Users of Reef Cystals...

z3r0ko0l · 10/01/2009, 02:13 PM

I recently switched to Reef Crystals and have been having a few problems. In the past Ive used Oceanic, Tropic Marin, and Red Sea Pro.

If I make my mix as per the directions 1/2 cup per gallon, I'm getting the following (tests after 5g RO/DI 1.4lb or 2.5 cups salt and overnight power head mix):

PH 7.9
Alk Normal just above Low (I have only the solution for the cheesy kit left)
Salt Grav. 1.0185 or 25 ppt
Calcium 300 ppm

I'm guessing im going to have to just use more salt in my mix, but this the only mix that has ever come out this low and required this much more salt per gallon. Since I run my tank at 1.024 - 1.025 its really making my investment of 2 160g buckets look more like its gonna be 2 130g/114g buckets not to mention I have the expense of adding more calcium additives.

Is anyone else having this problem? What mix (ratio) are you using if you use this salt? Ive always read this was a good salt and decided to give it a try, am i wrong or do you think this could just be a bad batch?

OCRick · 10/01/2009, 02:43 PM

Did you mix the bucket of salt prior to using it?

BLKTANG · 10/01/2009, 02:45 PM

just add a bit more salt.

luther1200 · 10/01/2009, 03:02 PM

That seems like an excessive amount of salt. I used to make 5 gallons at a time and it only took about 2.25 cups to get 1.026.

Even now I make 17 gallons at a time and it only takes me about 9.5-10 cups instead of 8.5. Which is about the same as it always was for me.

Zestay · 10/01/2009, 03:15 PM

please take your directions and flush them. all that matters is accurate test results =)
1.026 is 1.026
1 cup to 1 gallon is very inaccurate.
just add salt till your "refractormeter"is where you want it. your hydrometer is never where you want it unless its in the trash =)

pmrossetti · 10/01/2009, 03:18 PM

It's usually 1/2 cup per gallon, or 1cup per 2 gallons. Whichever is easier to remember.

usefulidiot213 · 10/01/2009, 03:36 PM

the directions are just an "approx" or a guide. The calcium is normally low in Reef Crystals from what I have been told, which is kinda funny because I always thought they increased the Calcium in reef crystals, and that was the difference between their other salt.

Zestay · 10/01/2009, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmrossetti

It's usually 1/2 cup per gallon, or 1cup per 2 gallons. Whichever is easier to remember.

i was referring more to using volume to calculate proper salinity considering the number of additives to each batch of salt may vary widely. its best to use a refractometer to determine proper sg / ppt

z3r0ko0l · 10/01/2009, 03:41 PM

I just made 1 gallon mix and im mixing with a powerhead as i type this. So far with 1/2 a cup (as per directions) im getting 1.019...still alittle low, and yea thats with the Refractometer not a hydrometer. How much are you using to get to 1.026 (ratio per gallon), im just trying to figure out how far this bucket will go since theres no way im getting close to the 160g. I was also wondering if these where normal numbers. I test each new bucket and these numbers seem to be the most off, and it looks like im gonna have to use more then usual. I always mix per directions and test a new bucket so i know where im gonna be for that buckets mix.

impur · 10/01/2009, 03:43 PM

I switched from Red Sea Coral Pro to Reef Crystals about 6m ago. I find they take a similar amount of salt.

You are adding salt to the water not the other way around right?

usefulidiot213 · 10/01/2009, 03:44 PM

I start with the guided 1/2 cup per gallon, and mix. A few hours later I test, and add more salt accordingly to get it to 1.026.

usefulidiot213 · 10/01/2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by impur

I switched from Red Sea Coral Pro to Reef Crystals about 6m ago. I find they take a similar amount of salt.

You are adding salt to the water not the other way around right?

If you are mixing over night, what would be different if you added salt to the water or water to the salt?

z3r0ko0l · 10/01/2009, 03:49 PM

Ive always added salt to the water...never really thought about doing it the other way around.

usefulidiot213 · 10/01/2009, 04:07 PM

To think about it,
I always added salt to the water as well. Just Curious about what happens if you do it the other way around. Does something bad really happen? Is it like a bad ju-ju thing?

Blownsvt · 10/01/2009, 04:12 PM

i am getting ready to mix to fill my tank for the first time right now. FIlling a 35 gallon tub of RO water as i type this. I am using red sea. we'll see how it goes.

TWallace · 10/01/2009, 04:37 PM

I don't measure cups/gallon. I just add salt til I reach 35ppt. That being said, I do however find both RC and IO to be low pH (7.8) which annoys me. I switched from RC to when I found RC did that, but found IO is the same.

elegance coral · 10/01/2009, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usefulidiot213

To think about it,
I always added salt to the water as well. Just Curious about what happens if you do it the other way around. Does something bad really happen? Is it like a bad ju-ju thing?

Always add water to the mixing container first. If you add the salt first the solution can become super saturated and begin precipitating calcium carbonate. The end result will be a salt water mix that's low in calcium and alkalinity.

reeftank21 · 10/01/2009, 04:47 PM

I agree completely. If you look at the box of Reef Crystals the instructions will give you an approximation for 1.021. The 200 gallon boxes are really only about 150 or 160 gallons at 1.026. They only make 200 gallons at 1.021.
I've been comparing prices of other brands but are unsure on how much they make. Tropic Marin is about $80 for 300 gallon mix but would calculate the same as reef crystals 200 gallon because of how much it takes. I'm just not sure if the Tropic Marin at $80 makes 300 gallons at 1.026.

thanks

pmrossetti · 10/01/2009, 04:48 PM

Anyone still finding brown film with RC?

reeftank21 · 10/01/2009, 04:53 PM

Yes. I just mixed up 40 gallons. Next day after emptying the container it was covered with the film. It doesn't seem to hurt anything. It would seem to be getting worse.

usefulidiot213 · 10/01/2009, 04:55 PM

So it really is bad Ju - Ju.. I believe it's precipitating isn't it? To cause a solid to separate out from a solution as a result of a chemical reaction. Have you seen this happen before? Or is this one of those; that guy from the LFS told me about this one guy who said something about it...

elegance coral · 10/01/2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usefulidiot213

So it really is bad Ju - Ju.. I believe it's precipitating isn't it? To cause a solid to separate out from a solution as a result of a chemical reaction. Have you seen this happen before? Or is this one of those; that guy from the LFS told me about this one guy who said something about it...

Man you read that post fast. As soon as I posted it I noticed the error and edited it. I was hoping no one saw it.

No I didn't get this from some guy at my LFS. I've been at this for over 20 years. The last thing I would do is listen to someone from my LFS.

The same thing happens if you add to much buffer or two part. The water can only hold so much. Once it becomes supersaturated, solid calcium carbonate will form and fall out of suspension. If you add enough salt mix for four gallons of water, then add one gallon at a time, the first gallon could easily become super saturated. This is what it looks like when you add salt first. White powder (calcium carbonate) covers everything and turns the water milky until it settles out.

lordofthereef · 10/01/2009, 07:04 PM

I think the point the OP was trying to make is that he purchased his salt under the assumption that 1/2c/g would be an acceptable mix. Sure, he can add more, but that would make his salt less cost effective than other salts and he/she is asking if any of us have had the same issues. I will chime in and say that I use RC but I get mine from a 200g box with 4x 50g bags in it. I have read people have issues with the bucket mixes. Mine has never needed to deviate from the 1/2c/g ratio.

wetWolger · 10/01/2009, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elegance coral

Always add water to the mixing container first. If you add the salt first the solution can become super saturated and begin precipitating calcium carbonate. The end result will be a salt water mix that's low in calcium and alkalinity.

Not sure if it was said. But the precipitation can also cause a large Ph flux. Thus making the water dangerous as well.

In addition the water should be heated to the tank temp before the salt is added. This is VERY important. If it is not, the salt will struggle to dissolve and could over saturate in specific areas of the tank. Causing precipitation in those areas. To further help reduce this risk it is also important to pour the salt in slowly, and don't let piles of it rest at the bottom of the tub.

Also not sure if this was mentioned....but the water was oxygenated also right? You had a water pump moving it, and the room it was in was not sealed (it needs air flow).

The reason I ask is your Ph seems low. If the water is not oxygenated then the Ph wont stabilize properly. If the Ph never increases high enough, the Ca in the mix will have difficulties dissolving. It is a similar problem as described above.

Once I started doing all the things above, I never saw numbers as bad as yours with Reef Crystals. Hope this helps you.

pmrossetti · 10/01/2009, 07:52 PM

The brown sludge really bothers me. If it was white precipitant it wouldn't bother me as much. But quality, scientifically made sea salt SHOULD dissolve to a clear, clean solution.
Is this too much to ask? Waiting for info on Seachems new aquavitro salt. Hoping it's a good product.

10/01/2009, 02:13 PM	#1
z3r0ko0l Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: So. Cal Posts: 234	Users of Reef Cystals... I recently switched to Reef Crystals and have been having a few problems. In the past Ive used Oceanic, Tropic Marin, and Red Sea Pro. If I make my mix as per the directions 1/2 cup per gallon, I'm getting the following (tests after 5g RO/DI 1.4lb or 2.5 cups salt and overnight power head mix): PH 7.9 Alk Normal just above Low (I have only the solution for the cheesy kit left) Salt Grav. 1.0185 or 25 ppt Calcium 300 ppm I'm guessing im going to have to just use more salt in my mix, but this the only mix that has ever come out this low and required this much more salt per gallon. Since I run my tank at 1.024 - 1.025 its really making my investment of 2 160g buckets look more like its gonna be 2 130g/114g buckets not to mention I have the expense of adding more calcium additives. Is anyone else having this problem? What mix (ratio) are you using if you use this salt? Ive always read this was a good salt and decided to give it a try, am i wrong or do you think this could just be a bad batch? Last edited by z3r0ko0l; 10/01/2009 at 02:19 PM.

10/01/2009, 02:43 PM	#2
OCRick Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 202	Did you mix the bucket of salt prior to using it? __________________ Rick Current Tank Info: LeeMar 50 Gal Cube, MRC Custom Sump, Esshops Cone Skimmer, EcoTech Marine MP10, EcoTech Marine Radion Pro

10/01/2009, 02:45 PM	#3
BLKTANG Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Never,Never Land Posts: 7,061	just add a bit more salt. __________________ We the few have done so much,for so long,for so little.That we are now qualified to do anything with nothing. ____________________________________________________________________________ Current Tank Info: RR 90 Maganvore sump,250w Hamilton fixture,VorTec's ASM skimmer.

10/01/2009, 03:02 PM	#4
luther1200 Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NJ, shore Posts: 4,376	That seems like an excessive amount of salt. I used to make 5 gallons at a time and it only took about 2.25 cups to get 1.026. Even now I make 17 gallons at a time and it only takes me about 9.5-10 cups instead of 8.5. Which is about the same as it always was for me. __________________ Matt, 65G reef tank Current Tank Info: 65g reef, mix of sps, lps, few softies. Hoping to upgrade within the year.

10/01/2009, 03:36 PM	#7
usefulidiot213 Bryan H. Join Date: May 2007 Location: 40th St. & Thunderbird Posts: 1,348	the directions are just an "approx" or a guide. The calcium is normally low in Reef Crystals from what I have been told, which is kinda funny because I always thought they increased the Calcium in reef crystals, and that was the difference between their other salt. __________________ "I would rather be lucky then good." Bryan H. Current Tank Info: 120 AGA- 4x2x2 Mixed Reef. 2 MP40s, Vertex IN-180 Skimmer, RKL Controller for temp control and light timing. 8x 54 Watt T5 lighting.

10/01/2009, 03:15 PM	#5
Zestay Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: gainesville, FL Posts: 1,622	please take your directions and flush them. all that matters is accurate test results =) 1.026 is 1.026 1 cup to 1 gallon is very inaccurate. just add salt till your "refractormeter"is where you want it. your hydrometer is never where you want it unless its in the trash =)

10/01/2009, 03:18 PM	#6
pmrossetti Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cali. Posts: 3,199	It's usually 1/2 cup per gallon, or 1cup per 2 gallons. Whichever is easier to remember.

10/01/2009, 03:41 PM	#9
z3r0ko0l Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: So. Cal Posts: 234	I just made 1 gallon mix and im mixing with a powerhead as i type this. So far with 1/2 a cup (as per directions) im getting 1.019...still alittle low, and yea thats with the Refractometer not a hydrometer. How much are you using to get to 1.026 (ratio per gallon), im just trying to figure out how far this bucket will go since theres no way im getting close to the 160g. I was also wondering if these where normal numbers. I test each new bucket and these numbers seem to be the most off, and it looks like im gonna have to use more then usual. I always mix per directions and test a new bucket so i know where im gonna be for that buckets mix. Last edited by z3r0ko0l; 10/01/2009 at 03:47 PM.

10/01/2009, 03:43 PM	#10
impur Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 4,262	I switched from Red Sea Coral Pro to Reef Crystals about 6m ago. I find they take a similar amount of salt. You are adding salt to the water not the other way around right? __________________ Great spirits often encounter violent opposition from mediocre minds. Current Tank Info: 75gal, 20gal sump, 6-54w T5 TEK

10/01/2009, 03:44 PM	#11
usefulidiot213 Bryan H. Join Date: May 2007 Location: 40th St. & Thunderbird Posts: 1,348	I start with the guided 1/2 cup per gallon, and mix. A few hours later I test, and add more salt accordingly to get it to 1.026. __________________ "I would rather be lucky then good." Bryan H. Current Tank Info: 120 AGA- 4x2x2 Mixed Reef. 2 MP40s, Vertex IN-180 Skimmer, RKL Controller for temp control and light timing. 8x 54 Watt T5 lighting.

10/01/2009, 03:49 PM	#13
z3r0ko0l Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: So. Cal Posts: 234	Ive always added salt to the water...never really thought about doing it the other way around.

10/01/2009, 04:07 PM	#14
usefulidiot213 Bryan H. Join Date: May 2007 Location: 40th St. & Thunderbird Posts: 1,348	To think about it, I always added salt to the water as well. Just Curious about what happens if you do it the other way around. Does something bad really happen? Is it like a bad ju-ju thing? __________________ "I would rather be lucky then good." Bryan H. Current Tank Info: 120 AGA- 4x2x2 Mixed Reef. 2 MP40s, Vertex IN-180 Skimmer, RKL Controller for temp control and light timing. 8x 54 Watt T5 lighting.

10/01/2009, 04:12 PM	#15
Blownsvt Moved On Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 514	i am getting ready to mix to fill my tank for the first time right now. FIlling a 35 gallon tub of RO water as i type this. I am using red sea. we'll see how it goes.

10/01/2009, 04:37 PM	#16
TWallace Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,464	I don't measure cups/gallon. I just add salt til I reach 35ppt. That being said, I do however find both RC and IO to be low pH (7.8) which annoys me. I switched from RC to when I found RC did that, but found IO is the same.

10/01/2009, 04:47 PM	#18
reeftank21 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 215	I agree completely. If you look at the box of Reef Crystals the instructions will give you an approximation for 1.021. The 200 gallon boxes are really only about 150 or 160 gallons at 1.026. They only make 200 gallons at 1.021. I've been comparing prices of other brands but are unsure on how much they make. Tropic Marin is about $80 for 300 gallon mix but would calculate the same as reef crystals 200 gallon because of how much it takes. I'm just not sure if the Tropic Marin at $80 makes 300 gallons at 1.026. thanks __________________ What a mess. Current Tank Info: 240 gallon mixed reef

10/01/2009, 04:48 PM	#19
pmrossetti Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cali. Posts: 3,199	Anyone still finding brown film with RC?

10/01/2009, 04:53 PM	#20
reeftank21 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 215	Yes. I just mixed up 40 gallons. Next day after emptying the container it was covered with the film. It doesn't seem to hurt anything. It would seem to be getting worse. __________________ What a mess. Current Tank Info: 240 gallon mixed reef

10/01/2009, 04:55 PM	#21
usefulidiot213 Bryan H. Join Date: May 2007 Location: 40th St. & Thunderbird Posts: 1,348	So it really is bad Ju - Ju.. I believe it's precipitating isn't it? To cause a solid to separate out from a solution as a result of a chemical reaction. Have you seen this happen before? Or is this one of those; that guy from the LFS told me about this one guy who said something about it... __________________ "I would rather be lucky then good." Bryan H. Current Tank Info: 120 AGA- 4x2x2 Mixed Reef. 2 MP40s, Vertex IN-180 Skimmer, RKL Controller for temp control and light timing. 8x 54 Watt T5 lighting.

10/01/2009, 07:04 PM	#23
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	I think the point the OP was trying to make is that he purchased his salt under the assumption that 1/2c/g would be an acceptable mix. Sure, he can add more, but that would make his salt less cost effective than other salts and he/she is asking if any of us have had the same issues. I will chime in and say that I use RC but I get mine from a 200g box with 4x 50g bags in it. I have read people have issues with the bucket mixes. Mine has never needed to deviate from the 1/2c/g ratio.

10/01/2009, 07:52 PM	#25
pmrossetti Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cali. Posts: 3,199	The brown sludge really bothers me. If it was white precipitant it wouldn't bother me as much. But quality, scientifically made sea salt SHOULD dissolve to a clear, clean solution. Is this too much to ask? Waiting for info on Seachems new aquavitro salt. Hoping it's a good product.