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12/21/2009, 11:11 AM | #1 |
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Help with custom sump design....First try
Hello all. I currently have a 29 gallon biocube. I have had this tank since june of 2007. I have since run into a nasty case of bryopsis and lost everything. I just ran a skimmer, all live rock and softies. weekly water changes, etc, etc.
I have been re-sparked into getting this thing going again, because I spent so much time before, and was really down about losing most everything. I was inspired by a Jonnybravo here on RC with his custom sump design and drilling of the tank, so that is what I plan to do. My want is a mixed reef, simple SPS, nothing too crazy, with a mixed of the rest. I will be running 6x 18w t5s on top, I also wanted to incorporate a fuge into this sump design, with a location for a small sized skimmer, and a return pump. This is my first attempt at sketckup AND first try at a design. I am posting it for constructive criticism and improvement suggestions, tell me what I am doing wrong:
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12/21/2009, 01:52 PM | #2 |
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So there isnt ANYBODY that can throw an idea out there? thoughts? anything?
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Daniel |
12/21/2009, 01:55 PM | #3 |
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Think the Fuge may have too much flow?
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12/21/2009, 01:56 PM | #4 |
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I am doing mine kinda like this...
Drain > Skimmer > Return < Fuge < Trickle from drain Hope that made sense... CJ |
12/21/2009, 02:00 PM | #5 |
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i dont know what elements need to be inbetween: Skimmer>Return<fuge
more so, inbetween the fuge and the return, where does the water go into the fuge at?
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12/21/2009, 02:21 PM | #6 |
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12/21/2009, 02:21 PM | #7 |
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OK Ill try and explain, but without pictures it may be a tad hard.
I have 2 20 gallon tanks, that are both drilled in the upper left back. One tank on the left, will be the drain/skimmer chamber, the right hand side will be a return, where my pump will sit. The second tank will be a dedicated fuge. Because the tanks are drilled in the top left back, IF I take the drain/skim/return tank, and turn it 180 degrees, then the hole and bulkhead will be at the top right front. Now it I plumb the 2 tanks together with an S shaped run...Out the back of the fuge, 90 degree left, another 90 degree left, run the pipe between the 2 tanks, 90 degree right, and then another 90 degree right into the next tank, and add a trickle stream of water to the fuge side, by T'ing off the drain line, and adding a valve to control flow, I can trickle water in, and when the water gets high enough to reach the drilled bulkhead, it will flow through the newly plumbed PVC to the other tank, which is the drain, skimmer, return tank. Now for that tank. The water will come in from the tank on the far left, through a filter sock. in the same chamber, my skimmer will reside. from there, the water will flow over a baffle, under a baffle, and then over 1 more baffle to the return chamber. This will keep the water level consistent in the skimmer section. Once the water is in the return section, it will meet up with the trickle from the fuge tank, and be pumped back to the display. I have heard from some of the folks here that a nice slow flow through the fuge would be more beneficial, but I am still really new at this, so I am more asking questions than giving advice. CJ |
12/21/2009, 02:29 PM | #8 |
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So, tee off the return FROM the tank, one with a ball valve to restrict the flow a bit into the fuge, the other part of the tee into the sump to be filtered and then skimmed and returned, correct?
I have been back and forth on Melev's reef, good info, just things started getting confusing when i am trying to design it. I wont be building it, just getting it to custom fit under my stand. It will be built by professionals
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12/21/2009, 02:32 PM | #9 |
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Yes I would T off from the drain line in your situation. One goes into the skimmer section, one into the fuge section. Make the fuge divider quite a bit higher than the rest so it can drain down into the return section. Don't forget to add a ball valve so you can adjust how much flow is going into the fuge.
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Ryan |
12/21/2009, 02:39 PM | #10 |
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I am going to orient my T so that the drain line travels through the T without having to turn any corners, and then point the bottom of the T downwards, and plumb in a valve, and then to the fuge. Dont skimp on unions, so you can tear down and clean whenever necessary.
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12/21/2009, 02:53 PM | #11 |
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I am going to try other ideas too....I just need to know if they are good enough to "produce"
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Daniel |
12/21/2009, 09:02 PM | #12 |
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Jim
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
12/22/2009, 07:43 AM | #13 |
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I like that a lot there Jim, especially the top design.
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Daniel |
12/22/2009, 08:04 AM | #14 |
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Now, hear me out on this:
Could I use a small return pump to supply water to the fuge? I know its an extra cord but I can curb my OCD to make the best possible setup. If that is a yes, then: Should I have the water coming out of the fuge trickle/overflow into the skimmer compartment? or is that a no-no?
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Daniel |
12/22/2009, 08:29 AM | #15 |
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Here is one based off of Jim's designs that I came up with for my tank and stand sizings:
REAR:
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12/22/2009, 08:50 AM | #16 |
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Jim,
The only problem I have with the water from the fuge trickling into the skimmer section is that the water from the fuge gets skimmed. From what I understand, we want the pod/nutrient rich water to enter the tank without being skimmed. Again I am learning, but thats how I understand it... I REALLY like the changes you made to the design btw...Just take the teeth from the fuge to the skimmer area, and put them on the side that empties to the return. With a trickle coming in from the DT there is no need for a pump... What are your thoughts on the fuge water bypassing the skimmer section? CJ |
12/22/2009, 08:57 AM | #17 |
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Jim actually posted the two other sumps, I'm Dan
I thought about that with the skimmer too, but I have seen others similar in design. I was gonna do the seperate pump so I didnt have to tee off the main drain.
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Daniel |
12/22/2009, 09:05 AM | #18 | |
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Sorry Dan,
What is your concern with Ting off the drain? CJ Quote:
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12/22/2009, 09:20 AM | #19 |
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Well, I would rather just have it go straight down, no elbows. So then I can totally control how much water goes into the fuge. well, thats the idea.
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Daniel |
12/22/2009, 09:26 AM | #20 |
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The drain would not have any elbows...the fuge side would have to turn the corner, not the DT > sump line. from what I understand you only want a literal trickle into the fuge, maybe a gallon a minute? Wish a fuge expert could chime in on this too my design has changed several times while researching/planning...lol
CJ |
12/22/2009, 09:34 AM | #21 |
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Well, I would have a small valve on the fuge pump, so total control would be the plan. It would be a small pump at that. I am on my 3rd so far, and I have a feeling this wont be the last....
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Daniel |
12/22/2009, 10:55 AM | #22 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
First you want more than a trickle flowing through the fuge. Perhaps lower to an extent than the flow back to the DT, but not a trickle. A trickle will allow detritus fall out in the fuge, and it will become a garbage dump, rather than export nitrates, as it should be doing. "But I want to produce pods and have a DSB in my fuge" Well ok, but put the DSB somehwere else other than the sump. The flow rate in the fuge is not supposed to be high enough to support a RDSB. Proper flow rate is key to a properly running RDSB, or it turns into a nutrient sink. Flow rate through a fuge is such that this is exactly what will happen if you run a drain line in there. A sump is a waste management system, not a production facility. Combining the two, i.e. adding live rock and sand beds to the sump, makes it a production facility rather and and export facility. The DT is the production facility. (whether that production be nitrates, or copepods as a food source) An RDSB is a export facility only, macro algae, and copepods, and rock are not involved with it, and will interfere with its operation. A living sand bed is a different animal altogether, but also has no place in a sump, seperate from the main food chain.(The DT-- too much mis information concerning sand beds running around to explore this any further) Both the sumps (drawings) above have the same flow logic: skimmer > return < "fuge." I.E. the skimmer and "fuge" sections overflow into the return section. Drain lines enter the skimmer section, and the "fuge" is fed by a tee and a valve in the return line. Only one pump is needed. (other than the skimmer pump.) Jim
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12/22/2009, 02:05 PM | #23 |
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Thanks for clarifying that for me Jim. What kind of flow rate would do a fuge good? enough to tumble cheato but not a full on blast from the return?
CJ |
12/22/2009, 09:27 PM | #24 |
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Well if you want to tumble chaetomorpha, then yes that ought to do it.
Jim
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"Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef |
12/23/2009, 09:15 AM | #25 |
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Ok, so here is my 4th design. Collaborating all together on this one....I am VERY pleased with it. Just hope it will work. FYI, I opted to go with a filter sock as well, it would have its own chamber for the most part to avoid splashing and to minimize micro bubbles:
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