High Nitrate/Nitrite

[Mikey122687]

So my tank has really high nitrate and nitrite. It was fine a couple weeks ago and now all the sudden, it spiked. I went to a LFS and asked and one person told me to do a 30-50% water change, and the other told me to add in cycle/stability (bacteria) and wait a week and do a water change. I dont know what to do and my fish are dying. This is a 80G fish tank, help please.

[jenjen]

How old is your tank?
What livestock do you have, what has died?
Have you tested ammonia?
What's your SG?

Just need a little more info to help you out, but in the meantime you will likely need to do a waterchange, so turn on the RO/DI.

[Mikey122687]

Originally Posted by jenjen

How old is your tank?
What livestock do you have, what has died?
Have you tested ammonia?
What's your SG?

Just need a little more info to help you out, but in the meantime you will likely need to do a waterchange, so turn on the RO/DI.

3 months.

2 clowns, a blue tang, copper band b/f, yellow tang, fireball angel. My pearl jaw, mccosteri flasher wrasse, and lawnmower died.

Im' assuming SG= Salinity Gravity? its at 1.025. And 0 ammonia

[jenjen]

That's a fair bit of livestock to have in a 3 month old tank, unless it was an upgrade. It's possible it either wasn't done cycling when you added fish, or adding them started a cycle. Has anything else changed in your tank, and how long ago did the fish die (ie: did they all die suddenly at once, or was it over a couple of days).

I'd start with a large water change to get any ammonia/nitrite out of the water. Say up to 50%. I'd suggest you buy your own test kits so you can test the water daily. And if you give a little more background on the timeline for the setup and the equipment you have we can hopefully help you stabilize the system before anyone else dies.

I wouldn't add any chemicals at this point.

[Aquarist007]

What are you nitrate levels exactly.
How much live rock do you have

Were you able to get the dead fish out of the tank?

I agree with Jenjen except for adding chemicals---I would suggest Seachem Reef Prime--it neutralizes the ammonia and nitrates in the tank until you can get a handle on where or how you are importing them

Reasons for high nitrate
poor flow
over feeding especially flake food
lack of quality live rock
over loading the tank

[jenjen]

capn_hyliner - do you figure his 0 ammonia reading is false? Nitrate shouldn't harm fish should it? It doesn't do any harm to add Prime if you don't have any ammonia? I've used it before in QT tanks, but never tried it when I didn't actually have ammonia.

[Flipper62]

Originally Posted by capn_hylinur

What are you nitrate levels exactly.
How much live rock do you have

Reasons for high nitrate
poor flow
over feeding especially flake food
lack of quality live rock
over loading the tank

Capn....I agree. Getting anything that is Dead out of the tank. The rotting will cause high levels.

Also, If the temp or salinity has bounced around a lot, that will kill snails...crabs...ECT. that will raise the nitrates.

Then with high nitrates....that can kill corals.....Again, adding to the high levels.

It can be a bad circle unless you get it under control.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would not panic. Despite what the LFS may have told you, nitrite and nitrate are not toxic to marine fish at any reasonable levels. Ammmonia is the only real concern from the nitrogen cycle.

[MarshaW]

I'm new at this, so please excuse me for not knowing the term. I added a green plant, seems like the name starts with a c, to my tank and the nitrate hasn't risen since. The plant kind of reminds me of a grapevine. Can someone give me a name for this plant?

[Zebodog]

Caulerpa?
http://www.reefland.com/rho/0105/images/caulerpa.jpg

[MarshaW]

YES!!! That's the name. Now I'll write it down im my newly started aquarium diary. Thank you Zebo.

[Frogmanx82]

I'm surprised nitrite would be high but not ammonia. Usually high nitrites is an indication of an out of balance bacteria population. While ammonia may test 0 now, it surely didn't at some point. Nitrites will quickly go to zero as the bacteria population blooms to handle it.

I'm guessing too many fish were added at one time and there was a spike.

High nitrates on the other hand are a longer term issue solved by a combination of water changes, anaerobic sites in live rock or a deep sand bed, algae such as caulerpa or chaetomorpha, or carbon dosing.

[Zebodog]

Originally Posted by MarshaW

YES!!! That's the name. Now I'll write it down im my newly started aquarium diary. Thank you Zebo.

Be careful with that stuff.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/nftt/index.php

[MarshaW]

Zebo, I bought it for my 12 gallon tank and it has grown rapidly. I'll read the link you have given me.

[MarshaW]

I just went to the link and that doesn't look like what I have in my tank. The green plant I have actually reminds me of a grapevine with tiny grapes on it. I'll take a picture later and I'll try to upload it.

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by Mikey122687

So my tank has really high nitrate and nitrite. It was fine a couple weeks ago and now all the sudden, it spiked. I went to a LFS and asked and one person told me to do a 30-50% water change, and the other told me to add in cycle/stability (bacteria) and wait a week and do a water change. I dont know what to do and my fish are dying. This is a 80G fish tank, help please.

Nitrite problem and nitrate problem are quite different.

Any detectable nitrite after cycling is due to poor nitrification. In fact, a cycle ends when nitrite drops to zero.

High nitrate indicates poor denitrification.

Denitrification is hard to achieve and some nitrate is not unacceptable.

Nitrificatiion is easy and should be perfect, ie no detectable nitrite or ammonia at all in an established tank.

[cnaegler]

Grape caulerpa, i suspect.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...grape+caulerpa

[Frogmanx82]

Originally Posted by MarshaW

I just went to the link and that doesn't look like what I have in my tank. The green plant I have actually reminds me of a grapevine with tiny grapes on it. I'll take a picture later and I'll try to upload it.

Its still caulerpa and the grape kind can be just as invasive and just as prone to going sexual and causing water issues.

[Zebodog]

Originally Posted by MarshaW

I just went to the link and that doesn't look like what I have in my tank. The green plant I have actually reminds me of a grapevine with tiny grapes on it. I'll take a picture later and I'll try to upload it.

There is varying forms of Caulerpa. While it may look different they all have the potential to cause significant problems if not lit 24hrs/day. The second link I posted was an attempt to give you some additional information that may prevent a great deal of heartache and problems down the road.

Is it in your sump/refugium or your display tank? If you have it in your sump, I would strongly suggest keeping light on it for 24hours a day. If it's in your display tank, Chaeto might be a safer solution.

[MarshaW]

It's the grape caulpera and it has gone crazy. it's in my nano cube. Should I take most of it out and if so, do I trash it or?

[MarshaW]

My emerald crab at all of the first batch of caulerpa but he hasn't touched this, so it has spread like crazy.

[Mikey122687]

I didn't add all those fish in at the same time. More like 2 weeks apart from one another with the exception of the blue tang and yellow tang, which is at the same time.

And i removed all the dead fish the day it died. But i'm adding stability to bring the good bacteria into the tank and neutralize the nitrite. And its weird how i have 0 ammonia with high nitrite, can anyone explain?

[Zebodog]

If you do keep it, make sure you are harvesting it on a regular basis.
Caulerpa, as you've noticed, does a good job of nutrient export (nitrate and phosphate) from the water column; the more it removes to more it grows. When you remove the plant from the tank, the nutrients go right along with it.
If not kept lit 24hrs a day it will likely go "sexual" at some point and release all of those nutrients back into your tank.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Nitrificatiion is easy and should be perfect, ie no detectable nitrite or ammonia at all in an established tank.


I agree that it is nearly always true that they will be zero in an established tank, but it is not "necessary" for nitrite to be zero because, as I stated above, it is not toxic in marine systems. Too many people worry about it because they bring along knowledge from fresh water systems that does not properly translate to marine systems.

I frankly see no reason to ever measure nitrite unless you are just a chemistry lover, simply for the reason that it is rarely ever elevated, and is not a concern even if it is. More likely is that people will just get worked up over a false positive test result for nitrite.

This has more:

Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.htm

[salt h20]

Originally Posted by Mikey122687

I didn't add all those fish in at the same time. More like 2 weeks apart from one another with the exception of the blue tang and yellow tang, which is at the same time.

And i removed all the dead fish the day it died. But i'm adding stability to bring the good bacteria into the tank and neutralize the nitrite. And its weird how i have 0 ammonia with high nitrite, can anyone explain?

The cycle (oversimplified) is Ammonia-Nitrite-Nitrate. A zero reading on ammonia would be normal. The nitrite converting bacteria are playing catch up. Their growth is inhibited by ammonia. Your nitrite peak should subside within a few days, and you'll begin to read nitrate.
But frankly, I think you brought your own problem on. You are stocking too quickly, and too many at a time. I also cant agree that nitrite and nitrate aren't toxic. While ammonia can directly burn the gills of sensitive fish, nitrite will inhibit the transport of oxygen by the blood. Some of the chemists and biologists may disagree with me, but there are studies that support the theory that at the Ph of a salt tank, this does happen. While it may cause no direct harm, it can stress the animal out making it open to other problems. Nitrate is relatively benign to a point, but there is basically no nitrate in NSW, so the task is to get there as close as possible to simulate the natural environment of your fish.
Stop buying fish, start changing some water, and sit back for a while. Give it another month or more to stabilize, and then add one fish. Lather, rinse, repeat.