DIY UPS - Backup Power Supply?

pterfloth · 08/25/2009, 02:09 PM

I need to put together a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) that will provide a least a few hours of back-up power for my return pump which runs at 90 watts. I have Googled without finding what I need.

I would like to prepare for the inevitable fall/winter outages.

Does anyone have any plans or suggestions?

rwrvetn · 08/25/2009, 02:46 PM

I use a 12 volt deep cell marine battery (Walmart)with a charge tender(Batteries Plus) mounted to the outer battery case. To this I have mounted an electrical circuit switch (Radioshack Parts)which opens the battery circuit when the 120 volt line goes out. The 12 volt system is connected to a sealed marine bildge pump(Any marine or Boat supply eg: Boat Us) in the sump which is "T"ed into one of my tank inflow lines. I have a check valve installed between the "T" and pump. This will keep the battery charged and maitained and automatically power the 12 volt pump when ever the power goes off. It resects and recharges as needed. I have a 200 gallon display/ 70 gallon sump/20 gallon refugium/20 gallon frag tank plus an algae turf filter. It will keep the flow adequate for over 40 hours---enough time to start up a generator if need be. Email me if you want a diagram or photos: rwrvetn@att.net

customcolor · 08/25/2009, 04:27 PM

just post the pics here for every one to see and not have to do the hassle of logging out and signing in to email and send a quick one to you...then wait for your to reply back...

transd · 08/25/2009, 04:29 PM

+1 on posting pics and instructions here. I would love to take on another project... especially one to prep for the inevitable.

stugray · 08/25/2009, 04:40 PM

pterfloth,

Just be sure to use a "true sine inverter" instead of a "modified sine".

The modified sine can damage your pump(s)

Stu

stugray · 08/25/2009, 04:48 PM

This diagram might help:

In this case, the wall wart ( DC power supply ) controls two relays: 1 - to remove inverter power from the load (pump) and 2 - to apply charger power to the battery.

When the power goes out the charge relay opens & the inverter-power-to-pump closes.

When power is ON the charge relay closes & the inverter-power-to-pump opens.

Stu

pterfloth · 08/25/2009, 05:45 PM

Thanks gentlemen! Very much appreciated!

Everyones Hero · 08/25/2009, 10:11 PM

A saw a video someone had posted last week about the dangers of modified UPSs. They mentioned that most chargers use a trickle charge (continuous charge) & others use another (only charges when necessary.)

Do the deep cycle batteries use the trickle charge or the other? They say that using a trickle charge on a battery that doesn't need it may damage the battery & cause it to rupture.

rickh · 08/25/2009, 10:35 PM

I wouldn't bother with an expensive 1000 watt inverter. Hopefully you only need 200-400 watts, so get a cheaper inverter. With a large 100ah battery you can only run at 1000 watts for about 30 minutes. Get a generator. R

uncleof6 · 08/25/2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rickh
I wouldn't bother with an expensive 1000 watt inverter. Hopefully you only need 200-400 watts, so get a cheaper inverter. With a large 100ah battery you can only run at 1000 watts for about 30 minutes. Get a generator. R

Cheapest true sine wave inverter I have seen is ~$800. So what would you consider cheap? Granted I have not done an exhaustive search for them......... you can buy a vortech and a battery back up for it-- for less than that. Or better yet, use tunze dc power heads, and not even worry about it.

Just throwing this out there, not directed at you: It really is not practical, to run an entire system, or even a heavy wattage pump off of batteries, it can be done though. Generator would be a better idea, however, I have a friend with a military type generator (just a wee bit bigger than will fit you living room,) and he said nothin can stop me now---till it failed to start, because in his infinite wisdom he forgot one thing: It runs on diesel, and you got to fill the dang tank. Anyway........

Some one mentioned charging above. It is float charging you want to use, as stated-- trickle charging causes some problems.

Jim

JTL · 08/26/2009, 06:29 AM

+1 on the generator. I am going to get one myself since I live in hurricane country.

stugray · 08/26/2009, 07:22 AM

Yeah... a generator!

I HAVE one. When the power went out, guess what...... I couldnt run my SEQ barracuda. Turns out not all generators make clean enough power to run an AC motor.

Again, look for TRUE SINE.

As for the 1000 Watt Inverter. I just happen to have one it was ~$300 a few years ago.

Stu

der_wille_zur_macht · 08/26/2009, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rwrvetn
The 12 volt system is connected to a sealed marine bildge pump(Any marine or Boat supply eg: Boat Us) in the sump

I'd really appreciate it if someone could provide make/model information for a 12V DC pump that's safe to use in a marine tank (i.e. one that doesn't have unsafe internals.)

GlassReef · 08/26/2009, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by stugray
... As for the 1000 Watt Inverter. I just happen to have one it was ~$300 a few years ago.

Here's one for $275. Don't know if it's any good:

http://www.amazon.com/Prowatt-SW1000...1322412&sr=8-2

BeanAnimal · 08/26/2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht
I'd really appreciate it if someone could provide make/model information for a 12V DC pump that's safe to use in a marine tank (i.e. one that doesn't have unsafe internals.)

Are you looking for an external or submersible pump?

Internal models are going to be rare (you may find 12V stainless bilge pumps).

For external models, you will likely have to look for standard NEMA DC frames to mount to 56J or similar reef safe (Reeflo, Gorman Rupp, etc) pump frames. You can also find a suitable DC motor and fabricate a mounting plate for non standard wet ends (Reeflo Dart/Snapper, Dolhpin, etc). The motors will not likely be 12VDC due to the large currnet carrying conductors that would be required. You will find motors in the 24VDC-200VDC range, depending on size.

Stay away from "universal" style motors, as they have brushes and will be a pain to maintain (and noisy).

Though if you look hard enough you WILL find 12VDC NEMA framed motors.
http://www.emotorstore.com/productDe...rs_E_DC_Motors

http://www.emotorstore.com/productDe...rs_E_DC_Motors

customcolor · 08/26/2009, 07:33 PM

does a 12v 4 amp motor take 400+ watts of ac to run bean??

customcolor · 08/26/2009, 07:42 PM

and which ones have the threaded end to fit the sequence impeller on?

customcolor · 08/26/2009, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by customcolor
does a 12v 4 amp motor take 400+ watts of ac to run bean??

well i did some digging online for the answer for this one....this is what i got...

It is approximately 10:1. 10 amps at 12 volts converts to 1 amp at 120 volts. (think 12 x 10 = 120 x 1, power in = power out)

BeanAnimal · 08/27/2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by customcolor
does a 12v 4 amp motor take 400+ watts of ac to run bean??

12V at 4 amps is 48 Watts

Inverters are not perfect, so there is some loss. Though, a Watt is a Watt, there is a difference between AC and DC with regard to how we measure when a Watt has been consumed. Without going into a lot of detail, AC power is rather complex because the current and voltage follow a sine wave. In any case, to drive that 12VDC @ 4A motor, will take an inverter rated at around 60 Watts. Add some extra headroom to account for startup inrush and a 100 Watt inverter is needed at the minimum.

Mike31154 · 08/27/2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht
I'd really appreciate it if someone could provide make/model information for a 12V DC pump that's safe to use in a marine tank (i.e. one that doesn't have unsafe internals.)

Panworld offers some brushless DC models, 12 or 24 volt. I haven't confirmed that they're ok for a marine tank, I suspect they are since the PX series is. Check out their PX-D series.

Panworld PX-D

screebo · 08/28/2009, 12:05 AM

EcoTech Vortech MP series circulation pumps are powered by a 24 volt power supply. Their back up is 12 volt and simply runs the pumps at half speed in a power outage. Up to 36 hours is what is claimed. Another real nice feature is the electrical side of the pump lives on the dry side of the glass with only the propeller and magnetic drive residing in the tank.

BeanAnimal · 08/28/2009, 06:00 AM

I think he was looking for return pumps

der_wille_zur_macht · 08/28/2009, 06:03 AM

Good find, Mike. I'm gonna tuck that link away in a safe place.

der_wille_zur_macht · 08/28/2009, 06:11 AM

External for a return or submersible. I just want something *not* prepackaged (i.e. tunze or vortech) and I'd prefer external. This is for a future project that's barely in the research stage, so I'm just looking for options.

BeanAnimal · 08/28/2009, 06:30 AM

Yes, interesting find. I would love to know how many dB these puppies are.

08/25/2009, 02:09 PM	#1
pterfloth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pt Roberts, WA/Vancouver, BC Posts: 72	DIY UPS - Backup Power Supply? I need to put together a UPS (uninterruptible power supply) that will provide a least a few hours of back-up power for my return pump which runs at 90 watts. I have Googled without finding what I need. I would like to prepare for the inevitable fall/winter outages. Does anyone have any plans or suggestions?

08/25/2009, 04:27 PM	#3
customcolor Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: kaukauna, wi. Posts: 3,879	just post the pics here for every one to see and not have to do the hassle of logging out and signing in to email and send a quick one to you...then wait for your to reply back... __________________ PLEASE DONT USE GREAT STUFF (THE YELLOW STUFF) IN YOUR TANK........USE POND FOAM (THE BLACK STUFF).. I BEG YOU! Great stuff====$5 a can 24-48 hour cure Epoxy to cover it====little as $5 for small projects or up to $100+ for larger projects and another 24-48 hour cure I hope you covered it well cuz if you didnt it will start to break down in a few months sand is another added cost to cover up the yellow. Pond foams====$9-$15 a can 24-48 hour cure DONE! You can cover it with sand if you want to (YOU DONT HAVE TO) though but thats added cost again Current Tank Info: 75 gal under way

08/25/2009, 04:40 PM	#5
stugray Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, Co Posts: 4,566	pterfloth, Just be sure to use a "true sine inverter" instead of a "modified sine". The modified sine can damage your pump(s) Stu __________________ Some people think that I have Attention Deficit Disorder. They just dont understand that........ Hey! Look a chicken! Well, We KNOW GOD exists, but for US to exist without a GOD is preposterous….Umm wait a minute…. Sounds a bit circular to me… Current Tank Info: 125 Gal. display w/80 gal mud/caulerpa sump. Basement sump w/ LED Grow Light,Gravity fed Reeflo200 skimmer w/ ORCA Recirc, DIY calc reactor & kalk stirrer. Inline plumbed 75 Gal frag/settling tank.

08/25/2009, 04:48 PM	#6
stugray Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, Co Posts: 4,566	This diagram might help: In this case, the wall wart ( DC power supply ) controls two relays: 1 - to remove inverter power from the load (pump) and 2 - to apply charger power to the battery. When the power goes out the charge relay opens & the inverter-power-to-pump closes. When power is ON the charge relay closes & the inverter-power-to-pump opens. Stu __________________ Some people think that I have Attention Deficit Disorder. They just dont understand that........ Hey! Look a chicken! Well, We KNOW GOD exists, but for US to exist without a GOD is preposterous….Umm wait a minute…. Sounds a bit circular to me… Current Tank Info: 125 Gal. display w/80 gal mud/caulerpa sump. Basement sump w/ LED Grow Light,Gravity fed Reeflo200 skimmer w/ ORCA Recirc, DIY calc reactor & kalk stirrer. Inline plumbed 75 Gal frag/settling tank.

08/26/2009, 06:29 AM	#11
JTL Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Venice Island, FL Posts: 2,532	+1 on the generator. I am going to get one myself since I live in hurricane country. __________________ John 100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.

08/25/2009, 02:46 PM	#2
rwrvetn Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Sarasota, Florida Posts: 14	I use a 12 volt deep cell marine battery (Walmart)with a charge tender(Batteries Plus) mounted to the outer battery case. To this I have mounted an electrical circuit switch (Radioshack Parts)which opens the battery circuit when the 120 volt line goes out. The 12 volt system is connected to a sealed marine bildge pump(Any marine or Boat supply eg: Boat Us) in the sump which is "T"ed into one of my tank inflow lines. I have a check valve installed between the "T" and pump. This will keep the battery charged and maitained and automatically power the 12 volt pump when ever the power goes off. It resects and recharges as needed. I have a 200 gallon display/ 70 gallon sump/20 gallon refugium/20 gallon frag tank plus an algae turf filter. It will keep the flow adequate for over 40 hours---enough time to start up a generator if need be. Email me if you want a diagram or photos: rwrvetn@att.net

08/25/2009, 04:29 PM	#4
transd Registered Member. Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Northern VA Posts: 76	+1 on posting pics and instructions here. I would love to take on another project... especially one to prep for the inevitable.

08/25/2009, 05:45 PM	#7
pterfloth Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pt Roberts, WA/Vancouver, BC Posts: 72	Thanks gentlemen! Very much appreciated!

08/25/2009, 10:11 PM	#8
Everyones Hero Registered Member. Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Leonardtown, MD Posts: 1,154	A saw a video someone had posted last week about the dangers of modified UPSs. They mentioned that most chargers use a trickle charge (continuous charge) & others use another (only charges when necessary.) Do the deep cycle batteries use the trickle charge or the other? They say that using a trickle charge on a battery that doesn't need it may damage the battery & cause it to rupture.

08/25/2009, 10:35 PM	#9
rickh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Lost_in_Michigan Posts: 1,306	I wouldn't bother with an expensive 1000 watt inverter. Hopefully you only need 200-400 watts, so get a cheaper inverter. With a large 100ah battery you can only run at 1000 watts for about 30 minutes. Get a generator. R

08/26/2009, 07:22 AM	#12
stugray Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, Co Posts: 4,566	Yeah... a generator! I HAVE one. When the power went out, guess what...... I couldnt run my SEQ barracuda. Turns out not all generators make clean enough power to run an AC motor. Again, look for TRUE SINE. As for the 1000 Watt Inverter. I just happen to have one it was ~$300 a few years ago. Stu __________________ Some people think that I have Attention Deficit Disorder. They just dont understand that........ Hey! Look a chicken! Well, We KNOW GOD exists, but for US to exist without a GOD is preposterous….Umm wait a minute…. Sounds a bit circular to me… Current Tank Info: 125 Gal. display w/80 gal mud/caulerpa sump. Basement sump w/ LED Grow Light,Gravity fed Reeflo200 skimmer w/ ORCA Recirc, DIY calc reactor & kalk stirrer. Inline plumbed 75 Gal frag/settling tank.

08/26/2009, 07:33 PM	#16
customcolor Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: kaukauna, wi. Posts: 3,879	does a 12v 4 amp motor take 400+ watts of ac to run bean?? __________________ PLEASE DONT USE GREAT STUFF (THE YELLOW STUFF) IN YOUR TANK........USE POND FOAM (THE BLACK STUFF).. I BEG YOU! Great stuff====$5 a can 24-48 hour cure Epoxy to cover it====little as $5 for small projects or up to $100+ for larger projects and another 24-48 hour cure I hope you covered it well cuz if you didnt it will start to break down in a few months sand is another added cost to cover up the yellow. Pond foams====$9-$15 a can 24-48 hour cure DONE! You can cover it with sand if you want to (YOU DONT HAVE TO) though but thats added cost again Current Tank Info: 75 gal under way

08/26/2009, 07:42 PM	#17
customcolor Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: kaukauna, wi. Posts: 3,879	and which ones have the threaded end to fit the sequence impeller on? __________________ PLEASE DONT USE GREAT STUFF (THE YELLOW STUFF) IN YOUR TANK........USE POND FOAM (THE BLACK STUFF).. I BEG YOU! Great stuff====$5 a can 24-48 hour cure Epoxy to cover it====little as $5 for small projects or up to $100+ for larger projects and another 24-48 hour cure I hope you covered it well cuz if you didnt it will start to break down in a few months sand is another added cost to cover up the yellow. Pond foams====$9-$15 a can 24-48 hour cure DONE! You can cover it with sand if you want to (YOU DONT HAVE TO) though but thats added cost again Current Tank Info: 75 gal under way

08/28/2009, 12:05 AM	#21
screebo Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: San Carlos, California Posts: 26	EcoTech Vortech MP series circulation pumps are powered by a 24 volt power supply. Their back up is 12 volt and simply runs the pumps at half speed in a power outage. Up to 36 hours is what is claimed. Another real nice feature is the electrical side of the pump lives on the dry side of the glass with only the propeller and magnetic drive residing in the tank. __________________ ----John "Give a fish a man and he'll eat man for a day" Current Tank Info: Elos 120

08/28/2009, 06:00 AM	#22
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	I think he was looking for return pumps

08/28/2009, 06:03 AM	#23
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	Good find, Mike. I'm gonna tuck that link away in a safe place. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

08/28/2009, 06:11 AM	#24
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	External for a return or submersible. I just want something not prepackaged (i.e. tunze or vortech) and I'd prefer external. This is for a future project that's barely in the research stage, so I'm just looking for options. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

08/28/2009, 06:30 AM	#25
BeanAnimal Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 20,772	Yes, interesting find. I would love to know how many dB these puppies are.