Live Sand a scam

Saltwat3rAddict · 12/10/2009, 11:07 AM

Ive been looking and doing much research and find that live sand is a scam. Water in a bag of sand in my opinion is a scam. Does anyone else agree? I used 25# of lr and my cycle got through in 2 weeks, and i did this without this live sand stuff.

Rhyno_NC · 12/10/2009, 11:10 AM

You used LR which has live nitrifying bacteria in and on it. Same with the sand, it has water in it to keep the bacteria in it alive.

i would like to know what kind of research you did to "prove" this.

boehm742 · 12/10/2009, 11:12 AM

Yes, i as well am interested in what tests/studies you have done on it to come to your conclusion.

Blownsvt · 12/10/2009, 11:13 AM

I don't know that it is a scam persay. Is it needed? no it's not but you can also start a tank with dry rock if you want vs. live rock. I went the live sand route mostly because it was not all that much more expensive and it does not require all the washing process you go through with other stuff.

Saltwat3rAddict · 12/10/2009, 11:13 AM

nice araganite is the way to go =)

der_wille_zur_macht · 12/10/2009, 11:14 AM

While I don't know if I'd call it a scam, the prepackaged on-the-shelf bags of "live sand" are certainly not required to set up a healthy system. In addition, the product you're getting (sand with some bacteria on it) is vastly different than the "live sand" you'd get from an established tank, fresh from the ocean, or aquacultured and sold fresh.

mdntrdr · 12/10/2009, 11:16 AM

Really, how much life can be in that bag after shipping and lying on the shelf ?

I've always used dry sand seeded with a cup of established sand (much cheaper!)

Great results.

Saltwat3rAddict · 12/10/2009, 11:17 AM

ok, im talking prepackaged stuff. im not going to go on with this argument and there is no need to. Its an own opinion thing. Its not worth fighting over....

Blownsvt · 12/10/2009, 11:22 AM

how much do you guys pay for Nice ocen dry sand? i know you can get sandbox type sand really cheap but i would never use anything like that in a tank. I thought i did alright getting 120 lbs of live sand for somethig like $110.

Sugar Magnolia · 12/10/2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saltwat3rAddict

ok, im talking prepackaged stuff. im not going to go on with this argument and there is no need to. Its an own opinion thing. Its not worth fighting over....

Then why start a thread stating that bagged live sand is a "scam" You know when you post a thread, you are going to get all kinds of feedback. No one here is picking a fight, just curious as to how you came to the conclusion. If you can provide some links to the research you've done perhaps we can see how you came to that conclusion.

I've used dry aragonite and bagged live sand myself, as well as adding a pound or so of sand collected and sold by a lfs. While the bagged sand has beneficial bacteria in it, you don't get all the other goodies like worms, pods etc.

SpaceMonkey · 12/10/2009, 11:24 AM

I've used sandbox sand before with no major problems. I remember there was one particular brand that people used to try and find because it worked so well. The only downside is you have to wash it a LOT.

Froggy · 12/10/2009, 11:53 AM

The bagged live sand just means it is seeded with bacteria to help stabalize the tank faster. It contains the same baceteria that is found in live rock. This does not mean it has pods, worms etc. in it. A lot of people misunderstand what they are getting and expect the bagged live sand to be the same as the fresh collected live sand which does contain spagetti worms, brisstle worms, pods etc.

The water in the bag keeps the bacteria "live" and has a pretty long shelf life.

That being said, I prefer to set up a tank with dry sand and "seed" that with a couple of cups of real "Live" sand that contains the microfauna as well. This along with live rock works just fine.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/10/2009, 12:01 PM

It's all about bio diversity. If you can seed your tank with live rock and live sand (From a bag) than you're off to a great start. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. However if you want a system teaming with an assortment of different nitrifying bacteria, live sand is definitely an added bonus.

Jeff · 12/10/2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Froggy

The bagged live sand just means it is seeded with bacteria to help stabalize the tank faster. It contains the same baceteria that is found in live rock. This does not mean it has pods, worms etc. in it. A lot of people misunderstand what they are getting and expect the bagged live sand to be the same as the fresh collected live sand which does contain spagetti worms, brisstle worms, pods etc.

The water in the bag keeps the bacteria "live" and has a pretty long shelf life.

That being said, I prefer to set up a tank with dry sand and "seed" that with a couple of cups of real "Live" sand that contains the microfauna as well. This along with live rock works just fine.

Very well said. It's not the same thing as sand out of an established tank. I dont really think it helps much if you are using established live rock and seed sand from an established tank.

der_wille_zur_macht · 12/10/2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I've used sandbox sand before with no major problems. I remember there was one particular brand that people used to try and find because it worked so well. The only downside is you have to wash it a LOT.

Southdown, which was later re-branded as Old Castle. It was extremely fine aragonite sand, and popular when DSBs were all the rage.

Really, just about any dry playsand that's clean and free of contaminants works fine. There have been worries over silica sand, but none of them are well founded.

Juruense · 12/10/2009, 12:12 PM

Nitrifying bacteria live in my body so I just need to spit in a new tank to get it started therefore I have no need for "live sand".

Sisterlimonpot · 12/10/2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juruense

Nitrifying bacteria live in my body so I just need to spit in a new tank to get it started therefore I have no need for "live sand".

How much bacteria would be in spit?

Just pee in the tank! there's quite a bit of ammonia there.

stanlalee · 12/10/2009, 12:25 PM

define live sand. I dont consider bagged sand "live" regardless of whats on the label.

live sand is "live" due to ocean micro-fauna (pods, worms ect) and kept "live" from collection from the ocean to your aquarium much like live rock (I'd expect the survival rate of sand organisms in damp shipped sand is also much better than shipped live rock).

Live sand isn't stored on a shelf. its taken out a running holding tank and shipped to order. Unless you are trying to maintain a deep sand bed or keep dragonets, sleeper gobies ect even "real" live sand is probably a waste of money.

submersible · 12/10/2009, 04:07 PM

"Live sand" sounds better than "Wet Sand".

Chi6488 · 12/10/2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by submersible

"Live sand" sounds better than "Wet Sand".

Yep, and mark it up 100% for us fools. I think by the time we buy the live sand the "life" that was in it has died.

niblit · 12/10/2009, 05:14 PM

in my opinion the prebagged wet sand is an ok purchase but dont expect much from it in terms of life.I use the pre bagged stuff as stated above for the ease of not having to rinse

Sisterlimonpot · 12/10/2009, 05:53 PM

Live sand doesn't mean that it's teaming with little critters it means that there's live nitrifying bacteria on the sand.

That is usually a huge misconception when people talk about live sand and live rock. It has nothing to do with how many pods, worms and other hitchhikers come with it, it solely means bacteria.

Tropix · 12/10/2009, 07:50 PM

I don't know, I went with live sand, when the dry fiji pink sand was not a huge difference but I wanted it more because it makes it less cloudy and I put cured LR and I just went through a mini cycle so not sure if it helps or not.

singold · 12/10/2009, 10:51 PM

Live rock would prob suffice, just depends on how long u want to wait for a completed cycle. The Live sand prob speeds this process up. Technically, if patient, just put one piece of LR in and wait a few months, and add the other necessary LR per gallon total as you go. Also, Live sand does avoid water cloudiness, as mentioned by previous poster.

z34fiend · 12/11/2009, 12:05 AM

I have always used a combination of bagged "live sand" and fresh live sand filled with critters just to cut down on the cost

12/10/2009, 11:07 AM	#1
Saltwat3rAddict Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 78	Live Sand a scam Ive been looking and doing much research and find that live sand is a scam. Water in a bag of sand in my opinion is a scam. Does anyone else agree? I used 25# of lr and my cycle got through in 2 weeks, and i did this without this live sand stuff. __________________ "A handful of patience is worth more than a toilet full of fish" ~FISH~ 2 Percula Clowns (Albert & Terrance) 1 Red Firefish (Thinking of name) 1 Blue Tang 1 Pearly Jawfish ~CORAL~ Galaxy Coral Hammer Coral Orange Ric Green Goni ~CLEANERS~ 3 Nassarius Snails 1 Cleaner shrimp (Pierre)

12/10/2009, 11:13 AM	#5
Saltwat3rAddict Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 78	nice araganite is the way to go =) __________________ "A handful of patience is worth more than a toilet full of fish" ~FISH~ 2 Percula Clowns (Albert & Terrance) 1 Red Firefish (Thinking of name) 1 Blue Tang 1 Pearly Jawfish ~CORAL~ Galaxy Coral Hammer Coral Orange Ric Green Goni ~CLEANERS~ 3 Nassarius Snails 1 Cleaner shrimp (Pierre)

12/10/2009, 11:14 AM	#6
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	While I don't know if I'd call it a scam, the prepackaged on-the-shelf bags of "live sand" are certainly not required to set up a healthy system. In addition, the product you're getting (sand with some bacteria on it) is vastly different than the "live sand" you'd get from an established tank, fresh from the ocean, or aquacultured and sold fresh. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)

12/10/2009, 11:16 AM	#7
mdntrdr Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Illinois Posts: 550	Really, how much life can be in that bag after shipping and lying on the shelf ? I've always used dry sand seeded with a cup of established sand (much cheaper!) Great results. __________________ Midnight Rider Current Tank Info: 220G. AGA ~ RR ~ SSB mixed reef ~ 40G. DSB sump/fuge ~ GFO and GAC reactors ~ 72" Aqualight Pro ~ MRC-MR2 Skimmer ~ THAT'S HOW I RIDE!!!!

12/10/2009, 11:17 AM	#8
Saltwat3rAddict Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 78	ok, im talking prepackaged stuff. im not going to go on with this argument and there is no need to. Its an own opinion thing. Its not worth fighting over.... __________________ "A handful of patience is worth more than a toilet full of fish" ~FISH~ 2 Percula Clowns (Albert & Terrance) 1 Red Firefish (Thinking of name) 1 Blue Tang 1 Pearly Jawfish ~CORAL~ Galaxy Coral Hammer Coral Orange Ric Green Goni ~CLEANERS~ 3 Nassarius Snails 1 Cleaner shrimp (Pierre)

12/10/2009, 11:10 AM	#2
Rhyno_NC Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: wouldn't you like to know Posts: 18	You used LR which has live nitrifying bacteria in and on it. Same with the sand, it has water in it to keep the bacteria in it alive. i would like to know what kind of research you did to "prove" this.

12/10/2009, 11:12 AM	#3
boehm742 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Central ILL Posts: 156	Yes, i as well am interested in what tests/studies you have done on it to come to your conclusion.

12/10/2009, 11:13 AM	#4
Blownsvt Moved On Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 514	I don't know that it is a scam persay. Is it needed? no it's not but you can also start a tank with dry rock if you want vs. live rock. I went the live sand route mostly because it was not all that much more expensive and it does not require all the washing process you go through with other stuff.

12/10/2009, 11:22 AM	#9
Blownsvt Moved On Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 514	how much do you guys pay for Nice ocen dry sand? i know you can get sandbox type sand really cheap but i would never use anything like that in a tank. I thought i did alright getting 120 lbs of live sand for somethig like $110.

12/10/2009, 11:24 AM	#11
SpaceMonkey Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: St. Louis MO Posts: 58	I've used sandbox sand before with no major problems. I remember there was one particular brand that people used to try and find because it worked so well. The only downside is you have to wash it a LOT.

12/10/2009, 11:53 AM	#12
Froggy Reef "Hobbyist"...right!? Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canton, MI Posts: 2,160	The bagged live sand just means it is seeded with bacteria to help stabalize the tank faster. It contains the same baceteria that is found in live rock. This does not mean it has pods, worms etc. in it. A lot of people misunderstand what they are getting and expect the bagged live sand to be the same as the fresh collected live sand which does contain spagetti worms, brisstle worms, pods etc. The water in the bag keeps the bacteria "live" and has a pretty long shelf life. That being said, I prefer to set up a tank with dry sand and "seed" that with a couple of cups of real "Live" sand that contains the microfauna as well. This along with live rock works just fine. __________________ Hello, my name is Joe and I am a reef addict. ......Hi Joe.......... Current Tank Info: 120 gallon mixed reef with TBS live rock, 8 X 54 watt TEK T5's, Euroreef RS250 skimmer

12/10/2009, 12:01 PM	#13
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	It's all about bio diversity. If you can seed your tank with live rock and live sand (From a bag) than you're off to a great start. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. However if you want a system teaming with an assortment of different nitrifying bacteria, live sand is definitely an added bonus. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/10/2009, 12:12 PM	#16
Juruense Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Posts: 1,138	Nitrifying bacteria live in my body so I just need to spit in a new tank to get it started therefore I have no need for "live sand".

12/10/2009, 12:25 PM	#18
stanlalee Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: hampton roads, va Posts: 1,799	define live sand. I dont consider bagged sand "live" regardless of whats on the label. live sand is "live" due to ocean micro-fauna (pods, worms ect) and kept "live" from collection from the ocean to your aquarium much like live rock (I'd expect the survival rate of sand organisms in damp shipped sand is also much better than shipped live rock). Live sand isn't stored on a shelf. its taken out a running holding tank and shipped to order. Unless you are trying to maintain a deep sand bed or keep dragonets, sleeper gobies ect even "real" live sand is probably a waste of money.

12/10/2009, 04:07 PM	#19
submersible Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Brandon, FL Posts: 317	"Live sand" sounds better than "Wet Sand".

12/10/2009, 05:14 PM	#21
niblit Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Jofish A.S.C. Posts: 26	in my opinion the prebagged wet sand is an ok purchase but dont expect much from it in terms of life.I use the pre bagged stuff as stated above for the ease of not having to rinse

12/10/2009, 05:53 PM	#22
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	Live sand doesn't mean that it's teaming with little critters it means that there's live nitrifying bacteria on the sand. That is usually a huge misconception when people talk about live sand and live rock. It has nothing to do with how many pods, worms and other hitchhikers come with it, it solely means bacteria. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/10/2009, 07:50 PM	#23
Tropix Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Pismo Beach, cA Posts: 156	I don't know, I went with live sand, when the dry fiji pink sand was not a huge difference but I wanted it more because it makes it less cloudy and I put cured LR and I just went through a mini cycle so not sure if it helps or not.

12/10/2009, 10:51 PM	#24
singold Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Lake Saint Louis, Missouri Posts: 1,827	Live rock would prob suffice, just depends on how long u want to wait for a completed cycle. The Live sand prob speeds this process up. Technically, if patient, just put one piece of LR in and wait a few months, and add the other necessary LR per gallon total as you go. Also, Live sand does avoid water cloudiness, as mentioned by previous poster. __________________ "If there is no wind.....row." Current Tank Info: 75gal Reef w/29gal Refugium

12/11/2009, 12:05 AM	#25
z34fiend Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: upstate ny Posts: 59	I have always used a combination of bagged "live sand" and fresh live sand filled with critters just to cut down on the cost