Green water

Nlangan · 10/04/2009, 09:23 AM

Over-caffenated first timer with brand new setup. Tested plumbing with tap, drained 90% (couldn't really drain all the tap water in the plumbing) and replaced with RODI, added salt, tested a few more days. Water was kind of cloudy, I thought maybe it was microbubbles which I hear are pretty common in new setups. Yesterday afternoon I added about 50 lbs of base rock (dried out, no smell). Got up this morning to find I have green water. Could it be an algae bloom? I haven't tested the water but there I've never fed the tank. I found a few bits of organics floating on top of the water after adding the rock (tiny legs and claws, that sort of thing). I can't believe there is live agae on this stuff. Probably should have rinsed off those rocks. Hooked up the skimmer this morning, foam looks pretty much white so far.

Anyway, what do you guys think is causing the green water.

Nlangan · 10/04/2009, 08:30 PM

Water has been green and cloudy all day. Added first pieces of live rock this afternoon-more coming Tuesday. Running carbon to clear the water. Man, that stuff is expensive! Love to hear any theories about why the water is so grimy..

Aquarist007 · 10/04/2009, 09:06 PM

The rock you have added will have to cure and the bacteria will have to cycle---it has lots of die off on it because it was dried out.
You have an algae bloom that should die back after the rock has curred and no longer providing nitrates and phosphates for the algae.
A faster way to clean up the diatom bloom would be to borrow a diatom filter from someone and run it for 24 hours

kcrush4989 · 10/04/2009, 10:18 PM

Best thing to do is run carbon, do NOT turn any lights on, and use some good filter pads. Good flow is also key.

lordofthereef · 10/04/2009, 11:13 PM

Where did you buy the carbon? Carbon is actually pretty cheap.... like 4-5 bucks a pound.

Nlangan · 10/06/2009, 06:40 AM

Update: filter sock, skimmer, & carbon are clearing the water up nicely.

The large online vendor and RC sponsor who sold me the rock promised no algae or pests since the rock was dry. I took that to mean that the rock wouldn't cause a cycle. I thought only damp rock cycled. The stuff that had been completely dried out, well I guess I thought the organics would have dried up and blown away somehow.

Now I'm getting it. All the dead stuff on the rock is decomposing now that it is in water again. Just to be clear - I'm not knocking the vendor. The rock is fantastic. I added 100 lbs to my system after I filled it with water. The rock was so porous that I did not need to remove any water. The water level in my return section is higher. Eyeballing it, that rock displaced much less than 10 Gallons, I'd guess maybe 3. I thought that was pretty wild.

At my LFS; the "economy size" fluval carbon, 58 oz is $27+tax, which works out to $7.45/lb +tax. That's seems like a lot for what is basically charcoal. I'll check online in the future. Do people usually run carbon constantly? I thought it was an occasional kind of thing.

I'll look into diatom filters. I've seen the same advert for one in fish magazines for years - it's around $100. Relative to everything else in this hobby I guess that's reasonable.

Thanks for your help everyone.

Blown 346 · 10/06/2009, 07:32 AM

You shouldnt run carbon all the time, it will rmeove the essential elements from the salt you use. Normally carbon is only run to clear up and polish the water.

Aquarist007 · 10/06/2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blown 346

You shouldnt run carbon all the time, it will rmeove the essential elements from the salt you use. Normally carbon is only run to clear up and polish the water.

or not for the first few days after a water change

Salamander · 10/06/2009, 10:34 PM

Sounds to me that you'll need some live rock to introduce some beneficial bacteria to seed your base rock. IMO your tank development will be kind of slow since the the bacteria will need populate the base rock before it can handle much livestock.

I think the vendor was referring to macro algae which the dry rock should be pretty clear of.

IslandCrow · 10/07/2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

You shouldnt run carbon all the time, it will rmeove the essential elements from the salt you use. Normally carbon is only run to clear up and polish the water.

I don't believe this is true, but you can always ask over in the chemistry forum (they'll also say it's untrue by the way). Although carbon does remove some inorganics, it's mainly removing organics, which do not include anything present in your salt mixture. Any essential elements it might remove are in such small amounts, the effect is completely insignificant. Personally, I run carbon all the time (as do many others). I also always buy it online. It is much, much cheaper. Bulk Reef Supply has very good prices on their carbon. Drs. Foster & Smith is also a good place to buy carbon online.

I'm afraid I can't say much on the green water. It seems very strange to me as well that you'd have an algae bloom of that magnitude with nothing but artificial sea water and dry rock in your tank. Running carbon and turning the lights off both sound like good plans. A diatom filter very well could clear up your water, but I'm not sure I'd run out and buy one just for this reason. Despite the name, diatom filters have nothing to do with battling diatoms. . .but it doesn't sound like you have anyway. It's basically just a mechanical filter used to remove very small (i.e. at the micron level) particulate matter from your water.

Sugar Magnolia · 10/07/2009, 09:57 AM

I agree with Mike. I've been running carbon 24/7 for over 6 years now and it has never had a detrimental effect on my tank.

thegrun · 10/07/2009, 09:58 AM

Just because a rock is dry doesn't mean it doesn't have plenty of organic matter on and in it. If you dry out a sea weed and algae encrusted rock, the organics do not magically disappear, they are still present and only need water to start to decay, which I believe is the source of the problem here...

seapug · 10/07/2009, 10:50 AM

Everything you are experiencing is perfectly normal for a tank that's being run in. I would suggest purchasing at least one or two "real" Live Rocks to seed the system with bacteria, microfauna, and coralline algae. It'll do a lot for the long term health of the system. Keep the skimmer and carbon running and it should clear up in a week or so.

I'm also a big believer in partial water changes during the cycle. That might be a good idea since you're having some green water issues.

Nlangan · 10/09/2009, 11:14 AM

Update.

Thanks for the advice everyone. Water has cleared nicely.

Added 50 lbs Florida aquacultured that was flown in that very afternoon. Magnificent stuff - absolutely encrusted with sponges, tiny starfish, several different kinds of macro algae, corraline (light pink kind as well as the vivid maroon kind), cup corals, bristle worms, gorgonians, tiny white crabs, and so far two bad guys: big red crab and two glass nems that I'm going to have to kill. Dealer told me to look out for thumb splitters. Showed me two they had pulled off the same batch. Didn't see any but a day after putting in the rock I was looking at it and around the back side something ejected a bunch of dirt/debris from a hole with considerable force. Looked like a little bomb going off. Sound like a mantis to you?

One wierd thing I noticed is that this aquacultured stuff is super heavy and displaced lots of water when I put it in. Huge contrast with the uber light base rock. If you are going to aquaculture rock, why not use the super light stuff? Anyway, other than weight I couldn't ask for better live rock. I would think that since the stuff is so fresh that it wouldn't cycle so hard but the guy told me minimum six weeks cycle before putting in cleaning crew.

Again, thanks everyone.

IslandCrow · 10/09/2009, 02:05 PM

Yeah, I've heard good stuff about that rock. One thing I've been warned about, though, is it seems there are a lot of mantis shrimp in Florida waters, so be vigilant for those guys. They have a reputation for making midnight snacks of unsuspecting fish.

10/04/2009, 09:23 AM	#1
Nlangan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 98	Green water Over-caffenated first timer with brand new setup. Tested plumbing with tap, drained 90% (couldn't really drain all the tap water in the plumbing) and replaced with RODI, added salt, tested a few more days. Water was kind of cloudy, I thought maybe it was microbubbles which I hear are pretty common in new setups. Yesterday afternoon I added about 50 lbs of base rock (dried out, no smell). Got up this morning to find I have green water. Could it be an algae bloom? I haven't tested the water but there I've never fed the tank. I found a few bits of organics floating on top of the water after adding the rock (tiny legs and claws, that sort of thing). I can't believe there is live agae on this stuff. Probably should have rinsed off those rocks. Hooked up the skimmer this morning, foam looks pretty much white so far. Anyway, what do you guys think is causing the green water. __________________ Hench 4 Life Current Tank Info: Peaceful mixed reef, 100 g DT, basement sump w/ 40 g fuge, MSX-250, 2x250 w MH lumen bright, GEO 618, RKE runs the show.

10/04/2009, 08:30 PM	#2
Nlangan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 98	Water has been green and cloudy all day. Added first pieces of live rock this afternoon-more coming Tuesday. Running carbon to clear the water. Man, that stuff is expensive! Love to hear any theories about why the water is so grimy.. __________________ Hench 4 Life Current Tank Info: Peaceful mixed reef, 100 g DT, basement sump w/ 40 g fuge, MSX-250, 2x250 w MH lumen bright, GEO 618, RKE runs the show.

10/04/2009, 09:06 PM	#3
Aquarist007 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Canada Posts: 28,240 Blog Entries: 1	The rock you have added will have to cure and the bacteria will have to cycle---it has lots of die off on it because it was dried out. You have an algae bloom that should die back after the rock has curred and no longer providing nitrates and phosphates for the algae. A faster way to clean up the diatom bloom would be to borrow a diatom filter from someone and run it for 24 hours __________________ I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock

10/06/2009, 06:40 AM	#6
Nlangan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 98	Update: filter sock, skimmer, & carbon are clearing the water up nicely. The large online vendor and RC sponsor who sold me the rock promised no algae or pests since the rock was dry. I took that to mean that the rock wouldn't cause a cycle. I thought only damp rock cycled. The stuff that had been completely dried out, well I guess I thought the organics would have dried up and blown away somehow. Now I'm getting it. All the dead stuff on the rock is decomposing now that it is in water again. Just to be clear - I'm not knocking the vendor. The rock is fantastic. I added 100 lbs to my system after I filled it with water. The rock was so porous that I did not need to remove any water. The water level in my return section is higher. Eyeballing it, that rock displaced much less than 10 Gallons, I'd guess maybe 3. I thought that was pretty wild. At my LFS; the "economy size" fluval carbon, 58 oz is $27+tax, which works out to $7.45/lb +tax. That's seems like a lot for what is basically charcoal. I'll check online in the future. Do people usually run carbon constantly? I thought it was an occasional kind of thing. I'll look into diatom filters. I've seen the same advert for one in fish magazines for years - it's around $100. Relative to everything else in this hobby I guess that's reasonable. Thanks for your help everyone. __________________ Hench 4 Life Current Tank Info: Peaceful mixed reef, 100 g DT, basement sump w/ 40 g fuge, MSX-250, 2x250 w MH lumen bright, GEO 618, RKE runs the show.

10/06/2009, 10:34 PM	#9
Salamander Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Flagstaff, Arizona Posts: 2,103	Sounds to me that you'll need some live rock to introduce some beneficial bacteria to seed your base rock. IMO your tank development will be kind of slow since the the bacteria will need populate the base rock before it can handle much livestock. I think the vendor was referring to macro algae which the dry rock should be pretty clear of. __________________ I feel more like myself now than I did before. Current Tank Info: 120g mixed reef, 2 x 250W DE MH, 2 x 54w T5, MSX 200 SKimmer, 2 Koralia 4's, 40g fuge/sump, QT

10/04/2009, 10:18 PM	#4
kcrush4989 Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 326	Best thing to do is run carbon, do NOT turn any lights on, and use some good filter pads. Good flow is also key.

10/04/2009, 11:13 PM	#5
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	Where did you buy the carbon? Carbon is actually pretty cheap.... like 4-5 bucks a pound.

10/06/2009, 07:32 AM	#7
Blown 346 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Rockford, Illinois Posts: 6,596	You shouldnt run carbon all the time, it will rmeove the essential elements from the salt you use. Normally carbon is only run to clear up and polish the water.

10/07/2009, 09:57 AM	#11
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	I agree with Mike. I've been running carbon 24/7 for over 6 years now and it has never had a detrimental effect on my tank. __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.

10/07/2009, 09:58 AM	#12
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	Just because a rock is dry doesn't mean it doesn't have plenty of organic matter on and in it. If you dry out a sea weed and algae encrusted rock, the organics do not magically disappear, they are still present and only need water to start to decay, which I believe is the source of the problem here...

10/07/2009, 10:50 AM	#13
seapug Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: 4980 ft. Posts: 7,954 Blog Entries: 1	Everything you are experiencing is perfectly normal for a tank that's being run in. I would suggest purchasing at least one or two "real" Live Rocks to seed the system with bacteria, microfauna, and coralline algae. It'll do a lot for the long term health of the system. Keep the skimmer and carbon running and it should clear up in a week or so. I'm also a big believer in partial water changes during the cycle. That might be a good idea since you're having some green water issues.

10/09/2009, 11:14 AM	#14
Nlangan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 98	Update. Thanks for the advice everyone. Water has cleared nicely. Added 50 lbs Florida aquacultured that was flown in that very afternoon. Magnificent stuff - absolutely encrusted with sponges, tiny starfish, several different kinds of macro algae, corraline (light pink kind as well as the vivid maroon kind), cup corals, bristle worms, gorgonians, tiny white crabs, and so far two bad guys: big red crab and two glass nems that I'm going to have to kill. Dealer told me to look out for thumb splitters. Showed me two they had pulled off the same batch. Didn't see any but a day after putting in the rock I was looking at it and around the back side something ejected a bunch of dirt/debris from a hole with considerable force. Looked like a little bomb going off. Sound like a mantis to you? One wierd thing I noticed is that this aquacultured stuff is super heavy and displaced lots of water when I put it in. Huge contrast with the uber light base rock. If you are going to aquaculture rock, why not use the super light stuff? Anyway, other than weight I couldn't ask for better live rock. I would think that since the stuff is so fresh that it wouldn't cycle so hard but the guy told me minimum six weeks cycle before putting in cleaning crew. Again, thanks everyone. __________________ Hench 4 Life Current Tank Info: Peaceful mixed reef, 100 g DT, basement sump w/ 40 g fuge, MSX-250, 2x250 w MH lumen bright, GEO 618, RKE runs the show.

10/09/2009, 02:05 PM	#15
IslandCrow Reef Monkey Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Rockledge, Fl Posts: 5,759	Yeah, I've heard good stuff about that rock. One thing I've been warned about, though, is it seems there are a lot of mantis shrimp in Florida waters, so be vigilant for those guys. They have a reputation for making midnight snacks of unsuspecting fish. __________________ All opinions in the above message should be taken with 35 ppt salt. -Mike C. Current Tank Info: I have a reef screen saver on my phone, does that count?