Algae outbreaks associated with dry rock, like Marco?

redfishsc · 10/27/2009, 07:43 PM

I have around 30 pounds of dry Marco in my tank that I added about 3 weeks ago. Let me first say that I think Marco rock is one of the best products in our hobby, and I wholly recommend their product. So this isn't a dig on them.

I am now fighting a pretty stout hair algae infestation (texture is a LOT like the old polyester filter floss, just, green). Some bryopsis as well but that was there before the Marco was added. There is a LOT of hair algae in there.

Anyhow, I remember reading on a thread somewhere that folks were having algae outbreaks after adding dry rock.

Previously the ONLY pest algae I was fighting was bryopsis, and the Tech M has helped to nearly eradicate it, but after adding the Marco rock, it's VERY hard to kill it off, and hair algae is now all over the place.

The whole system is small, a 25g, a 20, 5.5 fuge, and 5g sump w/skimmer. The 25 had established rock in it, and the 20 only had a frag rack until I removed it and added all the Marco.

I skim wet, and generally pull a half gallon a week or more from this system, of tea-colored skimmate.

I dose glucose and vitamin C to reduce phosphates and nitrates, and it appears to be working, but something is feeding the algae. Could it be phosphates bound up in the rock? Right now I am dosing half/half, a total of about 1/2 tsp per day total, of the two.

Is this normal for dry rock that was added to an established system?

phosphates, 0.00 to 0.05 on the Seachem kit (hard to read that low)
nitrates--- 0.0ppm Salifert
alk, 12 dKH
magnesium ~ 2200 (because of the Tech M bryo battle)

jenglish · 10/27/2009, 08:11 PM

IDK where their dry rock comes from but it is possible it already is full of organics.

edsbeaker · 10/27/2009, 08:35 PM

Hi,
I'm on my fourth week after adding Marco Key Largo to a larger tank with my totally cured original rock. I had a similar experience. Only the Marco rock has algae on it. Non of the established rock has it at all. It's been clearing up over the last week. I have no hair algae left at all, just some green algae on some of the rock. As ugly as it was for the first month, the beauty of these rocks is now visible. Worth every moment I had to wait. I love the look of this rock! Hope you have the same experience!

Aristarchus · 10/27/2009, 10:10 PM

I added some marco rock, dry and live rock to seed. I have had a similar outbreak but like edsbeaker said, it is well worth it. This stuff is great and it is now starting to clear up after 2 weeks. Then again, I cycled my tank with it so it's pretty typical. I highly suggest it, and their new live rock is amazing.

Kyle

redsea reefer · 10/28/2009, 10:57 AM

You have to cycle marco rocks or dry rock of any kind because they are still loaded with dead matter and phosphates.

rkaires · 10/28/2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redsea reefer

You have to cycle marco rocks or dry rock of any kind because they are still loaded with dead matter and phosphates.

I agree. Some people soak there macro rocks in a strong vinegar solution to remove bound phosphates for a week or more. This is followed by soaking in rodi for another week changing the water a couple times.

redfishsc · 10/28/2009, 01:30 PM

Interesting.

The Marco rock I have came in looking crystal-clean. There was no evidence whatsoever of any organic compound on it, such as what you often see on dried live rock from a tank. While I certainly agree that it's possible, it seems unlikely to me.

FWIW my tank hasn't shown any trace of phosphates over the 0.0 to 0.05ppm (Seachem kit) that it normally would have shown, and nitrates are always 0.0 to 0.2ppm (Salifert). Then again any phosphate/nitrate from the rock could be easily used up by algal photosynthesis and the carbon dosing I've been doing.

I've never seen in person any dry Fiji or Tonga rock to compare it to, but I can promise that there's no visible sign of organic material in the rock.

Inorganic phosphate, I'll have to take your word on it. Certainly a possibility.

Thanks for the info on this. I'll cycle all my dry rock with vinegar and such before using it next time.

tufacody · 10/28/2009, 02:02 PM

The lack of coralline cover allows for easier nuisance growth. This should take care of itself in a month or so.

albano · 10/28/2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenglish

IDK where their dry rock comes from but it is possible it already is full of organics.

It's not just dry rock, it's VERY dry rock, been out of the ocean for thousands of years, mined in south Florida, same material that the state uses for road construction, I've seen reports that high phosphates (like all of Florida) is a strong possibility... that being said, it is very nice, light weight/porous rock...but CYCLE it!

mark728 · 10/28/2009, 02:13 PM

Hi guys I have Marco rock around 130 +lbs and I never had any algae problems but you do have to clean this rock mine looked so clean when I got it but I wanted to pressure wash and after I did I could not believe what came out ,so I did a vinegar soak for a week and it was insane what came out ,dead corals ,crabs ,so then I did a soak in muriatic acid for 2 days and then I let it soak in r/o the I seeded it with 10lbs of live rock and now in my 120 tech 11 months later it's covered completely with Coraline I could not be happier it took some work but everyone loves my rock .

PICS OF THE DIRTY ROCK

6 MONTHS

9 MONTHS

redfishsc · 10/28/2009, 03:17 PM

That is an INSANE tank, Mark, very nice.

Thanks for sharing about how you cleaned the Marco.

I think this is my problem. Next time I'll cycle it well.

Fortunately my cleanup crew is feasting well on the algae growth, I'm hoping it ends soon.

mark728 · 10/28/2009, 04:05 PM

Thanks ,yea Marco rock is great rock but it does take some time to get it ready .

rbnice1 · 10/28/2009, 04:22 PM

I've never bother cleaning marco dry rocks.

I do however run it with no light for a month or so while its cycling. Ussually I get a bunch of brown and green algae on it but I think thats just from it being white. After a month or 2 the clean up crew gets the algae back in line and it starts getting coraline all over it.

wdt2000 · 10/28/2009, 06:20 PM

I have a good bit of Tampa Bay dry rock and I have not had any problems so far. I think most of this rock is very dense so its not the best for biological filtration which may lead to algae out breaks.

jenglish · 10/28/2009, 06:31 PM

ANy dry rock I get goes through an acid dip anymore. It just takes out so much that I think it is worth the work.

tylorarm · 10/29/2009, 11:43 AM

I used marco rocks, nice rocks but i would never do so again without the muriatic acid soak. Took forever to truely cure and get rid of the algae film. I also think leaches phosphates to the tank, although that's just my speculation.

curthendrix · 10/29/2009, 12:36 PM

How long do you guys leave in the acid and at what strength?

Fishingpcola · 11/26/2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkaires

I agree. Some people soak there macro rocks in a strong vinegar solution to remove bound phosphates for a week or more. This is followed by soaking in rodi for another week changing the water a couple times.

I to soaked my marco rocks in vinegar water for a week and then rodi for another week. Tested 0 phosphates. This was recommended by Kannin to me from his foam rock reef.

Fishingpcola · 11/26/2009, 05:12 PM

I still battle a white web looking stuff on my rocks. I believe it is from lack of adequate flow. I plan on adding a couple of maxijet mods. If anyone knows what this is, please inform me!

arredondojason · 11/26/2009, 05:33 PM

i have about 150 lbs. of marco rock in my tank it has been cycling now for 9 months because I am deployed to afghanistan and I am running GFO do you think I am going to have this problem or not.
It was not acid diped or vinager diped either.
It is in a 240G tank and I will be adding about 150 lbs of established live rock from my old 150G tank when I get home in 3 weeks.

redfishsc · 11/26/2009, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arredondojason

i have about 150 lbs. of marco rock in my tank it has been cycling now for 9 months because I am deployed to afghanistan and I am running GFO do you think I am going to have this problem or not.
It was not acid diped or vinager diped either.
It is in a 240G tank and I will be adding about 150 lbs of established live rock from my old 150G tank when I get home in 3 weeks.

First off, especially because of what today is, THANK YOU for what you are doing in Afghanistan for our nation and our world! We are greatly thankful for all you are doing and the sacrifice that you and your fellow soldiers are making for us.

Now, curing the stuff for 9 months, especially with GFO, I'm pretty sure you'll be alright.

When you go to use it, check the water it is sitting in for phosphates. Use a good kit like the Seachem, Salifert, or Elos (the API is too high range).

If it tests much, you might want to vinegar cook it for a while, although I'm personally not sure the exacts on how that's done.

Personally I think you'll be fine

Have a safe trip home, let us know when you get there (and post lots of pics of that 240!).

redfishsc · 11/26/2009, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishingpcola

I still battle a white web looking stuff on my rocks. I believe it is from lack of adequate flow. I plan on adding a couple of maxijet mods. If anyone knows what this is, please inform me!

Strange that I was thinking of you the other day when I was reading through Sprung's book on algae (highly recommended, and it's cheap).

You may actually have an unusual form of cyanobacteria. He has some pics of things that remotely resemble what you have.

Have you tried the "atom bomb" for cyano (antibiotics)? This is a totally last ditch effort and be prepared in case it crashes your biofilter, but I think erythromycin is known to kill off cyano quite nicely.

I know you are on your last ditch effort with this stuff since you've been fighting it for like 50 years now, lol.

arredondojason · 11/26/2009, 07:09 PM

thanks.I appriciate comments like this it helps alot.

I have some pics in my album from when i went home and built the stand,canopy and set it up.
Dont critisize to hard keep in mind I set all of it up including the build in 4 days as I went to New York city to pickup the tank and made a trip of it with my wife. There is plenty more I still need to do when I get home.
Here is a link to my album.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=515

I forgot to add I run salifert for all my test kits.

stubby 58 · 11/26/2009, 07:58 PM

I have about 75# Marco's dry rock . Did nothing more than rinse it good with a garden hose and a tooth brush . Put it in a 55 cycling now going on 6wks nothing unusual . Also added around 10# of live rock from LFS . Had more trouble with his fine sand than the rock had to add some coarser sand with it . stubby

Fishingpcola · 11/29/2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redfishsc

Strange that I was thinking of you the other day when I was reading through Sprung's book on algae (highly recommended, and it's cheap).

You may actually have an unusual form of cyanobacteria. He has some pics of things that remotely resemble what you have.

Have you tried the "atom bomb" for cyano (antibiotics)? This is a totally last ditch effort and be prepared in case it crashes your biofilter, but I think erythromycin is known to kill off cyano quite nicely.

I know you are on your last ditch effort with this stuff since you've been fighting it for like 50 years now, lol.

Thanks. I do have the book. It is going away as fast as it appeared. As soon as it showed up I started running carbon and a filter sock. Skimming is pulling alot of stuff. I hope this helps gets rid of it.

10/27/2009, 07:43 PM	#1
redfishsc Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Wake Forest, NC Posts: 3,696	Algae outbreaks associated with dry rock, like Marco? I have around 30 pounds of dry Marco in my tank that I added about 3 weeks ago. Let me first say that I think Marco rock is one of the best products in our hobby, and I wholly recommend their product. So this isn't a dig on them. I am now fighting a pretty stout hair algae infestation (texture is a LOT like the old polyester filter floss, just, green). Some bryopsis as well but that was there before the Marco was added. There is a LOT of hair algae in there. Anyhow, I remember reading on a thread somewhere that folks were having algae outbreaks after adding dry rock. Previously the ONLY pest algae I was fighting was bryopsis, and the Tech M has helped to nearly eradicate it, but after adding the Marco rock, it's VERY hard to kill it off, and hair algae is now all over the place. The whole system is small, a 25g, a 20, 5.5 fuge, and 5g sump w/skimmer. The 25 had established rock in it, and the 20 only had a frag rack until I removed it and added all the Marco. I skim wet, and generally pull a half gallon a week or more from this system, of tea-colored skimmate. I dose glucose and vitamin C to reduce phosphates and nitrates, and it appears to be working, but something is feeding the algae. Could it be phosphates bound up in the rock? Right now I am dosing half/half, a total of about 1/2 tsp per day total, of the two. Is this normal for dry rock that was added to an established system? phosphates, 0.00 to 0.05 on the Seachem kit (hard to read that low) nitrates--- 0.0ppm Salifert alk, 12 dKH magnesium ~ 2200 (because of the Tech M bryo battle) __________________ "The measure of a life is not its duration but its donation." Corrie Ten Boom “The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins” -- Søren Kierkegaard Current Tank Info: ghetto grad school reef.....11g rimless tank, 36X9X9, lit by Cree and Rebels scobbled together. Stocked mostly with free stuff I got from panhandling my fellow reefers.

10/27/2009, 08:11 PM	#2
jenglish Marquis de Carabas Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,523	IDK where their dry rock comes from but it is possible it already is full of organics. __________________ Jeremy Brown liquor never hurt anybody “Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse" Pierre-Simon Laplace I should want to cook him a simple meal, but I shouldn't want to cut into him, to tear the flesh, to wear the flesh, to be born unto new worlds where his flesh becomes my key. Current Tank Info: broken and dry

10/27/2009, 08:35 PM	#3
edsbeaker Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bartlett, IL Posts: 857	Hi, I'm on my fourth week after adding Marco Key Largo to a larger tank with my totally cured original rock. I had a similar experience. Only the Marco rock has algae on it. Non of the established rock has it at all. It's been clearing up over the last week. I have no hair algae left at all, just some green algae on some of the rock. As ugly as it was for the first month, the beauty of these rocks is now visible. Worth every moment I had to wait. I love the look of this rock! Hope you have the same experience! __________________ Marilyn RedSea Max-E 260

10/27/2009, 10:10 PM	#4
Aristarchus Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tri-cities, WA Posts: 272	I added some marco rock, dry and live rock to seed. I have had a similar outbreak but like edsbeaker said, it is well worth it. This stuff is great and it is now starting to clear up after 2 weeks. Then again, I cycled my tank with it so it's pretty typical. I highly suggest it, and their new live rock is amazing. Kyle __________________ New tank: CFI Fabrications 120g 48x24x24, 40g sump, Metal Halides 2x250w DE HQI and 2x110w VHO Super Actinics, Closed Loop w/ Oceans Motions 4-way via Dolphin Amp Master 5600/4700, Neptune Apex Lite, TLF-150 Phosban Reactor, AquaC EV-120(skimmer to be replaced soon)

10/28/2009, 10:57 AM	#5
redsea reefer Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: L.A California Posts: 335	You have to cycle marco rocks or dry rock of any kind because they are still loaded with dead matter and phosphates. __________________ -Eddie- 34g RSM 130 - Tunze 9002 skimmer with inTank media rack - Vortech MP10

10/28/2009, 01:30 PM	#7
redfishsc Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Wake Forest, NC Posts: 3,696	Interesting. The Marco rock I have came in looking crystal-clean. There was no evidence whatsoever of any organic compound on it, such as what you often see on dried live rock from a tank. While I certainly agree that it's possible, it seems unlikely to me. FWIW my tank hasn't shown any trace of phosphates over the 0.0 to 0.05ppm (Seachem kit) that it normally would have shown, and nitrates are always 0.0 to 0.2ppm (Salifert). Then again any phosphate/nitrate from the rock could be easily used up by algal photosynthesis and the carbon dosing I've been doing. I've never seen in person any dry Fiji or Tonga rock to compare it to, but I can promise that there's no visible sign of organic material in the rock. Inorganic phosphate, I'll have to take your word on it. Certainly a possibility. Thanks for the info on this. I'll cycle all my dry rock with vinegar and such before using it next time. __________________ "The measure of a life is not its duration but its donation." Corrie Ten Boom “The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins” -- Søren Kierkegaard Current Tank Info: ghetto grad school reef.....11g rimless tank, 36X9X9, lit by Cree and Rebels scobbled together. Stocked mostly with free stuff I got from panhandling my fellow reefers.

10/28/2009, 02:02 PM	#8
tufacody Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,890	The lack of coralline cover allows for easier nuisance growth. This should take care of itself in a month or so.

10/28/2009, 02:13 PM	#10
mark728 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 471	Hi guys I have Marco rock around 130 +lbs and I never had any algae problems but you do have to clean this rock mine looked so clean when I got it but I wanted to pressure wash and after I did I could not believe what came out ,so I did a vinegar soak for a week and it was insane what came out ,dead corals ,crabs ,so then I did a soak in muriatic acid for 2 days and then I let it soak in r/o the I seeded it with 10lbs of live rock and now in my 120 tech 11 months later it's covered completely with Coraline I could not be happier it took some work but everyone loves my rock . PICS OF THE DIRTY ROCK 6 MONTHS 9 MONTHS __________________ 120g tech 2 X 250W Reeflux 10k, Center,400w Reeflux 20k ,GEO618,2 Vortechs/1VHO Actinic,3Ati Blue+ 54w T5,2 Fiji purp 54w T5,Octo Extreme 250 Skimmer w/purp/pinwheels,130+ lbs Marco rock,200 + lbs sand,Mag 18,Sps & Nepthea Current Tank Info: 120g TECH SPS & GREEN LEATHERS,NEPTHEA & SINULARIA

10/28/2009, 03:17 PM	#11
redfishsc Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Wake Forest, NC Posts: 3,696	That is an INSANE tank, Mark, very nice. Thanks for sharing about how you cleaned the Marco. I think this is my problem. Next time I'll cycle it well. Fortunately my cleanup crew is feasting well on the algae growth, I'm hoping it ends soon. __________________ "The measure of a life is not its duration but its donation." Corrie Ten Boom “The tyrant dies and his rule is over, the martyr dies and his rule begins” -- Søren Kierkegaard Current Tank Info: ghetto grad school reef.....11g rimless tank, 36X9X9, lit by Cree and Rebels scobbled together. Stocked mostly with free stuff I got from panhandling my fellow reefers.

10/28/2009, 04:05 PM	#12
mark728 Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NJ Posts: 471	Thanks ,yea Marco rock is great rock but it does take some time to get it ready . __________________ 120g tech 2 X 250W Reeflux 10k, Center,400w Reeflux 20k ,GEO618,2 Vortechs/1VHO Actinic,3Ati Blue+ 54w T5,2 Fiji purp 54w T5,Octo Extreme 250 Skimmer w/purp/pinwheels,130+ lbs Marco rock,200 + lbs sand,Mag 18,Sps & Nepthea Current Tank Info: 120g TECH SPS & GREEN LEATHERS,NEPTHEA & SINULARIA

10/28/2009, 04:22 PM	#13
rbnice1 Moved On Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cedar Hill Posts: 3,905	I've never bother cleaning marco dry rocks. I do however run it with no light for a month or so while its cycling. Ussually I get a bunch of brown and green algae on it but I think thats just from it being white. After a month or 2 the clean up crew gets the algae back in line and it starts getting coraline all over it.

10/28/2009, 06:20 PM	#14
wdt2000 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Mills River NC Posts: 904	I have a good bit of Tampa Bay dry rock and I have not had any problems so far. I think most of this rock is very dense so its not the best for biological filtration which may lead to algae out breaks.

10/28/2009, 06:31 PM	#15
jenglish Marquis de Carabas Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,523	ANy dry rock I get goes through an acid dip anymore. It just takes out so much that I think it is worth the work. __________________ Jeremy Brown liquor never hurt anybody “Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse" Pierre-Simon Laplace I should want to cook him a simple meal, but I shouldn't want to cut into him, to tear the flesh, to wear the flesh, to be born unto new worlds where his flesh becomes my key. Current Tank Info: broken and dry

10/29/2009, 11:43 AM	#16
tylorarm Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 759	I used marco rocks, nice rocks but i would never do so again without the muriatic acid soak. Took forever to truely cure and get rid of the algae film. I also think leaches phosphates to the tank, although that's just my speculation.

10/29/2009, 12:36 PM	#17
curthendrix Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tulsa Posts: 758	How long do you guys leave in the acid and at what strength? __________________ Curt Current Tank Info: 500g inwall

11/26/2009, 05:12 PM	#19
Fishingpcola Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pace Posts: 437	I still battle a white web looking stuff on my rocks. I believe it is from lack of adequate flow. I plan on adding a couple of maxijet mods. If anyone knows what this is, please inform me!

11/26/2009, 05:33 PM	#20
arredondojason Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 988	i have about 150 lbs. of marco rock in my tank it has been cycling now for 9 months because I am deployed to afghanistan and I am running GFO do you think I am going to have this problem or not. It was not acid diped or vinager diped either. It is in a 240G tank and I will be adding about 150 lbs of established live rock from my old 150G tank when I get home in 3 weeks.

11/26/2009, 07:09 PM	#23
arredondojason Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 988	thanks.I appriciate comments like this it helps alot. I have some pics in my album from when i went home and built the stand,canopy and set it up. Dont critisize to hard keep in mind I set all of it up including the build in 4 days as I went to New York city to pickup the tank and made a trip of it with my wife. There is plenty more I still need to do when I get home. Here is a link to my album. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=515 I forgot to add I run salifert for all my test kits. Last edited by arredondojason; 11/26/2009 at 07:21 PM.

11/26/2009, 07:58 PM	#24
stubby 58 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Ama TX Posts: 217	I have about 75# Marco's dry rock . Did nothing more than rinse it good with a garden hose and a tooth brush . Put it in a 55 cycling now going on 6wks nothing unusual . Also added around 10# of live rock from LFS . Had more trouble with his fine sand than the rock had to add some coarser sand with it . stubby