RO help!!~!

[ItsMee]

I bought all new filter for my ro and even put in extra because my tap water ranges from 820 tds to 900 tds depending on the 3 sources the water company switches to and from. First there is a 5 micron, then another 5 micron, then GAC, then a carbon "block", then a Catalytic carbon, then the membrane, then the ro beads, and I bypassed the filter for taste. After all this, my tds meter is reading 96!! I made sure everything was hooked up correctly. I thought with such high tds i would still get 0 tds but just have to change out the filters more often. No such luck. What would you do???

[GlassReef]

If the 96 TDS is after the DI, it would be good if you could narrow down the possibilities, as far as where your problem lies. Can you get a TDS reading after your membrane. If your unit is rated at 75gals per day, you probably have a FilmTec membrane. It should be giving you 96-98% rejection - so with a line TDS of 900, you should be getting a reading of 36 or better directly after the membrane. Some say the FilmTec is only good for 93% - that still means your reading should not be more than 63. Either reading should go way down (probably to zero) if your DI is functioning correctly.

[Buckeye Hydro]

Originally posted by ItsMee
I bought all new filter for my ro and even put in extra because my tap water ranges from 820 tds to 900 tds depending on the 3 sources the water company switches to and from. First there is a 5 micron, then another 5 micron, then GAC, then a carbon "block", then a Catalytic carbon, then the membrane, then the ro beads, and I bypassed the filter for taste. After all this, my tds meter is reading 96!! I made sure everything was hooked up correctly. I thought with such high tds i would still get 0 tds but just have to change out the filters more often. No such luck. What would you do???

Some comments:
Having two 5 micron sediment filters in unusual. If you have heavy sediment loads, go to a 5 mic followed by a 1 mic sed filter.

normal GAC really has no place in these high capacity systesm. I'f remove it.

Are you using catalytic GAC to deal with chloramines? If so, keep it in, but move it ahead of the carbon block.

We need some additional info to troubleshoot the system.

What is the tds:
1. of your tap water?
2. of your RO water?
Of your DI water - you said it was 96. Are you comfortable that that is an accurate reading?

What is your water pressure?

Russ

[ItsMee]

Ok, I took every bit advice here and made some additional changes as well.

From the feed line the first filter it hits is a 1 micron sediment, 2nd is another 1 micron sediment, then catalyctic carbon, then a carbon block, then a 5 micron filter, then a 75 gpd membrane, and then a 100 gpd membrane (YES, 2 membranes!), then RO beads, then the final filter for taste. I calibrated my TDS meter by putting it in 1,000 ppm and pointing it to 998-999 TDS (that is the highest it goes). Then I tested some distilled water from the grocery store with it and it read 0 TDS (BTW, if distilled == 0 TDS, then why can't we calibrate with it?) I checked my PSI and it is at a steady 600. The TDS of the tap water before RO is 900 ppm. The water's TDS after all this filtration is 85 I installed my membranes correctly: I put the double 0-ring end in first, pushing it not too hard, but all the way down. I put 100 GPD flow restrictors on both membrane housings - on the waste ports. I made sure the port without the flow restrictor on it (the permiate, or product) is the line that continues to the next step in filtration. I made sure I tested the TDS after I emptied the holding tank and the water within the filter, and flushed the membranes. What else could it possibly be?? I'm pulling my hair out here!!!

[GlassReef]

I can fully understand your frustration - but it sounds like you still haven't advised the TDS of your RO water (the water leaving your RO membranes). I am assuming this because you said, "The water's TDS after all this filtration is 85". It's necessary to identify where the problem lies. As Russ, from Buckeye Field Supply, advised, it would help to know:

1. TDS of your tap water. This we know is 900.
2. TDS of the water leaving the membrane ?
3. TDS of the water leaving the DI filter (85)?

Once those 3 values are known, it's possible to assume where the problem(s) might be.

[ItsMee]

Your right, this does help. The TDS after the 2 membranes is 25. What the?? I put new beads in the DI! Oh what the heck....I just checked the water after the DI after typing the above and it too is 25-26TDS. The water after being in the storage thing is 28 TDS. Also, I did notice something when taking the water from the RO, there was some DI beads in the glass I think. Could they fall down? If that is the problem, then why is the TDS significantally lower then a couple hours ago? Could it be that before I had the carbon block in, I got carbon inside the unit, and now that I have a block in place, it is clearing out? Or could it be something else? Thanks for your help!

[GlassReef]

Check to see if you have your DI filter set up backward. That probably wouldn't cause your DI to not fuction, but it might be the cause of the beads being in the glass.

I'll just try to think through what you've told us.

1. Originally the TDS was 85 - after the DI
2. Now the TDS is <> 25 - both after the RO and after the DI

That would tend to mean that your DI is doing nothing. If you measure RO water immediately after you turn the unit on, you have a reading that is much higher than you'd expect. The first 30 seconds or so you are "flushing" the membrane of impurities. This will happen every time you turn the unit on after it's been off for a while.

So, if you measured the RO immediately, this may have caused the TDS 85 reading. The second time you took a reading, possibly you waited a little longer. That would account for the TDS 25 reading. Assuming a tap water of 900, a TDS of 25 for your RO water would be an acceptable reading.

Assuming all I've said turns out to be correct, you problem is with your DI filter. First thing I would look for is whether or not water is actually passing through the filter. Water going in at 25 and coming out at 25 means you've got glass beads or water is not going through.

[ItsMee]

a TDS of 25 is acceptable with 2 membranes? I took the measurement after the 2nd mebrane.

[unhpian]

I'm not sure I'd bother running two RO membranes in series - that would waste an incredible amount of water..
Ditto on the two 1 micron filters in series ...

Also, what is your pressure prior to membrane #1 and #2? With 5 stages prior to your first RO membrane, it's possible that there is so much headloss you have low pressure at the membrane, thus reducing the efficiency. You said "I checked my PSI and it is at a steady 600"....but where did you check it? And...I highly doubt it's 600 psi, that would be ALOT of pressure and I doubt the housing could take it!

[GlassReef]

Originally posted by ItsMee
a TDS of 25 is acceptable with 2 membranes? I took the measurement after the 2nd mebrane.

IMO, yes - if you are starting with 900 - 25 is acceptable. However, your DI should be bringing it down to zero - or at least, very close to it. If it's not, something is wrong with your DI.

BTW: I'm assuming you meant 60 PSI not 600?

[ItsMee]

yes, 60 PSI. Sorry. It is without a doubt passing the DI beads. I didn't know people sold glass beads. I guess I got ripped off.

[GlassReef]

Originally posted by ItsMee
yes, 60 PSI. Sorry. It is without a doubt passing the DI beads. I didn't know people sold glass beads. I guess I got ripped off.

I'm sorry, I was joking about the glass beads - strange sense of humor, I guess.

However, if your TDS is 25 in AND out of your DI - something is wrong. No question. Where did you get your resin? What was the description?

[ItsMee]

http://usashower.com/aquasafe-revers...4df7366e839223

BTW, do NOT...I repeat, NOT: order from the company linked above. I had the worst experience EVER buying from them.

[GlassReef]

Well, Purolite is a good resin. What kind of a cartridge is it in? Would it be possible to post a pic? And maybe one of your whole RO/DI unit? Might help.

[ItsMee]

yeah, i'll do that as soon as I get a chance...I REALLY appreciate your help. Our conversation has been almost instant up till now, but I'm kinda distracted at the moment because I just got my shipment of my Cadlight 39G pro!!!!

[ItsMee]

pics of RO:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...2#post15654522

[GlassReef]

Thanks for the pic. Seems your DI is one of the small horizontal ones. Problem with horizontal DI's - it's possible that the water passes in a shallow stream through the bottom of the container, only contacting part of the resin - although, IMHO, that's not your problem.

As I said earlier if your TDS is 25 in AND out of your DI - something is badly wrong. Either the resin is spent, the water is not actually passing through the resin, or (although not very likely) you have the wrong kind of resin.

The last possiblilty - and it's happened to me - your TDS meter is out of calibration by 25.

[ItsMee]

If the TDS is off calibration by 25, then the distilled water I tested that it says is 0 TDS is 999-25 (974) TDS - or if it was wrong in the other direction - that would make the distilled actually 25 TDS. It is more likely that the distilled water's TDS is actually what the meter says it is: zero. My DI is not horizontal, it is verticle. I watch it fill up from bottom to top. Although, as I said before, the company I bought the RO stuff from is shady ::shudder:: www.usashower.com-i shoulda known better. I wouldn't doubt they are bad beads. They were sent in a see-through sandwich bag - well not actually a sandwich bag-but it had the ziplock, was a litle smaler then a sandwich bag (a sandwich bag woulda been thicker/better) are they not supposed to be sent in sun-proof material?

[ItsMee]

Other than the price of distilled water, is there any other reason not to use it? I have not been able to find a clear definite answer to this.

[GlassReef]

What your saying about your TDS meter makes sense.

Sorry, from your pic I took the DI to be horizontal. I wouldn't give up. Your RO is getting your water from 900 to 25. All your missing is a working DI. If you are absolutely sure that water is passing through the resin, then there has to be something wrong with the resin. You should probably bite the bullit, if possible, and order some good resin from a place like Bulk Reef Supply.

[ItsMee]

Yeah, that picture was sideways-sorry. I think my DI cartridge is made to be horizontal but I put it vertical, which should be ok, I mean all it does is hold the beads and let the water pass through it.

My new tank is all set up, it just needs water so this is kill'n me! I have spent hours on that RO (BTW, I tested the TDS again and its up to 160 now, so I made sure the meter was ok by testing calibration fluid and distilled water and it read correctly) and am just ready to put it off temporarily and go with distilled. Do you know if distilled is ok to use, other then the price? My other option is to use a local drive-up RO station that has it's filters change frequently. The water tastes awesome and thats where I get my drinking water. I tested it today and the TDS is 15. Im going to try and find out when they change thier filters and get some right after they do. I know a properly working RO is best, but I have a brand new empty tank and it is eating at me - besides, I need to leak test before the warranty runs out. What would you do: use 15 TDS RO (assuming it doesn't get beter when they change the filters), or use 0 TDS distilled?

[GlassReef]

I would always go for zero TDS, unless you'll only have fish.

[ItsMee]

BTW GlassReef, I clicked your little red house...amazing!

[Mike31154]

You don't need purified water to do a leak test on your tank.

Have you considered trying a second TDS meter just for comparison? I realize you've calibrated yours, but one thing you stated earlier makes me wonder, your meter only reads up to 999 and you're using 1000 calibration fluid? I always thought it's better to calibrate an instrument near the scale you will be actually interested in, which is in this case closer to 0, not 1000. That's why it's recommended to calibrate a salinity refractometer using a 35 solution rather than using distilled or DI water to calibrate it at zero. It's possible you've over adjusted your TDS meter using the 1000 calibration solution and this is making it inacurrate at the low end??

[ItsMee]

I see what you are saying. But that doesn't change that the distilled tests at 0 TDS, if the meter was off in the low end making it higher then it is and the distilled water tests at zero, since it goes around like an unsigned integer that would have to mean the actual TDS of the distilled water is in the 900s. Right?