Guaranteed Reef in 24 hours

blackf00t · 12/02/2009, 06:48 AM

I started a FOWLR set up about two weeks ago, but before I did that I went to this aquatics store near my house, and I went there before a couple of times to get an idea on what I needed for a tank set up. The guy who owned this store was very mean. Every time I asked a question he tried to make you feel like you were a idiot, he would always say "stop asking stupid questions." The real problem I'm having is he's the only aquatic store around my house. His sales pitch is that he's the only store around town that has the best saltwater because he makes it him self using reverse osmosis and its pure. He always tells the customers his sand is the best because its in a tank and its cured and oxygen is always being supplied to it. He also claims that his rock is the best and its always cured before he sells it, and it too is also in a tank with oxygen running into it. He claims if you buy his rock his tank his sand and his water, that you can put fish in the tank after 24 hours. I don't believe him, and I think thats just all there is too that matter. I found a place in Inglewood, CA that sells real sea water (Catalina), I bought my Fiji rock and also sand from this aquatic store only because it was cheaper and there well known, I also kept it mind that maybe this guy wasn't lying to me and that live rock and live sand should be cured before purchasing. Lucky me it was and it was in a tank being filtered for two months before purchase (so they say). Long story short, I set up my tank, after two days I bought two Damsels, Yellow tail, Black stripe. Since then the tank has been cycling. Its been about two weeks or more. I needed to add more water too my tank because it was evaporating, So I went down to this local aquatics store and bought some water from this guy. Went home and I have been using his water mixed with my real sea water. Since then I started getting this brown algae all over the rock and now its all over the sand, it gets darker and darker every day, it literally looks like the sand and rock are burning. I read a lot of things on the net and some people have said this is normal and it also can be a cause from using synthetic salt, which this guy makes him self. So I went to him and told him what has happened and I told him I mixed his water with real sea water and he told me there was no such thing, and that real sea water is to expensive for any aquatic store to buy and sell. He said it was just regular synthetic water. I told him at that point I spent way to much money and I was not going to argue about water, I just wanted to know how could I treat the brown algae and he told me I ruined my tank because I didn't use his water, rock, and sand. He says that it could also be from the rock, he said that they probably gave me cheap grade rock which is causing this, and if I bought his none of this would have happen. Its like I don't know if Inverts will fix this or if it will go away or if I need to add some additives, or what. To top it all off he wont sell anyone fish if they don't buy his water and if he doesn't test your water before he sells them to you. ( I under stand him testing water, but why do I need to buy his water?)

Juruense · 12/02/2009, 06:56 AM

Well there are two sides to every story but from what you have said this guy sounds like a doofus. There is a LFS here with arrogant and rude owners I stopped going there a long time ago and I would suggest you do the same.

Tanks go through phases when they are new the brown algae which is actually diatoms is normal. Just keep working at it and the tank will eventually stabilize.

kyrin01 · 12/02/2009, 07:01 AM

That guy is a tool. The brown algae u r seeing is diatoms. It is perfectly normal in EVERY new tank. If I was u I would completely boycott his store. U CAN mix salts and seawater, lots of ppl do that to get the right mix of minerals and stuff they want. Obviously the store owner doesn't care about u or the animals he is selling, but only the bottom dollar. Like I said I would not go in his store.

username in use · 12/02/2009, 07:04 AM

Agreed, stop going there, and just keep up the maintanence. If you can, collect your own sea water, thats what I do and my tank looks awesome and crystal clear. If you cant, invest in your own ro unit and make up your own water. Its cheaper than buying it from anywhere. And lastly, if thats not an option, you can always buy distilled water from the grocery strore by the gallon and buy a bucket of salt from someplace online like drsfostersmith and make your own that way. Good luck and keep asking questions. Oh yeah,

To Reef Central

SkarfPa · 12/02/2009, 08:01 AM

I have seen the same problems with an lfs in my area always sending me in the wrong direction and selling me things I dont need there are no 24 hr tricks your tank is cycling take it slow and work through the algee blooms before you add any more fish. sometimes we have no choice but to buy from a place like this. but as problems come up or major purchases post it here first everyone will help send you in the right direction good luck with your new setup

bs21 · 12/02/2009, 08:04 AM

just a thought here..... maybe i misunderstood your original post.

First sounds like diatoms and is just part of tank cycling. mine was really bad. Also when water evaporates you dont want to add more saltwater to refill it ( It think thats what you were saying above) because it will raise the salinity. Instead use fresh water for top offs and salt water for water changes.

Do you have any test kits or a hydrometer etc... to test your water?

cdbias2 · 12/02/2009, 08:05 AM

Are you topping up with his salt water?

kimowen04 · 12/02/2009, 08:13 AM

wow!! never herd of such rude n nasty people! yes im currently twords the end of my cycle as well!! and i would be glad to keep in touch w u and share our cycle process! i have a thread up about my cycle right now. its right here in the new hobby. the brown is diatoms and even with freashwater tanks u will get the diatoms! after the water is more stable u can add inverts to help. todays a testing day for my tank i test every other day! so well see i think if its what im going for ill do a water change today and maybe?, even break down my established nano and put w it! def stay away from the stupid fish store lol hope ur setup goes well and u enjoy saltwater! i love it!

SkarfPa · 12/02/2009, 08:35 AM

When I first got into this hobby a few years ago my local lfs told me I did not need an ro unit because are tap water here in rural Pa was good unlike some places like say nyc so he sold me a bunch of chemicals to treat my tap water my average fish life was about 6 months. now I use a ro/di My tds meter after a whole house filter is 152 ppm 0after the ro/di my son lives in manhattan his tds right out of the pipe is around 62 ppm I have not had a loss in 2 years Water is important you will need to figure out where yours will be coming from. you did not say how big your tank is depending on the volume how much top off water and water changes buying water could be an issue

Frick-n-Frags · 12/02/2009, 08:49 AM

"nothing good happens fast in a reef"

Sugar Magnolia · 12/02/2009, 08:52 AM

Hey F&F! Long time no see!

blackf00t, read through this link - it'll answer the majority of your questions - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1031074

To Reef Central

Chris27 · 12/02/2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkarfPa

When I first got into this hobby a few years ago my local lfs told me I did not need an ro unit because are tap water here in rural Pa was good unlike some places like say nyc so he sold me a bunch of chemicals to treat my tap water my average fish life was about 6 months. now I use a ro/di My tds meter after a whole house filter is 152 ppm 0after the ro/di my son lives in manhattan his tds right out of the pipe is around 62 ppm I have not had a loss in 2 years Water is important you will need to figure out where yours will be coming from. you did not say how big your tank is depending on the volume how much top off water and water changes buying water could be an issue

McAdoo - that's a place I haven't heard of in a long while! I used to date a gal from Beaver Meadows....

lordofthereef · 12/02/2009, 11:54 AM

If all the media is cycled (as this man claims) then he is correct. The only reason we cycle tanks is to establish the bacteria. If he has established and stabilized it for you (which I am sure this guy is charging an arm and a leg for) you truly are good to go. Same thing with buying live rock out of a fellow reefer's tank. It is ready to go, so long as it was properly "taken care of"

lordofthereef · 12/02/2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frick-n-Frags

"nothing good happens fast in a reef"

+1
Thing is it didn't happen fast... you would be paying for that extra time in a premium to the LFS that cycles everything.

Pimps · 12/02/2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyrin01

That guy is a tool. The brown algae u r seeing is diatoms. It is perfectly normal in EVERY new tank. If I was u I would completely boycott his store. U CAN mix salts and seawater, lots of ppl do that to get the right mix of minerals and stuff they want. Obviously the store owner doesn't care about u or the animals he is selling, but only the bottom dollar. Like I said I would not go in his store.

Totally agree, there is zero chance I'd ever buy anything from pompous clown like that.

gmr7494 · 12/02/2009, 12:53 PM

I live in L.A. What's this place called so I can avoid it?

alpine75 · 12/02/2009, 12:57 PM

You are in LA? What area? What LFS is this? There are many good LFS in SOCAL.

wazzo · 12/02/2009, 01:02 PM

one thing ive learned is do your own reading before you go. ive had way too many lfs's steer me in the wrong direction. they will sure sound confident in their words, but in the end it always cost me more money.. i dont ever go with questions anymore, i hit the books or the net first & know what i want when i go. this site is GREAT! all the info you want + more!

fishaholic911 · 12/02/2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordofthereef

if all the media is cycled (as this man claims) then he is correct. The only reason we cycle tanks is to establish the bacteria. If he has established and stabilized it for you (which i am sure this guy is charging an arm and a leg for) you truly are good to go. Same thing with buying live rock out of a fellow reefer's tank. It is ready to go, so long as it was properly "taken care of"

^ + 1

cdbias2 · 12/02/2009, 06:41 PM

You should be able to put together a quarantine tank within a couple of hours.
But that's no reef tank.

slick6669 · 12/02/2009, 06:56 PM

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50

check out the socal forum took me a few days to find it when i first got on here everyones extremely helpful and what lfs was this i live in los angeles also never heard of anyone acting like that would be a good laugh tho

blackf00t · 12/02/2009, 08:17 PM

I have a nano FOWLR is just 16g. I didn't know you were supposed to top of with freshwater. It just made sense to me that you would top of with saltwater. I just have 5 in 1 strips. I'm going to be buying a testing kit, but I have been looking for like the best one to buy, and for the price and what you get API is what I'll buy. I want to keep a couple of corals in my tank, so Ill by the Saltwater master kit and the Reef Master kit, all for under 40 bucks from Linens N' things. I live in West Covina, CA. This LFS is in Glendora, CA, Its called "Goldfish Plus" 626-966-2308, Its rite off of Grand Ave. The owner is Asian, hes really rude, and two faced. I think he just doesn't like me because when I go in with other people he always answers questions with out the sarcasm, but if your by your self, then hes starts acting like a jerk off. Yesterday my yellow tail Damsel died, I think it died because of the rapid changing of the tank and its cycling. Rite now I just have one fish, Black stripe Damsel. So I guess I'm just supposed to wait and keep testing the water until the levels are stable, and then I can put some live stock in or maybe some inverts? BTW thanks for all your help. I don't know too much about Fish, but I do know a lot about Computers so if you ever have COMP problem PM me.

kluivertfan2 · 12/02/2009, 08:54 PM

With a damselfish in there you may be limited in which livestock you can add. Damsels can get very aggressive, especially in a small tank.

Hockey0000325 · 12/02/2009, 09:01 PM

Patience is key in this hobby! Def only top off with fresh water and make sure you get yourself a refractometer. Check your salinity if you have been toping off with saltwater. you want it around or at 1.026 also make sure you are checking your ammonia and nitrites and nitrates these are all very important in your cycle! Keep asking questions, there is no such thing as a stupid question as the old saying goes!

ChadTheSpike · 12/02/2009, 09:02 PM

When water evaporates, the solids (like salt) remain behind. By topping off with saltwater, this slowly concentrates the salts and raises salinity. Do you have a hygrometer? If not, you need to get one (or better yet a refractometer) very soon. The salinity of your water should be 1.026, if it is not there now, adjust it to that level over several days only changing a little 0.001 at a time by doing small water changes with fresh water. In your system about a 0.001 change can be accomplished by draining about 1/2 gallon out and replacing it with fresh water.
Hopefully the live rock and sand was as advertised and you will have a quick cycle, although from what you have said I am skeptical. How much LR and LS did you add?
Welcome to the hobby, it sounds like you already have a story to tell about your lfs, its something that I think we all learn the hard way

Dont worry, you are doing the right thing by doing research.

12/02/2009, 06:48 AM	#1
blackf00t Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Los Angles, California Posts: 4	Guaranteed Reef in 24 hours I started a FOWLR set up about two weeks ago, but before I did that I went to this aquatics store near my house, and I went there before a couple of times to get an idea on what I needed for a tank set up. The guy who owned this store was very mean. Every time I asked a question he tried to make you feel like you were a idiot, he would always say "stop asking stupid questions." The real problem I'm having is he's the only aquatic store around my house. His sales pitch is that he's the only store around town that has the best saltwater because he makes it him self using reverse osmosis and its pure. He always tells the customers his sand is the best because its in a tank and its cured and oxygen is always being supplied to it. He also claims that his rock is the best and its always cured before he sells it, and it too is also in a tank with oxygen running into it. He claims if you buy his rock his tank his sand and his water, that you can put fish in the tank after 24 hours. I don't believe him, and I think thats just all there is too that matter. I found a place in Inglewood, CA that sells real sea water (Catalina), I bought my Fiji rock and also sand from this aquatic store only because it was cheaper and there well known, I also kept it mind that maybe this guy wasn't lying to me and that live rock and live sand should be cured before purchasing. Lucky me it was and it was in a tank being filtered for two months before purchase (so they say). Long story short, I set up my tank, after two days I bought two Damsels, Yellow tail, Black stripe. Since then the tank has been cycling. Its been about two weeks or more. I needed to add more water too my tank because it was evaporating, So I went down to this local aquatics store and bought some water from this guy. Went home and I have been using his water mixed with my real sea water. Since then I started getting this brown algae all over the rock and now its all over the sand, it gets darker and darker every day, it literally looks like the sand and rock are burning. I read a lot of things on the net and some people have said this is normal and it also can be a cause from using synthetic salt, which this guy makes him self. So I went to him and told him what has happened and I told him I mixed his water with real sea water and he told me there was no such thing, and that real sea water is to expensive for any aquatic store to buy and sell. He said it was just regular synthetic water. I told him at that point I spent way to much money and I was not going to argue about water, I just wanted to know how could I treat the brown algae and he told me I ruined my tank because I didn't use his water, rock, and sand. He says that it could also be from the rock, he said that they probably gave me cheap grade rock which is causing this, and if I bought his none of this would have happen. Its like I don't know if Inverts will fix this or if it will go away or if I need to add some additives, or what. To top it all off he wont sell anyone fish if they don't buy his water and if he doesn't test your water before he sells them to you. ( I under stand him testing water, but why do I need to buy his water?)

12/02/2009, 07:04 AM	#4
username in use Sciencing Daily Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,560	Agreed, stop going there, and just keep up the maintanence. If you can, collect your own sea water, thats what I do and my tank looks awesome and crystal clear. If you cant, invest in your own ro unit and make up your own water. Its cheaper than buying it from anywhere. And lastly, if thats not an option, you can always buy distilled water from the grocery strore by the gallon and buy a bucket of salt from someplace online like drsfostersmith and make your own that way. Good luck and keep asking questions. Oh yeah, *To Reef Central* __________________ Joshua "With fronds like these, who needs anemones?" - Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: multiple nano's sprinkled around the house

12/02/2009, 08:49 AM	#10
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	"nothing good happens fast in a reef" __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

12/02/2009, 08:52 AM	#11
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	Hey F&F! Long time no see! blackf00t, read through this link - it'll answer the majority of your questions - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1031074 *To Reef Central* __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.

12/02/2009, 11:54 AM	#13
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	If all the media is cycled (as this man claims) then he is correct. The only reason we cycle tanks is to establish the bacteria. If he has established and stabilized it for you (which I am sure this guy is charging an arm and a leg for) you truly are good to go. Same thing with buying live rock out of a fellow reefer's tank. It is ready to go, so long as it was properly "taken care of" __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

12/02/2009, 06:56 AM	#2
Juruense Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 1,138	Well there are two sides to every story but from what you have said this guy sounds like a doofus. There is a LFS here with arrogant and rude owners I stopped going there a long time ago and I would suggest you do the same. Tanks go through phases when they are new the brown algae which is actually diatoms is normal. Just keep working at it and the tank will eventually stabilize.

12/02/2009, 07:01 AM	#3
kyrin01 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 301	That guy is a tool. The brown algae u r seeing is diatoms. It is perfectly normal in EVERY new tank. If I was u I would completely boycott his store. U CAN mix salts and seawater, lots of ppl do that to get the right mix of minerals and stuff they want. Obviously the store owner doesn't care about u or the animals he is selling, but only the bottom dollar. Like I said I would not go in his store.

12/02/2009, 08:01 AM	#5
SkarfPa Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: McAdoo,Pa Posts: 62	I have seen the same problems with an lfs in my area always sending me in the wrong direction and selling me things I dont need there are no 24 hr tricks your tank is cycling take it slow and work through the algee blooms before you add any more fish. sometimes we have no choice but to buy from a place like this. but as problems come up or major purchases post it here first everyone will help send you in the right direction good luck with your new setup

12/02/2009, 08:04 AM	#6
bs21 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 133	just a thought here..... maybe i misunderstood your original post. First sounds like diatoms and is just part of tank cycling. mine was really bad. Also when water evaporates you dont want to add more saltwater to refill it ( It think thats what you were saying above) because it will raise the salinity. Instead use fresh water for top offs and salt water for water changes. Do you have any test kits or a hydrometer etc... to test your water?

12/02/2009, 08:05 AM	#7
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	Are you topping up with his salt water?

12/02/2009, 08:13 AM	#8
kimowen04 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: central indiana Posts: 134	wow!! never herd of such rude n nasty people! yes im currently twords the end of my cycle as well!! and i would be glad to keep in touch w u and share our cycle process! i have a thread up about my cycle right now. its right here in the new hobby. the brown is diatoms and even with freashwater tanks u will get the diatoms! after the water is more stable u can add inverts to help. todays a testing day for my tank i test every other day! so well see i think if its what im going for ill do a water change today and maybe?, even break down my established nano and put w it! def stay away from the stupid fish store lol hope ur setup goes well and u enjoy saltwater! i love it!

12/02/2009, 08:35 AM	#9
SkarfPa Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: McAdoo,Pa Posts: 62	When I first got into this hobby a few years ago my local lfs told me I did not need an ro unit because are tap water here in rural Pa was good unlike some places like say nyc so he sold me a bunch of chemicals to treat my tap water my average fish life was about 6 months. now I use a ro/di My tds meter after a whole house filter is 152 ppm 0after the ro/di my son lives in manhattan his tds right out of the pipe is around 62 ppm I have not had a loss in 2 years Water is important you will need to figure out where yours will be coming from. you did not say how big your tank is depending on the volume how much top off water and water changes buying water could be an issue

12/02/2009, 12:53 PM	#16
gmr7494 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Pasadena, CA Posts: 394	I live in L.A. What's this place called so I can avoid it?

12/02/2009, 12:57 PM	#17
alpine75 Registered Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 25	You are in LA? What area? What LFS is this? There are many good LFS in SOCAL.

12/02/2009, 01:02 PM	#18
wazzo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NOR CAL Posts: 51	one thing ive learned is do your own reading before you go. ive had way too many lfs's steer me in the wrong direction. they will sure sound confident in their words, but in the end it always cost me more money.. i dont ever go with questions anymore, i hit the books or the net first & know what i want when i go. this site is GREAT! all the info you want + more!

12/02/2009, 06:41 PM	#20
cdbias2 Appalachian Reef Society Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Alum Creek, WV (No more) Posts: 1,433	You should be able to put together a quarantine tank within a couple of hours. But that's no reef tank.

12/02/2009, 06:56 PM	#21
slick6669 Science and Honor! Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal, paramount Posts: 1,791	http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=50 check out the socal forum took me a few days to find it when i first got on here everyones extremely helpful and what lfs was this i live in los angeles also never heard of anyone acting like that would be a good laugh tho

12/02/2009, 08:17 PM	#22
blackf00t Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Los Angles, California Posts: 4	I have a nano FOWLR is just 16g. I didn't know you were supposed to top of with freshwater. It just made sense to me that you would top of with saltwater. I just have 5 in 1 strips. I'm going to be buying a testing kit, but I have been looking for like the best one to buy, and for the price and what you get API is what I'll buy. I want to keep a couple of corals in my tank, so Ill by the Saltwater master kit and the Reef Master kit, all for under 40 bucks from Linens N' things. I live in West Covina, CA. This LFS is in Glendora, CA, Its called "Goldfish Plus" 626-966-2308, Its rite off of Grand Ave. The owner is Asian, hes really rude, and two faced. I think he just doesn't like me because when I go in with other people he always answers questions with out the sarcasm, but if your by your self, then hes starts acting like a jerk off. Yesterday my yellow tail Damsel died, I think it died because of the rapid changing of the tank and its cycling. Rite now I just have one fish, Black stripe Damsel. So I guess I'm just supposed to wait and keep testing the water until the levels are stable, and then I can put some live stock in or maybe some inverts? BTW thanks for all your help. I don't know too much about Fish, but I do know a lot about Computers so if you ever have COMP problem PM me.

12/02/2009, 08:54 PM	#23
kluivertfan2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: K-zoo Michigan Posts: 77	With a damselfish in there you may be limited in which livestock you can add. Damsels can get very aggressive, especially in a small tank.

12/02/2009, 09:01 PM	#24
Hockey0000325 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Rochester Posts: 268	Patience is key in this hobby! Def only top off with fresh water and make sure you get yourself a refractometer. Check your salinity if you have been toping off with saltwater. you want it around or at 1.026 also make sure you are checking your ammonia and nitrites and nitrates these are all very important in your cycle! Keep asking questions, there is no such thing as a stupid question as the old saying goes!

12/02/2009, 09:02 PM	#25
ChadTheSpike Reef Engineer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Washington DC Posts: 1,526 Blog Entries: 1	When water evaporates, the solids (like salt) remain behind. By topping off with saltwater, this slowly concentrates the salts and raises salinity. Do you have a hygrometer? If not, you need to get one (or better yet a refractometer) very soon. The salinity of your water should be 1.026, if it is not there now, adjust it to that level over several days only changing a little 0.001 at a time by doing small water changes with fresh water. In your system about a 0.001 change can be accomplished by draining about 1/2 gallon out and replacing it with fresh water. Hopefully the live rock and sand was as advertised and you will have a quick cycle, although from what you have said I am skeptical. How much LR and LS did you add? Welcome to the hobby, it sounds like you already have a story to tell about your lfs, its something that I think we all learn the hard way Dont worry, you are doing the right thing by doing research. __________________ ~Chad "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies." Current Tank Info: 195 gallons of fun