RO/DI expxectation

mudplo · 08/09/2009, 04:53 PM

Hey all,

I have a 65-gallon setup and am starting to bristle at running to the LFS weekly to get RO water. Still, the world of RO/DI equipments seems vast, and I'm concerned that I might spend too much, or else get too little.

Considering that this filter will only be used for the aquariums (one 65, one 24) the 50 GPD stuff seems a bit excessive...am I missing something here?

Additionally, I'm getting lost on the value of a 4- vs. 5-stage filter.

Ultimately, I'd like to get a good filter without spending more than I need to. I don't see my ambitions growing to anything more than a 125-gallon tank at most for at least a few years, so that no worries for now about buying for upgrades down the line.

Are some of these $150 models I'm seeing out there going to be sufficient? Do I need that fifth stage?

Thanks again for any and all help.

-- clint

badwrasse · 08/09/2009, 04:58 PM

a 4 stage will bring your waters tds (total dissolved solids) down to the 90's a 5 stage will bring them to 0 the lower the better the 5 stage has the DI the 4 does not you definitely want the 5 stage you can find them for around $180-200

langtudatinh01 · 08/09/2009, 05:02 PM

you could go here for more information. His price is reasonable too.

http://www.melevsreef.com/shop/index.html

Misled · 08/09/2009, 05:11 PM

The only thing I don't know is the quality of the water at your tap. Thinking it may be at 300TDS or lower, you "may" not need the 5th stage. Don't get all caught up in the numbers as any quality RO/DI unit will work fine. Go to the sponsers tab at the top of the page and check The Filter Guys, SpectraPure and Buckeye Field Supplies.

Notice I said 'Quality". IMO stay away from ebay's units unless you are sure of the supplier. Alot of them use cheep housings that may work fine for a little while but break after a couple years.

My very old, (over ten years), Kent unit at 35 GPD works fine, but you will want more than 35GPD. Remember per day is 24 hours. When I want to do a 15 gal water change, it takes over 8 hours to make the water. In colder temps even longer.

kube · 08/09/2009, 05:20 PM

man ......i bought mine off sleeve bay for 100 shipped and a year later on the same filters and membrane still testing 0 tds

its says it gets 100 gpd.....but in reality it only gets 50 GPD, but do i care? NO! For 100 bucks i couldn't be happier

water before filter water tests at 400+ TDS

badwrasse · 08/09/2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kube
man ......i bought mine off sleeve bay for 100 shipped and a year later on the same filters and membrane still testing 0 tds

its says it gets 100 gpd.....but in reality it only gets 50 GPD, but do i care? NO! For 100 bucks i couldn't be happier

water before filter water tests at 400+ TDS

sounds like you need a booster pump

badwrasse · 08/09/2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Misled
The only thing I don't know is the quality of the water at your tap. Thinking it may be at 300TDS or lower, you "may" not need the 5th stage. Don't get all caught up in the numbers as any quality RO/DI unit will work fine. Go to the sponsers tab at the top of the page and check The Filter Guys, SpectraPure and Buckeye Field Supplies.

Notice I said 'Quality". IMO stay away from ebay's units unless you are sure of the supplier. Alot of them use cheep housings that may work fine for a little while but break after a couple years.

My very old, (over ten years), Kent unit at 35 GPD works fine, but you will want more than 35GPD. Remember per day is 24 hours. When I want to do a 15 gal water change, it takes over 8 hours to make the water. In colder temps even longer.

never seen a 4 stage DI before
is talking about RO vs. RO/DI

badwrasse · 08/09/2009, 05:30 PM

oh and hey neighbor check out the SLASH in the area club section forums alot of guys are getting out of the hobby so from time to time the have used ones

Misled · 08/09/2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by badwrasse
never seen a 4 stage DI before

1st stage sediment
2nd stage carbon block
3rd stage RO membrain
4th stage DI

http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/Va...stem-p151.html

badwrasse · 08/09/2009, 05:49 PM

most have seen either have two carbon or two sediment thats new to me but it seems you would be replacing your membrane and definitely your DI alot sooner with a 4 stage. not saying it wouldn't be good just not something I would buy when a 5 stage is not much more, probably why I have never seem them (never looked for one)

Misled · 08/09/2009, 06:11 PM

This was the common filter 10 years ago, without the DI. The DI was added 4 or 5 years ago. I'm on my second membrane. As long as you keep up with pre filter maintenance, (sediments and carbon should be replaced every 6 months), no problems.

badwrasse · 08/09/2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Misled
This was the common filter 10 years ago, without the DI. The DI was added 4 or 5 years ago. I'm on my second membrane. As long as you keep up with pre filter maintenance, (sediments and carbon should be replaced every 6 months), no problems.

I C well not to sound like a punk kid or any thing but it might be time for an update no harm can come of it except mabe 50 bucks less for the wife that week

Misled · 08/09/2009, 06:41 PM

Ok, after this I'm stopping. My TDS are and have been 0 since adding the DI. I'll spend the 50 on one of my other hobbies.

EverettReef · 08/09/2009, 06:45 PM

Filter replacement schedules will vary with the TDS of the source system. My source water has a TDS between 35-40. Someone with source water TDS of 300-400 is going to go through more filters than I am. I think it is important to now your source water TDS to determine with your vendor what RO/DI filter system will work best for your situation.

Misled · 08/09/2009, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by EverettReef
Filter replacement schedules will vary with the TDS of the source system.

Thought I was done, but I have to say something about that. You should check what the manufacture says about "pre filter" replacement. The 6 months isn't only because of them getting clogged. Bacteria can build up in the filters that can be harmful to the membrane if they reach it. Also if the carbon block stops removing clorines and clorimines it can hurt the membrane. It's easier and cheeper to set up a schedule and spend 6 bucks to replace the prefilters on a regular basis than to have to spend 32 bucks on a new membrane.

Like I said earlier, my unit is over 10 years old and only on the second membrane.

EverettReef · 08/09/2009, 07:49 PM

Jesse,

I agree with ya. My point is you should know a bit about your source water before settling on a unit. Then you should work with the vendor to build a system that will work for you. My RO/DI system is 8 years old and I just replaced the membrane for the first time a couple of months ago. I also added dual TDS meters and replaced the DI bed and pre-filters. I replace the pre-filters once or twice a year.

mudplo · 08/09/2009, 07:50 PM

Thanks for all the advice here....any idea how I can find the TDS of my local water supply?

EverettReef · 08/09/2009, 07:58 PM

You could buy a handheld TDS meter. Here are some examples of what is available from MarineDepot.

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_search...meter&parsed=1

badwrasse · 08/09/2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Misled
Ok, after this I'm stopping. My TDS are and have been 0 since adding the DI

relax I was kidding and I really dont care what your TDS is or was.I was only saying 10 years is a long time to go without upgrading or trading in or adding on. And why wast the money on a 4 stage if a 5 isn't much more. Two carbons sre better than one. enough said im done

Misled · 08/09/2009, 08:18 PM

So I'll answer this in parts.

relax I was kidding,- Sorry, couldn't read that.

and I really dont care what your TDS is or was- That's the reason for the RO/DI and the thread.

I was only saying 10 years is a long time to go without upgrading or trading in or adding on.- Why, it still produces water that has 0 TDS.

And why wast the money on a 4 stage if a 5 isn't much more.- I don't know how to wast money.

Two carbons sre better than one.- But one can be enough.

enough said im done- I said that too.

badwrasse · 08/09/2009, 08:42 PM

i will respond in parts but im lazy so

#1 thats what the "

" was for to let you know

#2 i don care about YOUR TDS its a non issue and not in question

#3 but you did upgrade if you have DI right? (because they only started that 4-5 years ago)

#4 buy once

#5 can be, but why two is better dont even have to be carbon could run 10 then 5 micron sediment prefilters and you have a little room to customize

I wasnt mashing your system only kidding, you didnt know and for that im sorry

ILoveReefer · 08/09/2009, 10:15 PM

If it ain't broke dont fix it. Doesn't really matter if its one week old or 10 years old. I run this model from buckeye.
http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/Pr...ystem-p17.html

It's pretty much the same thing as the value (see langtudatinh01 reply for link)except for the clear housing, pressure gauge, and thermometer. None of which are really needed.

4 years old and still original membrane. Mine measures 1 TDS, sediment, carbon, and DI resin changed 3 months ago.
220 TDS going in.
30 to 40 gallons made weekly.
No complaints

ILoveReefer · 08/09/2009, 10:20 PM

oops double posted

Buckeye Hydro · 08/10/2009, 10:56 AM

Hey guys - unless you are addressing a specific water quality issue - four stages should work find for you, as long as you use the correct, good qulaity filters in those stages:
Sediment filter (per peave - don't call this a "micron" filter!)
Carbon block (not GAC)
RO membrane
DI resin

Instead of one good quality block could you use two poor quality blocks? Sure, but why would you.

Instead of a single sediment filter, could you install two? Sure, but why would you (for most water sources).

Remember that prefilters don't remove TDS - taht is done primarily by the Membrane, and to a lesser extent, by the DI.

Russ

08/09/2009, 05:30 PM	#8
badwrasse Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. louis Posts: 1,203	oh and hey neighbor check out the SLASH in the area club section forums alot of guys are getting out of the hobby so from time to time the have used ones __________________ GOT CRABS? Current Tank Info: 90gal RR,rock wall in progress, MRC sump, reef octopus XP2000I skimmer, marineland pro lighting 2-150w MH 4-54w T5's, hydor wavemaker with 2 #4 controllable pumps, and QuietOne 4000HH return pump.

08/09/2009, 05:49 PM	#10
badwrasse Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. louis Posts: 1,203	most have seen either have two carbon or two sediment thats new to me but it seems you would be replacing your membrane and definitely your DI alot sooner with a 4 stage. not saying it wouldn't be good just not something I would buy when a 5 stage is not much more, probably why I have never seem them (never looked for one) __________________ GOT CRABS? Current Tank Info: 90gal RR,rock wall in progress, MRC sump, reef octopus XP2000I skimmer, marineland pro lighting 2-150w MH 4-54w T5's, hydor wavemaker with 2 #4 controllable pumps, and QuietOne 4000HH return pump.

08/09/2009, 06:11 PM	#11
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	This was the common filter 10 years ago, without the DI. The DI was added 4 or 5 years ago. I'm on my second membrane. As long as you keep up with pre filter maintenance, (sediments and carbon should be replaced every 6 months), no problems. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

08/09/2009, 06:41 PM	#13
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	Ok, after this I'm stopping. My TDS are and have been 0 since adding the DI. I'll spend the 50 on one of my other hobbies. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

08/09/2009, 06:45 PM	#14
EverettReef Lounge Pariah Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Everett, Wa Posts: 257	Filter replacement schedules will vary with the TDS of the source system. My source water has a TDS between 35-40. Someone with source water TDS of 300-400 is going to go through more filters than I am. I think it is important to now your source water TDS to determine with your vendor what RO/DI filter system will work best for your situation. __________________ Bruce

08/09/2009, 04:53 PM	#1
mudplo Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 109	RO/DI expxectation Hey all, I have a 65-gallon setup and am starting to bristle at running to the LFS weekly to get RO water. Still, the world of RO/DI equipments seems vast, and I'm concerned that I might spend too much, or else get too little. Considering that this filter will only be used for the aquariums (one 65, one 24) the 50 GPD stuff seems a bit excessive...am I missing something here? Additionally, I'm getting lost on the value of a 4- vs. 5-stage filter. Ultimately, I'd like to get a good filter without spending more than I need to. I don't see my ambitions growing to anything more than a 125-gallon tank at most for at least a few years, so that no worries for now about buying for upgrades down the line. Are some of these $150 models I'm seeing out there going to be sufficient? Do I need that fifth stage? Thanks again for any and all help. -- clint

08/09/2009, 04:58 PM	#2
badwrasse Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. louis Posts: 1,203	a 4 stage will bring your waters tds (total dissolved solids) down to the 90's a 5 stage will bring them to 0 the lower the better the 5 stage has the DI the 4 does not you definitely want the 5 stage you can find them for around $180-200 __________________ GOT CRABS? Current Tank Info: 90gal RR,rock wall in progress, MRC sump, reef octopus XP2000I skimmer, marineland pro lighting 2-150w MH 4-54w T5's, hydor wavemaker with 2 #4 controllable pumps, and QuietOne 4000HH return pump.

08/09/2009, 05:02 PM	#3
langtudatinh01 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Fairbanks, Alaska Posts: 399	you could go here for more information. His price is reasonable too. http://www.melevsreef.com/shop/index.html __________________ Tuanito Tranito Current Tank Info: my little heaven: 40 Breeder nano reeftank (1 year old-refugium/sump 20 gallons)

08/09/2009, 05:11 PM	#4
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	The only thing I don't know is the quality of the water at your tap. Thinking it may be at 300TDS or lower, you "may" not need the 5th stage. Don't get all caught up in the numbers as any quality RO/DI unit will work fine. Go to the sponsers tab at the top of the page and check The Filter Guys, SpectraPure and Buckeye Field Supplies. Notice I said 'Quality". IMO stay away from ebay's units unless you are sure of the supplier. Alot of them use cheep housings that may work fine for a little while but break after a couple years. My very old, (over ten years), Kent unit at 35 GPD works fine, but you will want more than 35GPD. Remember per day is 24 hours. When I want to do a 15 gal water change, it takes over 8 hours to make the water. In colder temps even longer. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

08/09/2009, 05:20 PM	#5
kube Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: South Dakota Posts: 79	man ......i bought mine off sleeve bay for 100 shipped and a year later on the same filters and membrane still testing 0 tds its says it gets 100 gpd.....but in reality it only gets 50 GPD, but do i care? NO! For 100 bucks i couldn't be happier water before filter water tests at 400+ TDS

08/09/2009, 07:49 PM	#16
EverettReef Lounge Pariah Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Everett, Wa Posts: 257	Jesse, I agree with ya. My point is you should know a bit about your source water before settling on a unit. Then you should work with the vendor to build a system that will work for you. My RO/DI system is 8 years old and I just replaced the membrane for the first time a couple of months ago. I also added dual TDS meters and replaced the DI bed and pre-filters. I replace the pre-filters once or twice a year. __________________ Bruce

08/09/2009, 07:50 PM	#17
mudplo Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 109	Thanks for all the advice here....any idea how I can find the TDS of my local water supply?

08/09/2009, 07:58 PM	#18
EverettReef Lounge Pariah Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Everett, Wa Posts: 257	You could buy a handheld TDS meter. Here are some examples of what is available from MarineDepot. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_search...meter&parsed=1 __________________ Bruce

08/09/2009, 08:18 PM	#20
Misled RC Mod Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Pittsburgh, Pa Posts: 11,440 Blog Entries: 11	So I'll answer this in parts. relax I was kidding,- Sorry, couldn't read that. and I really dont care what your TDS is or was- That's the reason for the RO/DI and the thread. I was only saying 10 years is a long time to go without upgrading or trading in or adding on.- Why, it still produces water that has 0 TDS. And why wast the money on a 4 stage if a 5 isn't much more.- I don't know how to wast money. Two carbons sre better than one.- But one can be enough. enough said im done- I said that too. __________________ Jesse I'm not saying I'm Batman. I'm just saying nobody has ever seen me and Batman in a room together.

08/09/2009, 08:42 PM	#21
badwrasse Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: St. louis Posts: 1,203	i will respond in parts but im lazy so #1 thats what the " " was for to let you know #2 i don care about YOUR TDS its a non issue and not in question #3 but you did upgrade if you have DI right? (because they only started that 4-5 years ago) #4 buy once #5 can be, but why two is better dont even have to be carbon could run 10 then 5 micron sediment prefilters and you have a little room to customize I wasnt mashing your system only kidding, you didnt know and for that im sorry __________________ GOT CRABS? Current Tank Info: 90gal RR,rock wall in progress, MRC sump, reef octopus XP2000I skimmer, marineland pro lighting 2-150w MH 4-54w T5's, hydor wavemaker with 2 #4 controllable pumps, and QuietOne 4000HH return pump.

08/09/2009, 10:15 PM	#22
ILoveReefer Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cheektowaga Posts: 851	If it ain't broke dont fix it. Doesn't really matter if its one week old or 10 years old. I run this model from buckeye. http://www.buckeyefieldsupply.com/Pr...ystem-p17.html It's pretty much the same thing as the value (see langtudatinh01 reply for link)except for the clear housing, pressure gauge, and thermometer. None of which are really needed. 4 years old and still original membrane. Mine measures 1 TDS, sediment, carbon, and DI resin changed 3 months ago. 220 TDS going in. 30 to 40 gallons made weekly. No complaints Last edited by ILoveReefer; 08/09/2009 at 10:22 PM.

08/09/2009, 10:20 PM	#23
ILoveReefer Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cheektowaga Posts: 851	oops double posted

08/10/2009, 10:56 AM	#24
Buckeye Hydro .Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,857	Hey guys - unless you are addressing a specific water quality issue - four stages should work find for you, as long as you use the correct, good qulaity filters in those stages: Sediment filter (per peave - don't call this a "micron" filter!) Carbon block (not GAC) RO membrane DI resin Instead of one good quality block could you use two poor quality blocks? Sure, but why would you. Instead of a single sediment filter, could you install two? Sure, but why would you (for most water sources). Remember that prefilters don't remove TDS - taht is done primarily by the Membrane, and to a lesser extent, by the DI. Russ