ATB 840 vs Royal exclusiv Alpha 170

[Joel A]

title just about says it all...

the royal exclusiv looks solid, but it's newer so i've been able to find way more information on the ATB then the Alpha 170...

price is close to the same on both of them... although saving a bit of money is never a bad thing..

it will be going on a 100 gallon tank with ~40 gallons of sump water, mainly SPS corals and a moderate to heavy fish load...

i need it to be consistent, well made, quiet, and a work horse... i think with the reputation and the amount of money involved they both fit that mold... but not sure which one makes more sense.

Thanks.

[moondoggy4]

One thing to think about is the cost of the pumps, replacement parts and the ease of getting them. Premium price = premium service.

[Joel A]

well as far as i know service behind both of them is great, i know some owners of bubble king/royal exclusiv and they all love the things and have only good things to say about customer service.. i don't know anyone with an ATB personally, but have read many threads here about how they too have great products and customer service...

as far as cost of parts... i'm assuming the red dragon pump on the alpha 170 is more expensive than the custom sicce on the ATB... but then again i could be wrong. How do those pumps compare anyways? I'm betting air wise they are both pretty similar... but what about noise, start up issues, reliability and build quality?

[vanillagorila]

I vote for for the ATB 840. It's proven there are lots of people out the with lots of pictures of black nasty nog. Every picture I've seen of peoples 170 the skim looks like water, really wet.

[luvreefs23]

my votes for the 840 also, temporarily using a atb 840 on my 90 with 20 gallon sump made me buy a atb 1050a for my new 250. I take care of a few tanks for people and have 2 bubble kings on 2 of them tanks and they are both about even when it comes to performance. Also if u want fancyness get the atb 840 version 1.5, its literally set and forget. I adjusted the 840 i had on my 90 twice...both adjustments were made within the first 2 days of putting it in the sump. I didnt have to touch it after that for 3 months until i took it out to put it in the sump it was originally purchased for.

Dennis

[DarG]

There is an Alpha skimmer club thread in the Premium Aquatics forum. Lots of info and answers there.
Remember, these are basically new. You will find more info for the ATB since they have been out longer.

I can tell you that the build of the Alpha's is absolutely top end and they are dead silent and no bubbles out the return/output.

You will have a hard time finding unbiased info from owners of either skimmer. It's human nature to defend a 650 dollar and up skimmer purchase and there arent many people who have already bought one or the other who arent going to defend their purchase.

I think that the jury is still out on the Alphas until they have been in use by more reefers so that some real feedback can come in. That makes the ATB the safer bet for the time being. And I just bought an Alpha so thats as honest as I can be. I had little interest in the ATB for my own reasons but its general knowledge that they perform extremely well.

Good luck

[Joel A]

Originally posted by DarG
There is an Alpha skimmer club thread in the Premium Aquatics forum. Lots of info and answers there.
Remember, these are basically new. You will find more info for the ATB since they have been out longer.

I can tell you that the build of the Alpha's is absolutely top end and they are dead silent and no bubbles out the return/output.

You will have a hard time finding unbiased info from owners of either skimmer. It's human nature to defend a 650 dollar and up skimmer purchase and there arent many people who have already bought one or the other who arent going to defend their purchase.

I think that the jury is still out on the Alphas until they have been in use by more reefers so that some real feedback can come in. That makes the ATB the safer bet for the time being. And I just bought an Alpha so thats as honest as I can be. I had little interest in the ATB for my own reasons but its general knowledge that they perform extremely well.

Good luck

yup, i agree.. i even mentioned that in my first post that there is more information on ATB then there is on the alpha skimmers..

mind sharing what your reason was to go with royal exclusiv over ATB, even if it doesn't necessarily pertain to me?

[luther1200]

Have you seen the thread in the Premium Aquatics forum where there is a ATB 840 Vs. a Vertex ??? (not sure which one it was). Its pretty amazing how evenly matched they were, considering the huge difference in price. If you havent seen it check it out.

[vanillagorila]

Originally posted by luther1200
Have you seen the thread in the Premium Aquatics forum where there is a ATB 840 Vs. a Vertex ??? (not sure which one it was). Its pretty amazing how evenly matched they were, considering the huge difference in price. If you havent seen it check it out.

I wouldn't take that comparison as gospel. IMO the person who posted it is really biased toward vertex/RE alpha and doesn't seem to sell ATB anymore.

[Jeremy B.]

Originally posted by vanillagorila
I wouldn't take that comparison as gospel. IMO the person who posted it is really biased toward vertex/RE alpha and doesn't seem to sell ATB anymore.

Actually, that test was as unbiased as it could get. I have tested many skimmers over the years, and have ran just about every one of them available in the hobby. The IN-100 ran right neck and neck, and possibly just a bit better than the ATB 840. If you have an 840, or anyone else on here that does, I have a demo model that I'd be happy to ship you and do the comparison yourself.

The ATB's are good skimmers, so are the Alpha's, WM's, etc. What a lot of people don't understand, and I've talked to Mojo about this a hundred times, is that you don't have to spend $700 or more to have a great skimmer. We've shared many conversations over the phone on how you can get a skimmer for $250 or less that will perform just as well as these higher priced skimmers will. I can tell you that Vertex IN-180 will perform just as well as what an Alpha 170 will, and maybe just a little better. Look at the old Reeflo Orca 250 for example. That skimmer retailed for around $1200, and performed just as well, if not better, than a Bubble King 250 or 300ext would, and it was less than half the cost of the BK's.

Having said all of this, a beckett skimmer with a well matched pump for the size of the body will run circles around these high dollar European imports as long as we're comparing similar sizes. And those beckett skimmers generally come in at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost. Granted, they are a bit more difficult to dial in, and the pumps will most likely pull quite a bit more power.

[celano]

Personally I wouldn't buy the BK for two reasons.
1. Every time I see Klaus post on the boards he comes across as arrogant, condescending, and demeaning.
2. The same can be said for RE, especially when you have a problem with your skimmer. Their CS skills are lacking to say the least.
My advice, go with the ATB. You'll be glad you did.

[Joel A]

Originally posted by celano
Personally I wouldn't buy the BK for two reasons.
1. Every time I see Klaus post on the boards he comes across as arrogant, condescending, and demeaning.
2. The same can be said for RE, especially when you have a problem with your skimmer. Their CS skills are lacking to say the least.
My advice, go with the ATB. You'll be glad you did.

well PA sells the royal exclusiv skimmers, and they have good customer service... so isn't that more important than royal exclusiv's customer service?

as far as Klaus, i was under the impression he didn't speak much English? could the tones of his posts be misunderstood because he's poor with the language?

[DarG]

Originally posted by Joander123
yup, i agree.. i even mentioned that in my first post that there is more information on ATB then there is on the alpha skimmers..

mind sharing what your reason was to go with royal exclusiv over ATB, even if it doesn't necessarily pertain to me?

To put it simply ... My opinion of the relative value/price. There are obviously specifics behind that opinion but they arent necessarily important to anyone else. And again, this takes NOTHING away from the performance of the skimmer. They are simply my own value judgements of which we all must personally make on any signifigant purchase. I dont mean to be too cryptic but I wont get involved in a skimmer brand war. Reefers take their skimmer choice very seriously

[Paulairduck]

Originally posted by Jeremy B.
Actually, that test was as unbiased as it could get. I have tested many skimmers over the years, and have ran just about every one of them available in the hobby. The IN-100 ran right neck and neck, and possibly just a bit better than the ATB 840. If you have an 840, or anyone else on here that does, I have a demo model that I'd be happy to ship you and do the comparison yourself.

The ATB's are good skimmers, so are the Alpha's, WM's, etc. What a lot of people don't understand, and I've talked to Mojo about this a hundred times, is that you don't have to spend $700 or more to have a great skimmer. We've shared many conversations over the phone on how you can get a skimmer for $250 or less that will perform just as well as these higher priced skimmers will. I can tell you that Vertex IN-180 will perform just as well as what an Alpha 170 will, and maybe just a little better. Look at the old Reeflo Orca 250 for example. That skimmer retailed for around $1200, and performed just as well, if not better, than a Bubble King 250 or 300ext would, and it was less than half the cost of the BK's.

Having said all of this, a beckett skimmer with a well matched pump for the size of the body will run circles around these high dollar European imports as long as we're comparing similar sizes. And those beckett skimmers generally come in at 1/2 to 1/3 the cost. Granted, they are a bit more difficult to dial in, and the pumps will most likely pull quite a bit more power.

you are right on with the beckett skimmer, they pull some nasty stuff, and just flat out skim, this is coming from someone on his 4th bubbleking

[DarG]

Originally posted by Joander123

as far as Klaus, i was under the impression he didn't speak much English? could the tones of his posts be misunderstood because he's poor with the language?

I dont know the man and I havent personally conversed with him but it is extremely evident to me that English isnt his strong point at all. And reading and writing a foreign language is much tougher than speaking it. When I read some of his posts, It is clear to me that there is often much lost in the translation. And I also think that there are some people that are cleary smart enough to realize this as well, yet they take full advantage of his lack of fluency in technical discussions. Hey, I guess you either see through it all to what is really going on or you dont.

[celano]

Originally posted by Joander123
well PA sells the royal exclusiv skimmers, and they have good customer service... so isn't that more important than royal exclusiv's customer service?

No.

Originally posted by Joander123
as far as Klaus, i was under the impression he didn't speak much English? could the tones of his posts be misunderstood because he's poor with the language?

Once again no. Read through his old posts with an open mind....Lost in translation or not....the guys just rude.

[Joel A]

Originally posted by celano
No.

Once again no. Read through his old posts with an open mind....Lost in translation or not....the guys just rude.

well in what situation would i be dealing with royal exclusiv directly and not the retailer (premium aquatics) ?

Also, that's fine if you think he's rude.. he very well could be i haven't seen him around much or tried to talk with him at all... but that doesn't mean he doesn't design great skimmers..

one thing i just found out about the ATB that i do really like though is the skimmer cup drain line, correct me if i'm wrong.. but the alpha cones don't have cup drains?

[Joel A]

oops just kidding, the alpha's have drains as well.. lol

[vanillagorila]

Originally posted by Joander123
well in what situation would i be dealing with royal exclusiv directly and not the retailer

I had a couple of tunze 6045's, the c-clips that hold them in place broke. I posted up in the tunze forum what happened and Roger sent me two new ones. later I had a 6055 that was making a clicking noise, I posted, Roger sent me a new drive unit.

with my ATB I broke by mistake, it was clearly my fault. I pm'd Victor to ask how much a replacement would be and he sent it to me for free with instructions on how not to break the new one.

the retailer (I'm in no way speaking of PA) is only there for a short while after you make the purchase. after that all they will do is answer questions and help get you to the manufacture. it they are the one's you have to deal with regarding warrantee issues.

thats why when it came time to add some more powerheads, I went with Tunze. and when I need to buy another skimmer I'll buy a ATB.

[Joel A]

Originally posted by vanillagorila
I had a couple of tunze 6045's, the c-clips that hold them in place broke. I posted up in the tunze forum what happened and Roger sent me two new ones. later I had a 6055 that was making a clicking noise, I posted, Roger sent me a new drive unit.

with my ATB I broke by mistake, it was clearly my fault. I pm'd Victor to ask how much a replacement would be and he sent it to me for free with instructions on how not to break the new one.

the retailer (I'm in no way speaking of PA) is only there for a short while after you make the purchase. after that all they will do is answer questions and help get you to the manufacture. it they are the one's you have to deal with regarding warrantee issues.

thats why when it came time to add some more powerheads, I went with Tunze. and when I need to buy another skimmer I'll buy a ATB.

that's a good point, i hadn't really thought about it like that..


another interesting thouht i just had.. 700 lph on the ATB 850 seems relatively weak?

[vanillagorila]

you can use the large ppw and it will do around 900-950.

[Joel A]

ohh ok, that makes it very similar to the red dragon on the alpha 170 then...

wow i'm really torn on this one they both seem to be great skimmers, and pretty evenly matched

[143gadgets]

To Everyone
You all need to take a chill pill. EVERY time this subject comes up it's like you all are too proud to admit that something might be better than the brand u support. Each one has it's drawbacks and each one has it's advantages. I mean seriously there is no one brand that is better in every way than the next.

To Joander
For your sized tank I think either will do a heck of a job. The only difference i can say is that the BK is a bit quieter. Other than than you should be fine with either one.

[vanillagorila]

143gadgets has had both. he would be the best one to ask.

[James77]

I use the ATB 840, and recently upgraded to the larege purple pinwheel. Airflow obviously went up, plus the bubbles are finer and there seems to be even less turbulence in the neck. The pump is very quiet, inaudible outside the stand. The air intake has a slight hiss, even with the silence, but again- is inaudible outside the stand.
I bought this when they first came out, ~$200 more expensive and you cannot break the body down for cleaning- you can on the new ones. Performance is great, it was pulling nasty sludge when i first set up the tank. I have it set for wet skimming right now, as i have a very low bioload. As for skimmers in general, I will be sticking with cones as well as with ATB.