Ever turn off your pumps and forget they were off? I did : (

Chihuahua6 · 10/25/2009, 02:30 PM

I am so upset. I fed the fish their last meal last night but this time decided to turn the pumps off. I had just changed the flow and the food was blowing around. I forgot to turn them back on and went to sleep, woke up and found two of my prized possesions dead and the other lying on the bottom gasping for air. My prized possessions are my Yellow Pyramid Butterflyfish.

I started sobbing like a baby. The larger one made it but the slightly smaller ones were gone. I have had them for over a year. They arrived in horrible shape, paper thin and had flukes. I nursed them back to health, fattened them up and watched them grow. They were 4 inches or so.

Luckily my 4 1/2" Starry Blenny that's been with me for 3 1/2 years made it as well as my Regal Angel, Bicolor Blenny and two Damsels.

This was a rude awakening. I will never turn the pumps off without setting an alarm to remind me to turn them back on. Another scenario comes to mind though. This can happen if the power goes out and I'm sleeping. I could wake up to this any day. After this incident I am planning on purchasing some Vortec powerheads with the battery back ups for my 375.

Hopefully this post will help someone avoid this terrible mistake.

Ruskin · 10/25/2009, 02:35 PM

Sorry to hear about that, that really is upsetting.

As for the battery backups, I bought an APC unit for my tank a year or so ago when dell had them on sale. You may want to check into it, as I got a $400 unit for under 200 shipped.

Again, sorry about the losses.

Chihuahua6 · 10/25/2009, 02:40 PM

Thanks Ruskin. Do you know how long yours will power up something like a Hydor Magnum? Does it run a certain wattage pump for X amount of hours?

Ruskin · 10/25/2009, 02:47 PM

It ran a low watt (about 5, I cant remember off hand) for about 24 hours. I actually had to use it a number of times and it was great. The lower/less watts you run off it the longer the battery will last. You would really only need one/two small pumps to keep the water oxygenated enough

Chihuahua6 · 10/25/2009, 02:51 PM

One or two small pumps in a 380 gallon tank? I figured I would need one or two larger pumps. The wattage is low on the Magnums though.

Can you tell me which model APC unit you have?

NexDog · 10/25/2009, 03:03 PM

Hi Amanda,

I have just 2 Tunzes and the return and find the return pump is enough to keep the air circulating in the tank. Before I pit in the Tunzes my Vortechs were broken and I had only the super weak retun for flow and all the fish were fine. Did you turn off the return too?

I've been looking for a decent UPS to power the return pump in case of an outage while sleeping but in the threads I posted I was told that even the expensive ones would only power the return pump for a few hours. I'm looking for something that work for 12-24 hours.

Hawkdl2 · 10/25/2009, 03:08 PM

Sorry to hear about your loss. Really nice controllers that were extravagances just a few year sago cost $100-150 today and significantly reduce the likelihood of this type of thing happening (with feed cycles and such).

Chihuahua6 · 10/25/2009, 03:15 PM

Nexdog these fish were temporarily housed in a 75 with no sump so there was no circulation at all in a crowded tank. I went through a lot of trouble to move these fish as well as a house full of stuff so you can see how much they mean to me.

Hawk it does seem like one Vortec with the backup is an economical choice when you consider the battery life you get as well as all the other features.

DaveMorris · 10/25/2009, 03:35 PM

That is sad the hear about. Sorry for your losses. To avoid it in the future, I would invest in a controller. If you are happy with how you have everything set up now, just get a simple controller that you can put your pumps on. My RKE is set up so that I hit a standby and the return pumps and my closed loop pump shut down for 10 minutes. They will automatically come back on ten minutes later, whether I remember it or not. Controllers that can do this are cheap, too. RKL is only $99 and would work just fine for this. The ACjr has the same ability as well and they are not much more money than the RKL.

What do you think killed the fish? Just the lack of circulation in the tank? Or was the water temp too low because the water wasn't being heated? Battery backups for Vortechs will not help if your problem is not circulating water through your sump.

Chihuahua6 · 10/25/2009, 03:53 PM

It was strictly the circulation Dave. The heater was still plugged in.

lordofthereef · 10/25/2009, 04:01 PM

Been there done that. Now I don't turn any pumps off. Doesn't seem to phase the fish when feeding.

Sorry for your loss.

d0ughb0y · 10/25/2009, 04:06 PM

I used to forget to turn pumps back on, and as suggested, a controller will greatly help.

Pimps · 10/25/2009, 04:06 PM

Wow, sorry to hear about that. Nobody wants to wake up to something like dead fishies

I'm def going to look into a battery backup for my 35g right now, my power goes out VERY often and this is something that I totally overlooked!

If anything, at least you helped bring awareness to a newbie

mcarroll · 10/25/2009, 04:13 PM

I have plain heavy duty timers on all my pumps that are preset to have a ~3 hour period set to OFF and the rest of the day set to "ON".

When I feed or do maintenance, I switch the pump timers to TIMER mode and swing the timer dial around so the OFF period starts now. Even if I forget to power up, they're back on in a few hours.

Poor man's RKL.

Sea-nut · 10/25/2009, 05:28 PM

How do they keep the fish alive for almost 24 hours in shipping in a small bag ?

AMDphenomx4 · 10/25/2009, 05:44 PM

Pure oxygen. On another note yesterday i forgot to plug in one of my heaters, Tank temp dropped to 75.6. Normally 76.9.

bigworm175 · 10/25/2009, 05:49 PM

I know this might be a dumb question but I don't understand how fishes died in such a short time if it was just flow that stopped. Am I missing something?

sahin · 10/25/2009, 06:03 PM

bigworm: with no flow in a closed system the water is not being agitated and hence dissolved oxygen in the water runs out. Moving water = adequate gaseous exchange for depleted oxygen to be replenished.

Larger, more muscular fishes need more oxygen typically and will be affected most IMO.

Amanda; really sad what happened to your fishes. I feel bad enough reading about them, so I can only imagine how you must have felt. But dont dwell on it too much. IMO get one of the larger Vortechs and a batter backup. They run for at least 24hours and double that if you add two batteries.

Live Rocker · 10/25/2009, 06:06 PM

sorry for your loss - that is scary - I have inadvertently left my power heads off for a few hours

Chihuahua6 · 10/25/2009, 06:16 PM

Bigworm these fish are very active and fairly large. The tank is temporary and too small to house these fish long term. So now you have three very active fish that consume large amounts of oxygen in a tank that can only hold so much oxygen. The pumps were probably off for twelve hours.

If the fish were still in my 280 gallon I'm sure they would have been fine because that tank was lightly stocked which is the way I normally run my displays. I didn't want to sell all of my fish when I moved so I set up these two tanks until my house under construction is finished. It really sucks that I won't be able to see them in their new home (and my new home.)

bigworm175 · 10/25/2009, 06:17 PM

Thanks Sahin. I don't run a closed loop so I don't know much about it. Sad you lost your fish Amanda.

Chihuahua6 · 10/25/2009, 06:20 PM

Thanks Sahin. I have had fish for thirty years and I never cried over losing any until today. These guys were my babies, fed them 10 times a day to nurse them back to health.

After doing some research I am definitely going to purchase a Vortec and battery backup. I just need to find a way to use it on 1" acrylic. I'm thinking of routing out a circle in the back of the tank to a 3/4" thickness.

BornToReefKeep · 10/25/2009, 06:21 PM

I did this once for my skimmer and did not realize it until I went to clean my skimmer cup again in 4 days.

Ruskin · 10/25/2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chihuahua6

One or two small pumps in a 380 gallon tank? I figured I would need one or two larger pumps. The wattage is low on the Magnums though.

Can you tell me which model APC unit you have?

Maybe more, but you'd really only need to have the water moving at the surface to help with oxygenation, so if you can achieve that you should be ok. The model I have is an APC Smart-UPS 1500. If that doesnt fit your need on a tank that large you may need to look into a generator as multiple battery backups just wouldn't cut it.

ser_renely · 10/25/2009, 08:12 PM

Sorry to hear that, it is so easy.

10/25/2009, 02:30 PM	#1
Chihuahua6 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Hempstead, NY Posts: 2,124	Ever turn off your pumps and forget they were off? I did : ( I am so upset. I fed the fish their last meal last night but this time decided to turn the pumps off. I had just changed the flow and the food was blowing around. I forgot to turn them back on and went to sleep, woke up and found two of my prized possesions dead and the other lying on the bottom gasping for air. My prized possessions are my Yellow Pyramid Butterflyfish. I started sobbing like a baby. The larger one made it but the slightly smaller ones were gone. I have had them for over a year. They arrived in horrible shape, paper thin and had flukes. I nursed them back to health, fattened them up and watched them grow. They were 4 inches or so. Luckily my 4 1/2" Starry Blenny that's been with me for 3 1/2 years made it as well as my Regal Angel, Bicolor Blenny and two Damsels. This was a rude awakening. I will never turn the pumps off without setting an alarm to remind me to turn them back on. Another scenario comes to mind though. This can happen if the power goes out and I'm sleeping. I could wake up to this any day. After this incident I am planning on purchasing some Vortec powerheads with the battery back ups for my 375. Hopefully this post will help someone avoid this terrible mistake. __________________ Leah Amanda Current Tank Info: First salt tank 1985, current tank 150 g acrylic

10/25/2009, 02:40 PM	#3
Chihuahua6 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Hempstead, NY Posts: 2,124	Thanks Ruskin. Do you know how long yours will power up something like a Hydor Magnum? Does it run a certain wattage pump for X amount of hours? __________________ Leah Amanda Current Tank Info: First salt tank 1985, current tank 150 g acrylic

10/25/2009, 02:51 PM	#5
Chihuahua6 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Hempstead, NY Posts: 2,124	One or two small pumps in a 380 gallon tank? I figured I would need one or two larger pumps. The wattage is low on the Magnums though. Can you tell me which model APC unit you have? __________________ Leah Amanda Current Tank Info: First salt tank 1985, current tank 150 g acrylic

10/25/2009, 03:03 PM	#6
NexDog Snail Killer Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kyushu, Japan Posts: 4,804	Hi Amanda, I have just 2 Tunzes and the return and find the return pump is enough to keep the air circulating in the tank. Before I pit in the Tunzes my Vortechs were broken and I had only the super weak retun for flow and all the fish were fine. Did you turn off the return too? I've been looking for a decent UPS to power the return pump in case of an outage while sleeping but in the threads I posted I was told that even the expensive ones would only power the return pump for a few hours. I'm looking for something that work for 12-24 hours. __________________ Laurence Flynn 340g In-Wall Envision Tank and 150g Sump. Current Tank Info: Deltec 902, PFO hood with 3x400w Radium 20k and 4x96w PC's. Hammerhead closed loop - and 2 x Tunze 6105 (and Vortech still sucks).

10/25/2009, 03:08 PM	#7
Hawkdl2 Mad Scientist Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Claremont, Ca Posts: 2,233	Sorry to hear about your loss. Really nice controllers that were extravagances just a few year sago cost $100-150 today and significantly reduce the likelihood of this type of thing happening (with feed cycles and such). __________________ Larry Current Tank Info: 120g mixed reef.

10/25/2009, 02:35 PM	#2
Ruskin Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 373	Sorry to hear about that, that really is upsetting. As for the battery backups, I bought an APC unit for my tank a year or so ago when dell had them on sale. You may want to check into it, as I got a $400 unit for under 200 shipped. Again, sorry about the losses.

10/25/2009, 02:47 PM	#4
Ruskin Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 373	It ran a low watt (about 5, I cant remember off hand) for about 24 hours. I actually had to use it a number of times and it was great. The lower/less watts you run off it the longer the battery will last. You would really only need one/two small pumps to keep the water oxygenated enough

10/25/2009, 03:15 PM	#8
Chihuahua6 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Hempstead, NY Posts: 2,124	Nexdog these fish were temporarily housed in a 75 with no sump so there was no circulation at all in a crowded tank. I went through a lot of trouble to move these fish as well as a house full of stuff so you can see how much they mean to me. Hawk it does seem like one Vortec with the backup is an economical choice when you consider the battery life you get as well as all the other features. __________________ Leah Amanda Current Tank Info: First salt tank 1985, current tank 150 g acrylic

10/25/2009, 03:35 PM	#9
DaveMorris VP, SDMAS Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Sunny San Diego, CA Posts: 1,309	That is sad the hear about. Sorry for your losses. To avoid it in the future, I would invest in a controller. If you are happy with how you have everything set up now, just get a simple controller that you can put your pumps on. My RKE is set up so that I hit a standby and the return pumps and my closed loop pump shut down for 10 minutes. They will automatically come back on ten minutes later, whether I remember it or not. Controllers that can do this are cheap, too. RKL is only $99 and would work just fine for this. The ACjr has the same ability as well and they are not much more money than the RKL. What do you think killed the fish? Just the lack of circulation in the tank? Or was the water temp too low because the water wasn't being heated? Battery backups for Vortechs will not help if your problem is not circulating water through your sump. __________________ Dave My 130g tank: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2387989 Current Tank Info: 130g build in progress

10/25/2009, 03:53 PM	#10
Chihuahua6 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Hempstead, NY Posts: 2,124	It was strictly the circulation Dave. The heater was still plugged in. __________________ Leah Amanda Current Tank Info: First salt tank 1985, current tank 150 g acrylic

10/25/2009, 04:01 PM	#11
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	Been there done that. Now I don't turn any pumps off. Doesn't seem to phase the fish when feeding. Sorry for your loss. __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

10/25/2009, 04:06 PM	#12
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	I used to forget to turn pumps back on, and as suggested, a controller will greatly help.

10/25/2009, 04:06 PM	#13
Pimps Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 239	Wow, sorry to hear about that. Nobody wants to wake up to something like dead fishies I'm def going to look into a battery backup for my 35g right now, my power goes out VERY often and this is something that I totally overlooked! If anything, at least you helped bring awareness to a newbie __________________ Current Project: 35gallon tank, BakPak2, 2inch sand bed black Tahitian sand, 15lbs cured Fiji rock - Currently cycling Current Tank Info: 25g f/w, 35g s/w

10/25/2009, 04:13 PM	#14
mcarroll Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Northern VA Posts: 327	I have plain heavy duty timers on all my pumps that are preset to have a ~3 hour period set to OFF and the rest of the day set to "ON". When I feed or do maintenance, I switch the pump timers to TIMER mode and swing the timer dial around so the OFF period starts now. Even if I forget to power up, they're back on in a few hours. Poor man's RKL.

10/25/2009, 05:28 PM	#15
Sea-nut Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 263	How do they keep the fish alive for almost 24 hours in shipping in a small bag ?

10/25/2009, 05:44 PM	#16
AMDphenomx4 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 170	Pure oxygen. On another note yesterday i forgot to plug in one of my heaters, Tank temp dropped to 75.6. Normally 76.9.

10/25/2009, 05:49 PM	#17
bigworm175 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Denver Posts: 418	I know this might be a dumb question but I don't understand how fishes died in such a short time if it was just flow that stopped. Am I missing something?

10/25/2009, 06:03 PM	#18
sahin Ultimate Reefer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 8,540	bigworm: with no flow in a closed system the water is not being agitated and hence dissolved oxygen in the water runs out. Moving water = adequate gaseous exchange for depleted oxygen to be replenished. Larger, more muscular fishes need more oxygen typically and will be affected most IMO. Amanda; really sad what happened to your fishes. I feel bad enough reading about them, so I can only imagine how you must have felt. But dont dwell on it too much. IMO get one of the larger Vortechs and a batter backup. They run for at least 24hours and double that if you add two batteries.

10/25/2009, 06:06 PM	#19
Live Rocker Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Katy TX Posts: 63	sorry for your loss - that is scary - I have inadvertently left my power heads off for a few hours

10/25/2009, 06:16 PM	#20
Chihuahua6 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Hempstead, NY Posts: 2,124	Bigworm these fish are very active and fairly large. The tank is temporary and too small to house these fish long term. So now you have three very active fish that consume large amounts of oxygen in a tank that can only hold so much oxygen. The pumps were probably off for twelve hours. If the fish were still in my 280 gallon I'm sure they would have been fine because that tank was lightly stocked which is the way I normally run my displays. I didn't want to sell all of my fish when I moved so I set up these two tanks until my house under construction is finished. It really sucks that I won't be able to see them in their new home (and my new home.) __________________ Leah Amanda Current Tank Info: First salt tank 1985, current tank 150 g acrylic

10/25/2009, 06:17 PM	#21
bigworm175 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Denver Posts: 418	Thanks Sahin. I don't run a closed loop so I don't know much about it. Sad you lost your fish Amanda.

10/25/2009, 06:20 PM	#22
Chihuahua6 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: West Hempstead, NY Posts: 2,124	Thanks Sahin. I have had fish for thirty years and I never cried over losing any until today. These guys were my babies, fed them 10 times a day to nurse them back to health. After doing some research I am definitely going to purchase a Vortec and battery backup. I just need to find a way to use it on 1" acrylic. I'm thinking of routing out a circle in the back of the tank to a 3/4" thickness. __________________ Leah Amanda Current Tank Info: First salt tank 1985, current tank 150 g acrylic

10/25/2009, 06:21 PM	#23
BornToReefKeep Moved On Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5	I did this once for my skimmer and did not realize it until I went to clean my skimmer cup again in 4 days.

10/25/2009, 08:12 PM	#25
ser_renely Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,820	Sorry to hear that, it is so easy. __________________ RIP: Osc. Clown - Ammonia, YW GobY - overflow, YW Goby - Pistol shrimp, Firefish - acclimation. 5 Fire fish - pistol shrimp, Mandarin - Pistol shrimp!!!!! Current Tank Info: 60g Cube, 15g sump/fuge,Tunze 9010 skimmer, Reefbreeders Photon 16" - 2 Osc. Clowns,2 Lyretail Anthias, Blue Chromis, mp20, mp10....another DAMN pistol shrimp!