I bought a tank

[drakedeming]

Ok, I ordered a 33 gallon long from the LFS. It comes in on Tuesday. I already have a 3 stage RO/DI from melev. This is going to be my first reef/marine tank.

I am going to make a custom stand that holds a 38 gallon sump and a 20 gallon QT under it. Now I need to start getting the rest of my equipment.

I plan on drilling the tank and was looking at glass-holes.com since they provide everything you need to drill. My first question is do I go with the 700 gph or the 1500 gph? I plan on being able to keep any type of coral and I do not want to be limited. Based on which kit I get how much pgh return would I need? I am thinking of making the stand a little lower then a regular store bought one, so maybe 3 feet of return piping.

Heater, since my system would be around 60 gallons and I have heard 4 watts per gallon I would need 240 watts of heating, would 2 150 watt heaters be over kill?

Lighting, I remember hearing that reefgeek was a good site to buy lights. The tank is only 12 inches deep and I plan on DIY'ing the lights into my custom made hood. What type of lighting would be sufficient?

Salt and test kits I think I can do on my own as well as a TDS meter and refractometer.

Powerheads, ok I get power outages every summer that last up to 12-24 hours. I like what I have read about the mp40 with battery backup. Is this pump too much for a 33 long? The tank is 4 feet long though. Does the mp20 have battery backup available?

Skimmer, I hear good things about the octopus. Which model would be right for my 60 gallon system?

For my sump, I am using a glass 38 gallon. Do I have to use glass for baffles? Is there a way to mount acrylic sheets instead?


Anything else I forgot? Livestock ideas?


Thanks.

[thegrun]

Here are a few answers (or opinions!)
1. I would go with 700 through the sump maximum. That will give you close to 30 changes per hour in your DT when you factor in the loss of volume with rock and sand.
2. Two 100 watt heaters would be fine unless you let the house get real cold in the winter. The pumps and lights generate plenty of heat. The heaters rarely even come on in my system.
3. I like the look of MH lighting, but T5's would work fine and still allow you to keep high light demand corals. I would go with a 6 or even a 8 bulb T5 set up (including actinics). If you decide on MH, you will need two MH fixtures. I would supplement the MH with two actinics bulbs.
4. Glass baffles will adhere better than acrylic to glass, but I have glued acrylic baffles into glass tanks before, just use a little more silicone, it may not look as clean, but it's a sump not a DT.

[drakedeming]

Originally Posted by thegrun

3. I like the look of MH lighting, but T5's would work fine and still allow you to keep high light demand corals. I would go with a 6 or even a 8 bulb T5 set up (including actinics). If you decide on MH, you will need two MH fixtures. I would supplement the MH with two actinics bulbs.

How would the look of MH lighting differ? Also which would be a hotter setup?


Thanks

[Zebodog]

MH's are a point light source so will see a "shimmer" effect in the water. Not so with T5's. As for heat, a watt is a watt. Generally the higher total wattage will generate the most heat.

[thegrun]

MH gives off a more intense light and produces the shimmer affect since the light comes from a single point source. The down side is that MH also produces more heat.
T5s offer a wider selection in color combinations of bulbs and run cooler, but you will not get that shimmer that MH produce. Check out your LFS and see what the different lights look like in person. I prefer the look of MH, some like T5's, you pick! Good luck and welcome to RC!

[drakedeming]

I will check some out at the LFS.

Any ideas on the other questions?

[drakedeming]

also what would the difference be between 6 and 8 t5's besides the price? Would 6 t5's be sufficient for all types of corals or would I need 8?

[thegrun]

I would think that 6 bulbs would be fine for your tank since it is only 12" deep, even if you are keeping SPS corals or clams at the bottom of the tank. The deeper the tank, the more light (measured in PAR values) you need to get sufficient light to the bottom of the tank. I would use 2 actinic bulbs and 4 daylight bulbs if you decide to go with T5. I like the look of 14,000K or even 20,000K bulbs (the higher the number, the bluer the light) but coral grows a little faster under a 10,000K bulb. 14,000K is a nice compromise to me.

[Zebodog]

You won't be disappointed with a Vortech but consider the mp40w for a 4' tank along with the battery back-up.

[drakedeming]

Originally Posted by Zebodog

You won't be disappointed with a Vortech but consider the mp40w for a 4' tank along with the battery back-up.

1 on each side or 1 total? I would def get the backup. Does it come with wave making capabilities or do I need to buy the wavemaker?

[jflick345]

On a 33g you could probably only fit 4 bulbs since the tank is only 13" wide. However, a quality retro like an IceCap would get you plenty of light in that shallow of a tank. I have a 4x39w IceCap on my 24" tall 45g. Good reflectors count for a lot with T5 lighting

[Zebodog]

One mp40w is capable of flow up to 3200gph so that should be plenty for your application. You could always start with one and if you find that isn't enough, add another later. The mp40w has wireless capability to communicate with other mp40w's so you can sync them up in a variety of ways.
The vortechs have a number of operating modes including long and short pulse modes used to create standing waves - no additional equipment needed.
They are pricey but as a vortech owner, they're worth every penny.

[drakedeming]

Originally Posted by jflick345

On a 33g you could probably only fit 4 bulbs since the tank is only 13" wide. However, a quality retro like an IceCap would get you plenty of light in that shallow of a tank. I have a 4x39w IceCap on my 24" tall 45g. Good reflectors count for a lot with T5 lighting

Is it against RC rules to link me to a setup like this off of the site? Also I am a newb so I have no clue what the retro is, could you explain? I was looking at SLR IceCap retrofit kits on reefgeek. Would I want high output or VHO? Also they seem to sell them already assembled, I am pretty good at putting things together so I assume I don't want that.
This is from their site

T5 high-output fluorescent retrofit kit complete with IceCap SLR individual parabolic reflectors for each bulb made from 96% German reflective aluminum, two Universal AccuStart Triad electronic ballasts, a power-cord and color-coded wire bundle with quick disconnect for each ballast, moisture proof end-caps, standoffs and choice of bulbs from any of our current selection of high-quality lamps. Kit sold complete except for mounting screws. Some assembly required. Ballasts engineered specifically to run T5 high-output bulbs for optimal performance and longer lamp life. (Don't settle for inferior T5 electronic ballasts, like the Workhorse, that are commonly sold with other T5 retrofit kits.) Multiple ballasts allow for independent lamp control. Runs cool and produces virtually no noise. Warranty: 1 year.


I guess what bulbs would I pick? it is a 48 inch 4x54W, the is also the VHO kit. Is everything needed included?

[drakedeming]

Originally Posted by Zebodog

One mp40w is capable of flow up to 3200gph so that should be plenty for your application. You could always start with one and if you find that isn't enough, add another later. The mp40w has wireless capability to communicate with other mp40w's so you can sync them up in a variety of ways.
The vortechs have a number of operating modes including long and short pulse modes used to create standing waves - no additional equipment needed.
They are pricey but as a vortech owner, they're worth every penny.

Sounds like 1 Vortech mp40 will be my start with a battery backup.

[Frogmanx82]

How unusual to ask all these questions before you set it up and buy fish.

I think two heaters is the safer way to go. Likely one will be doing most of the work and the other only come on when the demand is very high. I agree the typical watt per gallon recommendations are a bit high since all the rest of the equipment contributes a steady heat source.

The safety factor is that if one heater goes bad, you have a back up and if for some reason the thermostat goes bad and one heater stays on, one undersized unit won't cook your tank.

[drakedeming]

Originally Posted by Frogmanx82

How unusual to ask all these questions before you set it up and buy fish.

Well I have been keeping freshwater fish for 2 years now and when I started I bought a tank and cycled it but then selected cichlids with the help of the "cichlid guy" at the LFS. Needless to say I don't have any of those cichlids anymore. If I am going to do a reef I am going to do it right. These are living organisms not just entertainment for us.

I was in the same LFS the other day and I looked through all the tanks and found a mandarin. He exhibited classic pinched belly that I had only read about but could clearly see. Some lady asked an employee about it and the employee said it needs some live rock and will eat shrimp cut up. I held my tongue cause I didn't want to get on the bad side of the LFS. In this LFS I have also seen ribbon eels, moorish idols and only a label for a nurse shark, never seen it in stock. They also sell quite a bit of freshwater fish that can only be in 300+ gallon systems and it seems their livestock is always rotating through quickly. However their corals looked pathetic despite a huge system for them. I don't think I will be supporting them anymore.

[Zebodog]

Originally Posted by Frogmanx82

How unusual to ask all these questions before you set it up and buy fish.

It's quite refreshing - not the usual "I just bought a Mandarin and a Dory for my freshly cycled 29 gallon. What should I be feeding them?"

[drakedeming]

Originally Posted by Zebodog

It's quite refreshing - not the usual "I just bought a Mandarin and a Dory for my freshly cycled 29 gallon. What should I be feeding them?"

I do have 1 question about livestock. Is it possible to keep a yellow Tang in this system once up and running and fully cycled. I would not be adding it until my system is very very stable. I know it is only 33 gallon tank but with a 38 gallon sump and 4 feet in length would it be ok? I know I am jumping way ahead of myself on this one. Just wondering. If not no big deal cause I also have a 125 sitting in the cellar waiting for after the 33 is running well for a year or so.

[jflick345]

Originally Posted by drakedeming

Is it against RC rules to link me to a setup like this off of the site? Also I am a newb so I have no clue what the retro is, could you explain? I was looking at SLR IceCap retrofit kits on reefgeek. Would I want high output or VHO? Also they seem to sell them already assembled, I am pretty good at putting things together so I assume I don't want that.
This is from their site

T5 high-output fluorescent retrofit kit complete with IceCap SLR individual parabolic reflectors for each bulb made from 96% German reflective aluminum, two Universal AccuStart Triad electronic ballasts, a power-cord and color-coded wire bundle with quick disconnect for each ballast, moisture proof end-caps, standoffs and choice of bulbs from any of our current selection of high-quality lamps. Kit sold complete except for mounting screws. Some assembly required. Ballasts engineered specifically to run T5 high-output bulbs for optimal performance and longer lamp life. (Don't settle for inferior T5 electronic ballasts, like the Workhorse, that are commonly sold with other T5 retrofit kits.) Multiple ballasts allow for independent lamp control. Runs cool and produces virtually no noise. Warranty: 1 year.


I guess what bulbs would I pick? it is a 48 inch 4x54W, the is also the VHO kit. Is everything needed included?

http://www.reefgeek.com/lighting/T5_...ulbs_by_IceCap

I was told overdriving the bulbs (VHO setup) would be enough light for me to keep clams and sps on the sand bed in my 24" tank so I doubt you want to go that route. Just the High Output would be fine. Might be too intense for many corals. That IceCap SLR retro is what I was talking about, I actually bought my 4x39w IceCap SLR kit from ReefGeek and I recommend them. SLR = single light reflectors. It basically comes with the bulbs, reflectors, bulb clips, end caps, ballasts and wiring kits and in pieces. Pretty simple to put together if you're not afraid of that kind of thing. You just have to mount it yourself which is the only relatively tricky part. It comes with very easy to follow directions and diagrams.

ReefGeek also has great customer service. Just e-mail them any questions you have and they'll usually answer w/in a day. For bulbs, it really depends on the looks you want. I have 1 UVL 75-25, 1 ATI Aquablue special, 1 ATI Blue Plus and 1 UVL 454. Bulbs are easily one of the most confusing aspects of lighting. A lot of it will just come from your personal preference and trial and error

[jflick345]

Also, as far as the 125 you have, if it's an option the larger the tank you have the easier it gets to keep the system stable. Wouldn't be a terrible idea to just set that up instead of the 33g. Just an idea. No problem with the yellow tang then.

[drakedeming]

Originally Posted by jflick345

Also, as far as the 125 you have, if it's an option the larger the tank you have the easier it gets to keep the system stable. Wouldn't be a terrible idea to just set that up instead of the 33g. Just an idea. No problem with the yellow tang then.

Before Doing the 125 I wanted to see if I could set up a smaller and cheaper system. I would prob turn the 33 gallon into a frag tank if I can even grow them. Plus with my house I dunno if the floors can support the 125.

[Zebodog]

Originally Posted by drakedeming

I do have 1 question about livestock. Is it possible to keep a yellow Tang in this system once up and running and fully cycled. I would not be adding it until my system is very very stable. I know it is only 33 gallon tank but with a 38 gallon sump and 4 feet in length would it be ok? I know I am jumping way ahead of myself on this one. Just wondering. If not no big deal cause I also have a 125 sitting in the cellar waiting for after the 33 is running well for a year or so.

Your best to hold off until you have the 125 running. I'm sure a Yellow Tang could survive in a 33, but it wouldn't be happy for long and will become VERY aggressive.

[drakedeming]

Originally Posted by Zebodog

Your best to hold off until you have the 125 running. I'm sure a Yellow Tang could survive in a 33, but it wouldn't be happy for long and will become VERY aggressive.

That's what I thought. I will ask more about stock list later on once I get this tank running

[drakedeming]

Would an mp40 on one side of the tank need another power head on the other side also?

[TP123]

Originally Posted by drakedeming

Would an mp40 on one side of the tank need another power head on the other side also?

Shouldn't, a MP40 moves a LOT of water for your tank size. Even with it set at it's minimum, you're pushing 30x your tank volume per hour from that powerhead alone. If you're planning on LPS or softies, IMO that could be pushing it. If you go with up to 700 gph through the sump as well, it'll be a hurricane in the tank (a little exaggeration, but who doesn't like some hyperbole).

If you want flow on the other side, you can use the sump return to get some flow directed elsewhere.

A MP20 might work better as it'd give you move usable range on the powerhead. It's rated at 500-2000 gph per hour (the MP40 is 1000-3000 gph). With a strong sump return pump, you might even get away with a MP10 if you've got LPS or other more delicate corals.