RO placement

pskorf · 12/01/2009, 04:41 PM

going to install my RO filter and wondering if i should place it before or after my water softner.
the water softner i could place it after is the one for my koi pond so the salt i use is good for them and does not include rust remover or anything bad for the fish.

Jaycen B. · 12/01/2009, 05:13 PM

After the water softner.

pskorf · 12/01/2009, 05:19 PM

would also like to hear the benefits and why of either way?

Jaycen B. · 12/01/2009, 05:29 PM

I am not familiar with water softeners, I do not have one but if you have hard water it will make your RO membrane last alot longer.

birddog486 · 12/01/2009, 05:31 PM

after the softner. The softner is removing the calcium and magnesium so the RO membrane has less to remove, therefore the membrane lasts longer.

cdbias2 · 12/01/2009, 05:41 PM

Some water softeners add salt.

joel g · 12/01/2009, 06:12 PM

SpectraPure® recommends the use of a Water Softener ahead of the Reverse Osmosis System for efficient water purification production and operation, water saving and longer life of the membrane. The Water Softener will replace the hardness (mineral, calcium and magnesium) in the water with sodium. This prevents mineral-scale buildup on the RO membrane.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 12/01/2009, 06:43 PM

Well, to be fair, adding a softener before the RO membrane will likely raise the TDS out of the RO because calcium and magnesium are actually easier for the RO to remove than is sodium. So that isn’t the reason to put the softener first.

As Joel indicates, the reason many suggest having it before the RO is that it reduces the calcium and magnesium carbonate precipitation onto the RO membrane (often called fouling or scale formation) and so the water softener can extend the lifetime of the RO membrane before it is too clogged to be useful.

pskorf · 12/01/2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Well, to be fair, adding a softener before the RO membrane will likely raise the TDS out of the RO because calcium and magnesium are actually easier for the RO to remove than is sodium. So that isn’t the reason to put the softener first.

As Joel indicates, the reason many suggest having it before the RO is that it reduces the calcium and magnesium carbonate precipitation onto the RO membrane (often called fouling or scale formation) and so the water softener can extend the lifetime of the RO membrane before it is too clogged to be useful.

okay so does this mean you want it in front or behind.
i have well water ,it goes through an iron filter and then through a carbon filter then i can either put ro on here or after softner(i have 1 softner for house and 1 for pond so much for free water with all that equipment)

Randy Holmes-Farley · 12/02/2009, 05:45 AM

If I used one, I'd put the softener in front of the RO.

nimrod · 12/02/2009, 05:51 AM

i second that...before the ro. get with a sponsor that deals with nothing but ro/di units. there god about getting back to you.

Chris27 · 12/02/2009, 10:55 AM

Also, think about adding a DI unit on the end of the RO, it will ensure that you have nothing but pure H2O available for your tank.

pskorf · 12/02/2009, 01:02 PM

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...rd-system.html
this one is showing up in a day or 2 so hopefully i got the right one

thegrun · 12/02/2009, 03:19 PM

Unless your tap water is very clean (which would beg the point why would you need a water softener?), install it after the softener.

Jaycen B. · 12/02/2009, 07:16 PM

pskorf that unit will do you well.

pskorf · 12/02/2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrun

Unless your tap water is very clean (which would beg the point why would you need a water softener?), install it after the softener.

the water softner for the pond is to help lower the gh which in turn will hopefully help the red color and stop them from shimi on my koi but that is for another hobby forum

but if you really want TMI the outside pond does not get the softner so it will help the black color on the koi.

Driz · 12/02/2009, 09:05 PM

I have about 1300 TDS straight from my well... (Ewww)

After my softner (trying to remember to be accurate) it's somewhere in the 250-500TDS range (Can't remember off hand)

So, ya, in many cases AFTER softner would be much easier.

Randy Holmes-Farley · 12/03/2009, 05:58 AM

You must be doing something to that water aside from softening it to reduce the TDS like that. The swapping of sodium for calcium and magnesium does not reduce the TDS that much. Only a little as the sodium ions released are just a tiny bit less conductive than the proportional amount of calcium and magnesium. There is no removal of total ions by a softener.

Maybe it is just a mismeasurement?

Buckeye Hydro · 12/04/2009, 05:29 AM

Yes - after the softener.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/04/2009, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdbias2

Some water softeners add salt.

correction, water softeners don't add salt to the product water it uses salt to regenerate the filter canister.

12/01/2009, 04:41 PM	#1
pskorf Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Forreston,IL. Posts: 141	RO placement going to install my RO filter and wondering if i should place it before or after my water softner. the water softner i could place it after is the one for my koi pond so the salt i use is good for them and does not include rust remover or anything bad for the fish.

12/01/2009, 06:43 PM	#8
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	Well, to be fair, adding a softener before the RO membrane will likely raise the TDS out of the RO because calcium and magnesium are actually easier for the RO to remove than is sodium. So that isn’t the reason to put the softener first. As Joel indicates, the reason many suggest having it before the RO is that it reduces the calcium and magnesium carbonate precipitation onto the RO membrane (often called fouling or scale formation) and so the water softener can extend the lifetime of the RO membrane before it is too clogged to be useful. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

12/02/2009, 05:45 AM	#10
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	If I used one, I'd put the softener in front of the RO. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

12/03/2009, 05:58 AM	#18
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	You must be doing something to that water aside from softening it to reduce the TDS like that. The swapping of sodium for calcium and magnesium does not reduce the TDS that much. Only a little as the sodium ions released are just a tiny bit less conductive than the proportional amount of calcium and magnesium. There is no removal of total ions by a softener. Maybe it is just a mismeasurement? __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef Last edited by Randy Holmes-Farley; 12/03/2009 at 06:12 AM.

12/01/2009, 05:13 PM	#2
Jaycen B. Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: GA Posts: 265	After the water softner.

12/01/2009, 05:19 PM	#3
pskorf Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Forreston,IL. Posts: 141	would also like to hear the benefits and why of either way?

12/01/2009, 05:29 PM	#4
Jaycen B. Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: GA Posts: 265	I am not familiar with water softeners, I do not have one but if you have hard water it will make your RO membrane last alot longer.

12/01/2009, 05:31 PM	#5
birddog486 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Wi Posts: 193	after the softner. The softner is removing the calcium and magnesium so the RO membrane has less to remove, therefore the membrane lasts longer.

12/01/2009, 05:41 PM	#6
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	Some water softeners add salt.

12/01/2009, 06:12 PM	#7
joel g Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: southern ma Posts: 68	SpectraPure® recommends the use of a Water Softener ahead of the Reverse Osmosis System for efficient water purification production and operation, water saving and longer life of the membrane. The Water Softener will replace the hardness (mineral, calcium and magnesium) in the water with sodium. This prevents mineral-scale buildup on the RO membrane.

12/02/2009, 05:51 AM	#11
nimrod Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: olathe Posts: 25	i second that...before the ro. get with a sponsor that deals with nothing but ro/di units. there god about getting back to you.

12/02/2009, 10:55 AM	#12
Chris27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 4,452	Also, think about adding a DI unit on the end of the RO, it will ensure that you have nothing but pure H2O available for your tank.

12/02/2009, 01:02 PM	#13
pskorf Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Forreston,IL. Posts: 141	http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store/...rd-system.html this one is showing up in a day or 2 so hopefully i got the right one

12/02/2009, 03:19 PM	#14
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	Unless your tap water is very clean (which would beg the point why would you need a water softener?), install it after the softener.

12/02/2009, 07:16 PM	#15
Jaycen B. Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: GA Posts: 265	pskorf that unit will do you well.

12/02/2009, 09:05 PM	#17
Driz Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 17	I have about 1300 TDS straight from my well... (Ewww) After my softner (trying to remember to be accurate) it's somewhere in the 250-500TDS range (Can't remember off hand) So, ya, in many cases AFTER softner would be much easier.

12/04/2009, 05:29 AM	#19
Buckeye Hydro .Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,857	Yes - after the softener.