Opinions on Radium vs Phoenix

LouPhoenix · 09/11/2009, 08:39 PM

The time to replace my 150W DE bulb nears, and I really like the look of both the Radium 20K and the Phoenix 14K. I looked in Sanjay's lighting guide and saw the results of the Radium bulb, but nothing for the phoenix 14K. I'm wondering which bulb puts out more PAR. I'm running a 1 bulb MH Current Outer Orbit fixture with 2 65W dual actinic PCs.

In addition to the question above, can anyone share their experiences with either one of these bulbs? Also, do you know of any online retailers that have either one on sale? any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

nxichau · 09/11/2009, 09:34 PM

Bump... I too am looking at at thesebulbs and want to know what everyones experience has been.

gotfrogs · 09/11/2009, 10:19 PM

I have 250w Phoenix bulbs (with no Actinics) on two of my tanks. I have used them for about 5 years now and have been really happy with them. I like the color, price and their lifespan. That said, I just set up a tank with two 150w MHs and I plan to use 20K Radium bulbs on it.

nxichau · 09/11/2009, 11:26 PM

Is there a reason why you are going with the radium?

LouPhoenix · 09/12/2009, 07:04 AM

From what I understand, the Radiums put out a whiter brighter blue (depending on the ballast, of course) but what i'd really like to know is which one puts out more par.

LouPhoenix · 09/12/2009, 11:58 AM

anyone?

gotfrogs · 09/12/2009, 04:14 PM

I am going with the Radiums on my new tank because I am under the impression that they will have more of a blue look with electronic ballasts and give my LPS that extra pop of color that you would get with Actinics.

I would give the Phoenix bulbs a try they cost about 30% less than the radiums. If you are not happy with them you could always switch them out.

LouPhoenix · 09/15/2009, 08:37 PM

Does anyone know which of the two puts out more par?

PrangeWay · 09/16/2009, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Does anyone know which of the two puts out more par?

hmm check Sanjays site again. He had tests for the Phoenix even like 4 years ago. Should be about 98? for 250W DE on HQI. The Phoenix should put out significantly more par, it's why people who use radiums go 400W.

PW

Plan>B · 09/16/2009, 05:55 PM

Ok... complete Halide noob, but could your explain this in more detail for some one like me.

Quote:

Originally posted by PrangeWay
.... The Phoenix should put out significantly more par, it's why people who use radiums go 400W.

From my take... the Phoenix 250 puts out more PAR then the Radium 400?

LouPhoenix · 09/16/2009, 08:52 PM

On my original post I noted that I checked Sanjay's site and saw the data for the Radium 150W 20K, but nothing for any 150W Phoenix bulbs. I'm not going to compare a 150W Radium to a 250W Phoenix because it wouldn't make any sense to do so.... I am looking for info on 150W bulbs.

With that being said, I'll be more specific: Does anyone know which of the following bulbs puts out more PAR:

Phoenix 14K 150W?
or
Radium 20K 150W?

2006 · 09/16/2009, 10:37 PM

Also interested Phoenix 150w vs Radium 150w par.

PaulErik · 09/16/2009, 11:15 PM

The PAR output will greatly depend on the ballast. The Radium 20,000K 150-watt lamp is actually rated at a higher wattage (160-watts nominal). The only ballast that allows the Radium 150-watt lamp to operate at the full rated wattage is a magnetic ANSI M81 / HQI ballast. With an electronic ballast the PAR is similar for both the Phoenix 150-watt and Radium 150-watt lamp. An electronic ballast actually under drives the Radium 150-watt lamp (operates the lamp below wattage rating). The Radium 150-watt lamp provides higher PAR than the Phoenix 150-watt lamp when operated on a magnetic ballast. The difference was approximately 20 percent on my own set up with a magnetic HQI ballast the last time I tested.

nxichau · 09/16/2009, 11:47 PM

Thx for the info.

reefturkey · 09/17/2009, 12:38 AM

The radium is a very bright 150w bulb with a magnetic ballast. I'm trying the ushio 150w 20k at the moment and will be going back to the radium. I really like it. It has more par than the xm 250W 20k on a magnetic ballast!!! That may not mean a whole lot but it shows just how bright the light is.

LouPhoenix · 09/17/2009, 01:06 AM

I wonder which of the two would perform best on a Current Outer Orbit.

PaulErik · 09/17/2009, 01:28 AM

The Current Outer Orbit fixture uses a common electronic ballast. The PAR output will be about the same with both lamps. The difference is so small and can be expected even from manufacturing tolerances. That ballast will operate both lamps at 150-watts plus or minus a few percent.

stanlalee · 09/17/2009, 02:22 AM

this test has been done and posted at least once with a PAR meter (I'm not going to search it so take my word or search yourself) and the radium put out higher PAR (though I think this matters not since PAR is just one variable to success and BOTH bulbs are proven performers in 150w form).
Given the phoenix is roughly HALF the cost of Radiums ($45-50 vs $90) its hard to justify the Radiums slight PAR and pop advantage. the aquamaxx 14k is closer to the radiums in look than the phoenix.

stanlalee · 09/17/2009, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PaulErik
The Current Outer Orbit fixture uses a common electronic ballast. The PAR output will be about the same with both lamps. The difference is so small and can be expected even from manufacturing tolerances. That ballast will operate both lamps at 150-watts plus or minus a few percent.

PAR measures useful output ONLY in the 400-700nm range. Just because they are operated at the same wattage doesn't mean they have the same USEFUL output. by your theory it would make no difference if it were a high PAR 6500k bulb or a low PAR 20k bulb as long as they were operated at the same wattage.

PaulErik · 09/17/2009, 11:38 AM

I was pointing out the wattage is regulated to 150-watts for both lamps on an electronic ballast. The Radium lamp is under driven and both lamps provide about the same PAR. Only on a magnetic ballast you really see the difference in PAR. The main difference in PAR output is because of the rated wattage difference in the two lamps in question.

jmoney · 09/17/2009, 12:05 PM

all I know is ever since I switched from the aqualight pro stock 10k bulbs to 150w phoenix 14k I have had explosive growth to the point where one of my corals is knocking a rock down

LouPhoenix · 09/18/2009, 08:01 PM

After looking at a number of side by side pics of the phoenix vs. the radium, i'm more inclined to go with the Radium at this point. It seems to bring the same color 'pop' with more brightness.

luther1200 · 09/18/2009, 09:09 PM

I read on another thread a while back that the Raduim has more PAR. But I don't remember which 1. I am pretty sure it was reliable though.

LouPhoenix · 09/18/2009, 09:58 PM

Yes, i've read the same in several places. However, most also agree that the increased PAR is directly affected by the type of ballast used. Electronic ballasts will drive all bulbs at a consistent wattage --potentially under driving a bulb-- whereas magnetic ballasts will permit the bulb to run at its maximum, thus generating more PAR from said bulb. Because of this knowledge (I have electronic ballasts), i'm now basing my decision in looks and reliability instead.

09/11/2009, 08:39 PM	#1
LouPhoenix Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kendall Posts: 870	Opinions on Radium vs Phoenix The time to replace my 150W DE bulb nears, and I really like the look of both the Radium 20K and the Phoenix 14K. I looked in Sanjay's lighting guide and saw the results of the Radium bulb, but nothing for the phoenix 14K. I'm wondering which bulb puts out more PAR. I'm running a 1 bulb MH Current Outer Orbit fixture with 2 65W dual actinic PCs. In addition to the question above, can anyone share their experiences with either one of these bulbs? Also, do you know of any online retailers that have either one on sale? any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! __________________ SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 0 rows returned Current Tank Info: 65 Gallon hexagon tank. 2 Korali55 gal fw planted acidic amazon biotype.

09/12/2009, 07:04 AM	#5
LouPhoenix Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kendall Posts: 870	From what I understand, the Radiums put out a whiter brighter blue (depending on the ballast, of course) but what i'd really like to know is which one puts out more par. __________________ SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 0 rows returned Current Tank Info: 65 Gallon hexagon tank. 2 Korali55 gal fw planted acidic amazon biotype.

09/12/2009, 11:58 AM	#6
LouPhoenix Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kendall Posts: 870	anyone? __________________ SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 0 rows returned Current Tank Info: 65 Gallon hexagon tank. 2 Korali55 gal fw planted acidic amazon biotype.

09/15/2009, 08:37 PM	#8
LouPhoenix Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kendall Posts: 870	Does anyone know which of the two puts out more par? __________________ SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 0 rows returned Current Tank Info: 65 Gallon hexagon tank. 2 Korali55 gal fw planted acidic amazon biotype.

09/16/2009, 08:52 PM	#11
LouPhoenix Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kendall Posts: 870	On my original post I noted that I checked Sanjay's site and saw the data for the Radium 150W 20K, but nothing for any 150W Phoenix bulbs. I'm not going to compare a 150W Radium to a 250W Phoenix because it wouldn't make any sense to do so.... I am looking for info on 150W bulbs. With that being said, I'll be more specific: Does anyone know which of the following bulbs puts out more PAR: Phoenix 14K 150W? or Radium 20K 150W? __________________ SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 0 rows returned Current Tank Info: 65 Gallon hexagon tank. 2 Korali55 gal fw planted acidic amazon biotype.

09/11/2009, 09:34 PM	#2
nxichau Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 47	Bump... I too am looking at at thesebulbs and want to know what everyones experience has been.

09/11/2009, 10:19 PM	#3
gotfrogs Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dickinson, TX Posts: 1,215	I have 250w Phoenix bulbs (with no Actinics) on two of my tanks. I have used them for about 5 years now and have been really happy with them. I like the color, price and their lifespan. That said, I just set up a tank with two 150w MHs and I plan to use 20K Radium bulbs on it.

09/11/2009, 11:26 PM	#4
nxichau Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 47	Is there a reason why you are going with the radium?

09/12/2009, 04:14 PM	#7
gotfrogs Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Dickinson, TX Posts: 1,215	I am going with the Radiums on my new tank because I am under the impression that they will have more of a blue look with electronic ballasts and give my LPS that extra pop of color that you would get with Actinics. I would give the Phoenix bulbs a try they cost about 30% less than the radiums. If you are not happy with them you could always switch them out.

09/16/2009, 10:37 PM	#12
2006 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 730	Also interested Phoenix 150w vs Radium 150w par.

09/16/2009, 11:15 PM	#13
PaulErik Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: North Charleston, SC Posts: 1,703	The PAR output will greatly depend on the ballast. The Radium 20,000K 150-watt lamp is actually rated at a higher wattage (160-watts nominal). The only ballast that allows the Radium 150-watt lamp to operate at the full rated wattage is a magnetic ANSI M81 / HQI ballast. With an electronic ballast the PAR is similar for both the Phoenix 150-watt and Radium 150-watt lamp. An electronic ballast actually under drives the Radium 150-watt lamp (operates the lamp below wattage rating). The Radium 150-watt lamp provides higher PAR than the Phoenix 150-watt lamp when operated on a magnetic ballast. The difference was approximately 20 percent on my own set up with a magnetic HQI ballast the last time I tested.

09/16/2009, 11:47 PM	#14
nxichau Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 47	Thx for the info.

09/17/2009, 12:38 AM	#15
reefturkey Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: So. Cal. Posts: 164	The radium is a very bright 150w bulb with a magnetic ballast. I'm trying the ushio 150w 20k at the moment and will be going back to the radium. I really like it. It has more par than the xm 250W 20k on a magnetic ballast!!! That may not mean a whole lot but it shows just how bright the light is. __________________ Visit my homepage Current Tank Info: 28g JBJ HQI Modified 250w hood, EVC 250w 20k with icecap ballast, Vortech MP20, Deltec mce300, Reefkeeper 2, JBJ Chiller, etc.

09/17/2009, 01:06 AM	#16
LouPhoenix Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kendall Posts: 870	I wonder which of the two would perform best on a Current Outer Orbit. __________________ SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 0 rows returned Current Tank Info: 65 Gallon hexagon tank. 2 Korali55 gal fw planted acidic amazon biotype.

09/17/2009, 01:28 AM	#17
PaulErik Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: North Charleston, SC Posts: 1,703	The Current Outer Orbit fixture uses a common electronic ballast. The PAR output will be about the same with both lamps. The difference is so small and can be expected even from manufacturing tolerances. That ballast will operate both lamps at 150-watts plus or minus a few percent.

09/17/2009, 02:22 AM	#18
stanlalee Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: hampton roads, va Posts: 1,799	this test has been done and posted at least once with a PAR meter (I'm not going to search it so take my word or search yourself) and the radium put out higher PAR (though I think this matters not since PAR is just one variable to success and BOTH bulbs are proven performers in 150w form). Given the phoenix is roughly HALF the cost of Radiums ($45-50 vs $90) its hard to justify the Radiums slight PAR and pop advantage. the aquamaxx 14k is closer to the radiums in look than the phoenix.

09/17/2009, 11:38 AM	#20
PaulErik Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: North Charleston, SC Posts: 1,703	I was pointing out the wattage is regulated to 150-watts for both lamps on an electronic ballast. The Radium lamp is under driven and both lamps provide about the same PAR. Only on a magnetic ballast you really see the difference in PAR. The main difference in PAR output is because of the rated wattage difference in the two lamps in question.

09/17/2009, 12:05 PM	#21
jmoney Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 970	all I know is ever since I switched from the aqualight pro stock 10k bulbs to 150w phoenix 14k I have had explosive growth to the point where one of my corals is knocking a rock down

09/18/2009, 08:01 PM	#22
LouPhoenix Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kendall Posts: 870	After looking at a number of side by side pics of the phoenix vs. the radium, i'm more inclined to go with the Radium at this point. It seems to bring the same color 'pop' with more brightness. __________________ SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 0 rows returned Current Tank Info: 65 Gallon hexagon tank. 2 Korali55 gal fw planted acidic amazon biotype.

09/18/2009, 09:09 PM	#23
luther1200 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NJ, shore Posts: 4,376	I read on another thread a while back that the Raduim has more PAR. But I don't remember which 1. I am pretty sure it was reliable though. __________________ Matt, 65G reef tank Current Tank Info: 65g reef, mix of sps, lps, few softies. Hoping to upgrade within the year.

09/18/2009, 09:58 PM	#24
LouPhoenix Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Kendall Posts: 870	Yes, i've read the same in several places. However, most also agree that the increased PAR is directly affected by the type of ballast used. Electronic ballasts will drive all bulbs at a consistent wattage --potentially under driving a bulb-- whereas magnetic ballasts will permit the bulb to run at its maximum, thus generating more PAR from said bulb. Because of this knowledge (I have electronic ballasts), i'm now basing my decision in looks and reliability instead. __________________ SELECT * FROM users WHERE clue > 0 0 rows returned Current Tank Info: 65 Gallon hexagon tank. 2 Korali55 gal fw planted acidic amazon biotype.