plumbing and electrical

VictorE · 11/30/2009, 10:59 PM

So I'm still working on this massive tank project. Now that it is up on the "stand" with canopy lighting complete, I've been concentrating on the electrical and plumbing.

Having just ordered the reefkeeper system with salinity probe, ORP, tamperature and pH, I've been thinking about the pros and cons to placing these probes on the discharge line side of the pump. It is easier to wire up if I do it this way, but I'm not sure what all the implications might be in terms of the effects on the measurement and the flow/pressure pinpoint and digital aquatics probes can handle. I also have room for an additional temperature and pH probe. If you run two temps and pH's, where would one place the probes?

Victor

MandM · 12/01/2009, 12:55 AM

Ooo, nice closet placement. See my photo gallery and you may take over that space.

As far as probe placement I can't help other than bumping your thread to the top for someone else to see. You may also want to check the lighting/filtration/equipment forum here as well. Looking good so far though.

joet3580 · 12/01/2009, 05:12 AM

I put mine in central chamber of sump same as return although only have ph and temp probes

drewp808 · 12/01/2009, 05:21 AM

nice tank, i put mine in the return as well. when i tested it in my display it was close r than my fuge

VictorE · 12/02/2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MandM

Ooo, nice closet placement. See my photo gallery and you may take over that space.

As far as probe placement I can't help other than bumping your thread to the top for someone else to see. You may also want to check the lighting/filtration/equipment forum here as well. Looking good so far though.

Nice setup. I actually have two remote spaces. one is in the closet next to the tank. That will contain the lighting transformers and the main electrical subpanel (40A service). The ReefKeeper 2 with network access will also be in this location.

The second photo with the chiller is actually a very large walk-in pantry directly behind the tank under the stairs. I'm thinking to do all my sensing (pH, ORP, temp, salinity) and electrical switched items (ozone, chiller, heater, etc) here.

VictorE · 12/02/2009, 10:21 AM

Reading the responses, I think I need to clarify.

I'm considering mounting controller probes like the ones pictured here (http://www.oregonreef.com/images/photos/p_040_l.jpg).

Randy Holmes-Farley · 12/02/2009, 12:08 PM

I've been thinking about the pros and cons to placing these probes on the discharge line side of the pump.

In line in the pipe?

I do not think that it is desirable to have the probes in high flow areas like in line in a pipe, if that is the intent. You will also need to remove them for cleaning and calibrating, so that would require shutting things down if they were in line.

VictorE · 12/02/2009, 12:26 PM

Yup, in-line in the pipe, just like the photo.

As for flow rates and cleaning, I wasn thinking to have a parallel branch with valves that would (1) reduce the flow rate and (2) provide a way to shot down the line so probes can be cleaned and calibrated.

I just have no clue what the optimum flow rates for these types of probes would be.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 12/02/2009, 12:31 PM

Sorry, the photos did not explain anything to me.

I'd definitely recommend against in line. Optimum flow is pretty slow for them.

pH electrodes can be fragile and something hitting it can break it. They also can give somewhat inaccurate readings in high flow settings unless calibrated that way.

Crud (or air bubbles) lodged into a conductivity meter will give false low readings and you won't see it to know.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 12/02/2009, 12:38 PM

Here's a comment on flow and pH, for example:

http://www.reagecon.com/TechPapers/phfaqv4.pdf

Should I stir my sample when taking a pH measurement?
It is not strictly necessary to stir samples for pH measurement. Although stirring the
solution ensures a quicker response, if the buffer solutions are stirred, then the sample
should also be stirred. It is important that the stirring is carried out at the same speed for
both samples and buffers.

and

http://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/5/4/209/pdf

The stirring effect on pH measurement is well known. Chemists are confused by conflicting
recommendations [1-7]. Many studies on the stirring effect have been reported [17,18]. The DL and
TL at the electrode interface affect the electrode potential, and the stirring disturbs both layers [36].
Recommendations are to stir the solution to achieve a uniform solution, then stop stirring and perform
the measurement. The calibration should be carried out with standard buffers under the same
conditions without stirring.

12/01/2009, 12:55 AM	#2
MandM sick yet brilliant Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Sacramento Posts: 1,497	Ooo, nice closet placement. See my photo gallery and you may take over that space. As far as probe placement I can't help other than bumping your thread to the top for someone else to see. You may also want to check the lighting/filtration/equipment forum here as well. Looking good so far though. __________________ Sheila I was emo when emo wasn't cool If your not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate. Current Tank Info: 120g, 8g

12/02/2009, 12:08 PM	#7
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	I've been thinking about the pros and cons to placing these probes on the discharge line side of the pump. In line in the pipe? I do not think that it is desirable to have the probes in high flow areas like in line in a pipe, if that is the intent. You will also need to remove them for cleaning and calibrating, so that would require shutting things down if they were in line. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

12/02/2009, 12:31 PM	#9
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Sorry, the photos did not explain anything to me. I'd definitely recommend against in line. Optimum flow is pretty slow for them. pH electrodes can be fragile and something hitting it can break it. They also can give somewhat inaccurate readings in high flow settings unless calibrated that way. Crud (or air bubbles) lodged into a conductivity meter will give false low readings and you won't see it to know. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

12/02/2009, 12:38 PM	#10
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Here's a comment on flow and pH, for example: http://www.reagecon.com/TechPapers/phfaqv4.pdf Should I stir my sample when taking a pH measurement? It is not strictly necessary to stir samples for pH measurement. Although stirring the solution ensures a quicker response, if the buffer solutions are stirred, then the sample should also be stirred. It is important that the stirring is carried out at the same speed for both samples and buffers. and http://www.mdpi.com/1424-8220/5/4/209/pdf The stirring effect on pH measurement is well known. Chemists are confused by conflicting recommendations [1-7]. Many studies on the stirring effect have been reported [17,18]. The DL and TL at the electrode interface affect the electrode potential, and the stirring disturbs both layers [36]. Recommendations are to stir the solution to achieve a uniform solution, then stop stirring and perform the measurement. The calibration should be carried out with standard buffers under the same conditions without stirring. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

12/01/2009, 05:12 AM	#3
joet3580 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 53	I put mine in central chamber of sump same as return although only have ph and temp probes

12/01/2009, 05:21 AM	#4
drewp808 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: HONOLULU Posts: 143	nice tank, i put mine in the return as well. when i tested it in my display it was close r than my fuge

12/02/2009, 10:21 AM	#6
VictorE Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 284	Reading the responses, I think I need to clarify. I'm considering mounting controller probes like the ones pictured here (http://www.oregonreef.com/images/photos/p_040_l.jpg).

12/02/2009, 12:26 PM	#8
VictorE Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 284	Yup, in-line in the pipe, just like the photo. As for flow rates and cleaning, I wasn thinking to have a parallel branch with valves that would (1) reduce the flow rate and (2) provide a way to shot down the line so probes can be cleaned and calibrated. I just have no clue what the optimum flow rates for these types of probes would be.