. Always good to get lots of different opinions and ideas. Over here in Australia, most reefers incorporate the DSB into the sump. They also tend to separate the refugium from the DSB.

I'll have a troll through some of the successful tanks here on RC and see how they are doing things.

I would still like to keep the DSB as part of the sump, just to keep things tidy, so might be able to look at blocking all light from that area if it is deemed to be the superior method.

Thanks for your input.

Dave.

PaxRoma · 07/23/2009, 11:10 PM

If you are concerning about LR trapping detritus if placed in DSB I dont think this would be a problem. LR is actually a haven for pods to consume detritus.
About having macroalgae in DSB, Julian Sprung mentioned in his vol 3 book that the roots of macro helps oxygenate the sand bed if they are rooted in it.

davez104 · 07/24/2009, 03:57 AM

Just out of interest, what is the reasoning for the DSB to be kept in the dark? Some say keep it in the dark, some say algae growing on top is beneficial, but for that light would be required.

So many options, which way to turn??

Dave.

suta4242 · 07/24/2009, 04:23 AM

Is the DSB just for denitrification? Then I'd use a RDSB x 2. Personally I keep mine in the display for various reasons - maybe no good for you if you want very high flow in there.

If you want a fully functioning DSB then you won't want it to act as a nutrient sink. I think thats when they're more likely to crash or if they don't have an array of critters living in it. Maintaining biodiversity in the bed is critical IMO.

I can understand you pre empting trouble by regularly removing a third but you can achieve that just as easily if its in a bin or two beside the tank. I suppose you'd need to disguise that though?

I wouldn't grow macro on top because it may compete with the DSB. Then theres the detritus issue. Fine if critters deal with that, but if at some stage you don't have enough of them, then what? Finally, if you want to export macro do it in a separate fuge.

good luck!

davez104 · 07/24/2009, 04:36 AM

Yes, the DSB is for detrification. I plan to have some pretty serious flow in the display, so don't want to put it up there. I don't really like the idea of remote DSBs as I don't see the point of having them remote when they don't need to be. It's just one more thing that needs to be disguised outside of the cabinet. My skimmer will be outside the cabinet as it's a touch over 3' tall and would just be a nuisance in the sump. My calcium reactor will more than likely be external as well as it is quite large also. If there is a genuine reason for the DSB to be done remotely, then I guess the Ca reactor could go in the sump. I guess it would mean feeding the RDSB from the overflow, then flowing to the entry point into the sump?

I intend to keep the macro/refugium seperate from the DSB, however it ends up being build.

Cheers,
Dave.

07/23/2009, 01:28 AM	#1
davez104 Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Beautiful Central Queensland, Australia Posts: 205	My sump design Hi all, I am in the process of upgrading to a 4x2.5x2 tank and am working out all the different aspects that need to be designed. The sump will be aprox 4x2x 18 inches high. There is a pic and explanation of what I have planned so far. The display will be predominantly SPS reef. The first section will house the skimmer pump, and will probably be fitted with filter socks to stop debris collecting in here. The water enters from the display, then flows over the sectioned Deep Sand Bed. I've partitioned it like that so that I have the option of pulling 1/3 of the sand bed out every 12 to 18 months to replace or clean it, without destroying the sand bed. Hopefully this will help avoid any problems down the track. Next is a refugium that will have some live rock and maybe macro algae. I have had no luck growing it in my current setup, but will have another go. Next is a frag section. I'll be able to hang a 150W hallide over the top and stick a circulation pump in there as well. The last section will house the return pump, heaters, auto top off, probes etc. There will also be room for a second pump should I decide to plumb in a dedicated frag tank. Any feed back appreciated. Any ideas or extra things that I should incorporate, let me know, I'll take it on board. Cheers, Dave.

07/23/2009, 04:58 PM	#4
davez104 Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Beautiful Central Queensland, Australia Posts: 205	The skimmer is a custom built external beckett, it is quite large and won't be living in the sump any time soon. That section will only need to house the skimmer feed pump. I am going to run filter socks on the drains from the display, so I don't think filter pads would be of much advantage. Is there a reason that remote DSB's are recommended over having one in the sump? It would seem to be much neater to have it all in one place. From what I have read, having live rock/macro on top of the DSB will only help to trap detritus. This may or may not be problem, depending on the system I guess. I figured that seeing as I have the room to spare, I may as well do them separately. I don't know either if the sand bed should be replaced at all, just thought it would be good to have that option without destroying the entire sand bed. Thanks for the replies, keep em coming. Dave. __________________ 150gal closed loop SPS reef - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1736777 Current Tank Info: 700L total system volume, mega beckett skimmer, DSB, Cal reactor, 2 x 400W Icecaps in Lumenbright reflectors, Fishbowl moonlight computer, carbon and ecophos in FBFs. Flow via mega closed loop ;)

07/23/2009, 06:31 PM	#6
davez104 Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Beautiful Central Queensland, Australia Posts: 205	Yes, it's a laguna 7500, 2000GPH in your money. It will also feed the chiller, calcium reactor and two fluid bed filters. The pic of the Reeflo pump was all I could find at the time. Cheers, Dave. __________________ 150gal closed loop SPS reef - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1736777 Current Tank Info: 700L total system volume, mega beckett skimmer, DSB, Cal reactor, 2 x 400W Icecaps in Lumenbright reflectors, Fishbowl moonlight computer, carbon and ecophos in FBFs. Flow via mega closed loop ;)

07/23/2009, 08:29 PM	#8
davez104 Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Beautiful Central Queensland, Australia Posts: 205	Ok. There seems to be different ways of doing things on different sides of the ocean. Always good to get lots of different opinions and ideas. Over here in Australia, most reefers incorporate the DSB into the sump. They also tend to separate the refugium from the DSB. I'll have a troll through some of the successful tanks here on RC and see how they are doing things. I would still like to keep the DSB as part of the sump, just to keep things tidy, so might be able to look at blocking all light from that area if it is deemed to be the superior method. Thanks for your input. Dave. __________________ 150gal closed loop SPS reef - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1736777 Current Tank Info: 700L total system volume, mega beckett skimmer, DSB, Cal reactor, 2 x 400W Icecaps in Lumenbright reflectors, Fishbowl moonlight computer, carbon and ecophos in FBFs. Flow via mega closed loop ;)

07/24/2009, 03:57 AM	#10
davez104 Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Beautiful Central Queensland, Australia Posts: 205	Just out of interest, what is the reasoning for the DSB to be kept in the dark? Some say keep it in the dark, some say algae growing on top is beneficial, but for that light would be required. So many options, which way to turn?? Dave. __________________ 150gal closed loop SPS reef - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1736777 Current Tank Info: 700L total system volume, mega beckett skimmer, DSB, Cal reactor, 2 x 400W Icecaps in Lumenbright reflectors, Fishbowl moonlight computer, carbon and ecophos in FBFs. Flow via mega closed loop ;)

07/23/2009, 07:05 AM	#2
addicted2reefin Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: hell, delaware Posts: 628	i wouod make the intake a little bit bigger so u can have room for a skimmer, should u decide to go that route, also i dont like the deep sand bed idea, if u do do it i would put some filter pads before it so detritus does not enter the sand bed. a remote sand bed is much better suited for a 5 gallon bucket

07/23/2009, 09:00 AM	#3
PaxRoma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: H town, TX Posts: 421	why dont you integrate the refugium and the DSB into one? I dont think it necessarily has to be 2 separate parts. That way you'll get a little more room. Also I dont know if you really need to replace the DSB every year because whatever detritus get into the DSB will be consumed by the critters that live there.

07/23/2009, 06:26 PM	#5
dennisdeng2002 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 57	This might be a stupid question, but I'm assuming the pump you're going to use is a submersible and doesn't look like the one in the rendering right? Because that is clearly a external pump.

07/23/2009, 07:33 PM	#7
addicted2reefin Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: hell, delaware Posts: 628	a dsb should be cryptic/no light, for best effect to my knowledge. light may leak from the fuge to dsb. also a 5 gallon buckets will give u less surface area, meaning less sand used and a 5 gallon bucket will be more than enough up to 150 gallon tank. it will be cheaper than making the sump that big just to incorporate the dsb. also u could use the extra room in the sump for more cheato. if ur hell bent on putting the dsb in the sump there is nothing too wrong with it, but to save on cost, and better efficiency a 5 gallon bucket would be better.

07/23/2009, 11:10 PM	#9
PaxRoma Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: H town, TX Posts: 421	If you are concerning about LR trapping detritus if placed in DSB I dont think this would be a problem. LR is actually a haven for pods to consume detritus. About having macroalgae in DSB, Julian Sprung mentioned in his vol 3 book that the roots of macro helps oxygenate the sand bed if they are rooted in it.

07/24/2009, 04:23 AM	#11
suta4242 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: sydney, australia Posts: 634	Is the DSB just for denitrification? Then I'd use a RDSB x 2. Personally I keep mine in the display for various reasons - maybe no good for you if you want very high flow in there. If you want a fully functioning DSB then you won't want it to act as a nutrient sink. I think thats when they're more likely to crash or if they don't have an array of critters living in it. Maintaining biodiversity in the bed is critical IMO. I can understand you pre empting trouble by regularly removing a third but you can achieve that just as easily if its in a bin or two beside the tank. I suppose you'd need to disguise that though? I wouldn't grow macro on top because it may compete with the DSB. Then theres the detritus issue. Fine if critters deal with that, but if at some stage you don't have enough of them, then what? Finally, if you want to export macro do it in a separate fuge. good luck!

07/24/2009, 04:36 AM	#12
davez104 Registered Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Beautiful Central Queensland, Australia Posts: 205	Yes, the DSB is for detrification. I plan to have some pretty serious flow in the display, so don't want to put it up there. I don't really like the idea of remote DSBs as I don't see the point of having them remote when they don't need to be. It's just one more thing that needs to be disguised outside of the cabinet. My skimmer will be outside the cabinet as it's a touch over 3' tall and would just be a nuisance in the sump. My calcium reactor will more than likely be external as well as it is quite large also. If there is a genuine reason for the DSB to be done remotely, then I guess the Ca reactor could go in the sump. I guess it would mean feeding the RDSB from the overflow, then flowing to the entry point into the sump? I intend to keep the macro/refugium seperate from the DSB, however it ends up being build. Cheers, Dave. __________________ 150gal closed loop SPS reef - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1736777 Current Tank Info: 700L total system volume, mega beckett skimmer, DSB, Cal reactor, 2 x 400W Icecaps in Lumenbright reflectors, Fishbowl moonlight computer, carbon and ecophos in FBFs. Flow via mega closed loop ;)