My tanks is not cycling?

BIGG D · 10/25/2009, 10:26 AM

I dont think so anyway.

I am upgrading from a 75 to a 175.

I have had a lot of rock curing for months waiting to go in. I finally got my sump up and running and she has been up for about a month. All water parms are stable. I added a couple of cocktail shrimp to my sump a week ago and still no spikes of anykind. I also seeded the 175 with some very established LR and LS from my 75 and I even see pods in the display rock now.But amonia and nitrites are 0.0.

Did I miss something?

avaneaton2000 · 10/25/2009, 11:55 AM

If you had rock curing for months and added established rock you already have cycled rock. If everything is zero that means your natural filtration is working, sounds like your good to go.

BIGG D · 10/26/2009, 08:40 AM

I have read here that it is a good idea to force a cycle to encourage the beneficial bacteria.

I only put a couple of cocktail shrimp in my sump to initiate am amonia spike. Its a 175 display with about 100 gallon sump.

Maybe I should have put in an entire order of shrimp...not just an appetizer

Mentat · 10/26/2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avaneaton2000

If you had rock curing for months and added established rock you already have cycled rock. If everything is zero that means your natural filtration is working, sounds like your good to go.

+1, as long as you add organisms a few at a time and let system stabilize between additions, should have no problem with cycling.

moze229 · 10/26/2009, 10:05 AM

You shouldn't have to "force" a cycle. As mentioned, it's not the water that cycles as much as the other items in the tank that support beneficial bacteria growth. I've done 100% water changes in the past and did not have a cycle occur.

Matt

BIGG D · 10/26/2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentat

+1, as long as you add organisms a few at a time and let system stabilize between additions, should have no problem with cycling.

By organisms...you mean livestock?
I put a broken off branch of digitata in about 3 weeks ago...and it looks ok.
Put a shroom covered rock in this weekend.

I am wanting add a shoal of chromis.

Still havent fired up the skimmer though. I assumed without any real bio-load to speak of...I didnt need it yet.

Any thoughts???

Thanks!

joejoe1055 · 10/26/2009, 03:32 PM

i would go ahead and fire up the skimmer

wooden_reefer · 10/26/2009, 03:34 PM

There is no such a thing as forcing a cycle.

A cycle goes or not go based on the same consideration.

wooden_reefer · 10/26/2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGG D

I dont think so anyway.

I am upgrading from a 75 to a 175.

I have had a lot of rock curing for months waiting to go in. I finally got my sump up and running and she has been up for about a month. All water parms are stable. I added a couple of cocktail shrimp to my sump a week ago and still no spikes of anykind. I also seeded the 175 with some very established LR and LS from my 75 and I even see pods in the display rock now.But amonia and nitrites are 0.0.

Did I miss something?

You see no ammonia because of two things.

1. Your shrimp has not been emusified, ie blended into milk. This matters a lot on the rate of decay and release of ammonia.

2. Your rock is at least weakly cycled, or it can be already strongly cycled.

To sum up, the ammonia generated is within the nitrification capacity of your LR.

All systems cycle or min-cycle. There will always be a magnitude of ammonia high enough for ammonia to persist, no matter how well a cycle has already taken place.

If a well cycled medium can handle 2 ppm in a day, and you put in 4 ppm all at once, you will get a cycle or mini-cycle.

To really test the nitrification capacity of a cycled medium, it is better that the ammonia be a sharp pulse. This means that the shrimp should be emulsified into milk before adding. Otherwise, the release of ammonia by decay will be too slow to really test a system.

ctripi · 10/26/2009, 05:24 PM

Add a chromis; I actually started with a Tang once my algae was cycling.....You shouldn't have to add a dead shrimp to cycle. The shrimp will cause a rapid release of nutrients and it may be at the risk of any invertebrates or sponge/tunicate found within your rock. The addition of a live fish that you have to feed will cause the tank to re-cycle to the new bioload rather than a temporary load that won't be sustained. The coral doesn't represent much of an impact on your system.

PS. If you're going to lean toward fancier corals (LPS/SPS) don't add mushrooms.

Playa-1 · 10/26/2009, 09:19 PM

I agree, It's sounds like you're good to go

Metal Man 1221 · 10/26/2009, 10:25 PM

also a few shrimp in a 175 wont add close to enough ammonia to even be detectable, even with out the the nitrification process, just slowly start adding your livestock etc. and you will most likely notice a very small spike which (earlier mentioned) would be a mini cycle, but will not likely do any damage, as long as you take you time in building up your bio load, remember: nothing good happens fast in a reef tank, supposing you will be making one

good luck with every thing

BIGG D · 10/27/2009, 04:58 AM

Ok.
Sounds like the consensus is I have avoided a big "detectable" cycle. I will slowly begin to add my livestock. I will be moving all the coral and fish from my 75 over little by little.

A bit more advice needed here.

My 75 is full of very healthy LR most of which has coral attached. I would love to begin moving the some of these peices over to the new tank then slowly add the fish. Should I move the corals over slowly as well or are corals more tolerant of this type of change. I have kind of a mixed reef and will be moving a large Starry Night Acro, a couple of large Monti caps, some candy cane, digitata and some shrooms.

Also going from T5 to 250wMH. I have the MH set up a little higher off the water and will go to a much shorter photo period as well.

Any thoughts?

Playa-1 · 10/27/2009, 05:49 AM

You can go ahead and move all the corals in at once. Just go very slow on adding fish to the tank.

BIGG D · 10/27/2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playa-1

You can go ahead and move all the corals in at once. Just go very slow on adding fish to the tank.

Thats awesome!
Thanks!

I really wanted to put in a shoal of Blue Chromis first before I started moving my current fish over.

Do ya think 5 is too many to start with?
I here they do better when you add them all at once.

Playa-1 · 10/27/2009, 06:17 PM

I suspect it would work out just fine for you but If it were me, I would add them later.

lllosingit · 10/28/2009, 12:22 AM

One thing that might help your corals get acclimated to the new tank is to leave them in the 75 for a short time while mixing the water between the two systems. Take 10 gallons out of the 75 and dump into the 175 and 10 out of the 175 and dump into the 75.
Do that a couple times a day for three or four days and the water chemistry between the two should start to mirror each other so you corals will adjust easily.

BIGG D · 10/28/2009, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lllosingit

One thing that might help your corals get acclimated to the new tank is to leave them in the 75 for a short time while mixing the water between the two systems. Take 10 gallons out of the 75 and dump into the 175 and 10 out of the 175 and dump into the 75.
Do that a couple times a day for three or four days and the water chemistry between the two should start to mirror each other so you corals will adjust easily.

Great idea! I dont really have time to do this multiple times per day, but I should be able to do it at least once per day. Maybe more over the weekend. I wouldnt be able to do move any corals for a couple of weeks anyway...so this is good aclimation time.
Thanks!

wooden_reefer · 10/28/2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metal Man 1221

also a few shrimp in a 175 wont add close to enough ammonia to even be detectable, even with out the the nitrification process, just slowly start adding your livestock etc. and you will most likely notice a very small spike which (earlier mentioned) would be a mini cycle, but will not likely do any damage, as long as you take you time in building up your bio load, remember: nothing good happens fast in a reef tank, supposing you will be making one

good luck with every thing

A medium shrimp in a 175 will give about 0.5 ppm, if it is emulsified and decay happens at once.

mr chris · 10/28/2009, 05:53 PM

I would agree acclimate and adding corals first then add fish a weeks later to a couple of months .When I moved up to my 125 from my 55 it took me about 4 months and a 2 years later i am now moving to a 210.

BIGG D · 10/29/2009, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr chris

I would agree acclimate and adding corals first then add fish a weeks later to a couple of months .When I moved up to my 125 from my 55 it took me about 4 months and a 2 years later i am now moving to a 210.

Yes.
I am in no hurry. I guess my only concern now is if I move all this coral and sweet LR over, my fishys will stress out cuz I am bustin up the house.
There gonna freak!

Mentat · 10/29/2009, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGG D

By organisms...you mean livestock?...

Yes.

10/25/2009, 10:26 AM	#1
BIGG D Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATLANTA Posts: 262	My tanks is not cycling? I dont think so anyway. I am upgrading from a 75 to a 175. I have had a lot of rock curing for months waiting to go in. I finally got my sump up and running and she has been up for about a month. All water parms are stable. I added a couple of cocktail shrimp to my sump a week ago and still no spikes of anykind. I also seeded the 175 with some very established LR and LS from my 75 and I even see pods in the display rock now.But amonia and nitrites are 0.0. Did I miss something?

10/26/2009, 10:05 AM	#5
moze229 Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Triangle Area, NC Posts: 678	You shouldn't have to "force" a cycle. As mentioned, it's not the water that cycles as much as the other items in the tank that support beneficial bacteria growth. I've done 100% water changes in the past and did not have a cycle occur. Matt __________________ The best things in life are free....except for reef tanks :( "What don't kill you - make you more strong." - James Hetfield Current Tank Info: 24 Aquapod w/120w LED Bridgelux 55 X 3 - Softies and LPS

10/26/2009, 03:32 PM	#7
joejoe1055 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: cullman,Alabama Posts: 739	i would go ahead and fire up the skimmer __________________ grrrrr Current Tank Info: 180 reef in progress

10/26/2009, 10:25 PM	#12
Metal Man 1221 FMMAS Executive Director Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Fargo ND Posts: 1,504	also a few shrimp in a 175 wont add close to enough ammonia to even be detectable, even with out the the nitrification process, just slowly start adding your livestock etc. and you will most likely notice a very small spike which (earlier mentioned) would be a mini cycle, but will not likely do any damage, as long as you take you time in building up your bio load, remember: nothing good happens fast in a reef tank, supposing you will be making one good luck with every thing __________________ "My advise is, always look at their aquarium before you take their advise. Because alot of people give advise and they havnt got a clue" ~David Saxby~ "Only after the last tree's cut and the last river poisoned only after the last fish is caught will you find that money cannot be eaten" ~Lamb of God~ Current Tank Info: 125g DT, 45g sump ---- 57g Illuminata, custom sump

10/28/2009, 12:22 AM	#17
lllosingit Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Des Moines Iowa Posts: 3,190	One thing that might help your corals get acclimated to the new tank is to leave them in the 75 for a short time while mixing the water between the two systems. Take 10 gallons out of the 75 and dump into the 175 and 10 out of the 175 and dump into the 75. Do that a couple times a day for three or four days and the water chemistry between the two should start to mirror each other so you corals will adjust easily. __________________ It Was Funny Until Someone Got Hurt..........Then It Was Hilarious! Current Tank Info: DD 250 60x36x27 450 gallon total system.

10/25/2009, 11:55 AM	#2
avaneaton2000 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Hillsboro Beach, FL Posts: 732	If you had rock curing for months and added established rock you already have cycled rock. If everything is zero that means your natural filtration is working, sounds like your good to go.

10/26/2009, 08:40 AM	#3
BIGG D Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATLANTA Posts: 262	I have read here that it is a good idea to force a cycle to encourage the beneficial bacteria. I only put a couple of cocktail shrimp in my sump to initiate am amonia spike. Its a 175 display with about 100 gallon sump. Maybe I should have put in an entire order of shrimp...not just an appetizer

10/26/2009, 03:34 PM	#8
wooden_reefer Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 4,670	There is no such a thing as forcing a cycle. A cycle goes or not go based on the same consideration.

10/26/2009, 05:24 PM	#10
ctripi Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Easy bay , ca Posts: 677	Add a chromis; I actually started with a Tang once my algae was cycling.....You shouldn't have to add a dead shrimp to cycle. The shrimp will cause a rapid release of nutrients and it may be at the risk of any invertebrates or sponge/tunicate found within your rock. The addition of a live fish that you have to feed will cause the tank to re-cycle to the new bioload rather than a temporary load that won't be sustained. The coral doesn't represent much of an impact on your system. PS. If you're going to lean toward fancier corals (LPS/SPS) don't add mushrooms.

10/26/2009, 09:19 PM	#11
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	I agree, It's sounds like you're good to go

10/27/2009, 04:58 AM	#13
BIGG D Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: ATLANTA Posts: 262	Ok. Sounds like the consensus is I have avoided a big "detectable" cycle. I will slowly begin to add my livestock. I will be moving all the coral and fish from my 75 over little by little. A bit more advice needed here. My 75 is full of very healthy LR most of which has coral attached. I would love to begin moving the some of these peices over to the new tank then slowly add the fish. Should I move the corals over slowly as well or are corals more tolerant of this type of change. I have kind of a mixed reef and will be moving a large Starry Night Acro, a couple of large Monti caps, some candy cane, digitata and some shrooms. Also going from T5 to 250wMH. I have the MH set up a little higher off the water and will go to a much shorter photo period as well. Any thoughts?

10/27/2009, 05:49 AM	#14
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	You can go ahead and move all the corals in at once. Just go very slow on adding fish to the tank.

10/27/2009, 06:17 PM	#16
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	I suspect it would work out just fine for you but If it were me, I would add them later.

10/28/2009, 05:53 PM	#20
mr chris Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: United States florida Posts: 65	I would agree acclimate and adding corals first then add fish a weeks later to a couple of months .When I moved up to my 125 from my 55 it took me about 4 months and a 2 years later i am now moving to a 210.