What am i doing wrong? :(

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 10:09 AM

Hey everyone!
First thing i want to say, is that im 16 years old and from Denmark, so my english isn't that good. So sorry if you can't understand everything that i write.

I got a 54L/14 Gal reeftank and it has been up since the start of the summer holidays. The problem is that, i still got to much Nitrate (around 50ppm) in the water althrough i startet changing 10 % water every week some weeks ago. I have also tryed to let the aquarium stand in a month without i do anything exept filling freshwater on. When i started the aqarium saw lots of Bristleworms/fireworms, but i haven't seen any for months now, but i still got millions of pods. The only things else i got in it is a cleaner shrimp, two hermit crabs and some softcorals. None of my zoas seems to open.

I use Tap water for my waterchanges but just got a reverse osmosis yesterday.

My Ph is around 7,8
Cal is around 450 ppm
Mg is around 880 ppm
Nearly no ammonia and nitrit

I used to have a Red Sea Prizm skimmer, but i now got a Algea Scrubber in a bucket. But the only thing that grows on my screen look like cyano and smells bad (smells a bit of death). Another wierd thing about my aqarium is that i nealy got no algea in the display with my 50 ppm nitrate.
On my Starpolyps and sometimes between the live rocks there is some browm beige stuff (i think u call it neutriens or something), do i need a snail to remove it?
I'll post some pics of the tank. What can i do to get my tank going, or do i need to "restart" it all in a bigger setup?

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 10:20 AM

Some more pics:
pic1 : Scrubber screeen - just cleaned so there aren't really much on it.
pic 2 and 3: Closed star polyps so u can see the beige stuff
pic 4: open star polyps

i really hope some of you can help me:

-
Tobias Aakjær, Denmark

graveyardworm · 12/25/2009, 10:25 AM

It sounds like with the improvements you've made that things should start to straighten out. 10% water changes per week isnt even gooing to make a dent in your nitrates. The turf scrubber on the other hand once it gets going should make a major impact along with the RO water, and continued water changes. If you want to get the nitrates down a bit quicker you could increase your water changes, but shouldnt be necessary.

BTW your writing is perfectly legible.

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 10:39 AM

Okay Thx dude.
But shound't there be any algea in the display when i got 50 ppm Nitrate? When the aquarium was cycling there also nearly weren't any algea.

graveyardworm · 12/25/2009, 10:49 AM

BTW

To Reef Central

There may be other factors limiting the algae growth. Low phosphate for example, and competition by the ATS.

Also the ATS should smell bad. The algae that colonizes the mesh is generally quite stinky. I think however you may want to give it a bit more time in between cleaning.

How long has the tank been set up? No fish yet? Can you post the water parameters you are currently testing for?

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 11:01 AM

I started the ATS 3 weeks ago, so i did not have it at the time i started the aquarium. The aquarium have been up since 2 weeks before the summer holidays started - so it around 6 months old and i haven't any fish yet.
parametress 27/11 2009
Salt: 1.024
Temp. 26
NH4 <0,25 mg/L
NO2 <0,015 mg/L
NO3 25-50 mg/L
KH 13 PH 7,6-7,8
Ca 510 mg/L
Mg 840 mg/L

I know it's some time since i testet the parametress, but december a busy month

fixx198 · 12/25/2009, 11:54 AM

I would suggest larger water changes. As far as the algae scrubber i am not familiar with this so do not know if it will help with your nitrates. If you still have your skimmer i would set it up to skim wet. This along with larger and or more frequent water changes should help get the Nitrates under control. They also make media you can put in a reactor to help control the Nitrate. But not extremely effective.
Steve

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 12:37 PM

I still got my skimmer, but the returwater from my scrubber goes down in my skimmer to reduce the microbubles from the scrubber. (bucket is standing over my closet, so it's falling about 1 meter and creates lot of bubbles

MalIII · 12/25/2009, 01:08 PM

Your water paramaters are not right. PH is low, Nitrate too high, MG low. Your flow should be 20 times the volume of the tank. Your rock is working aganist you the way you have it. It is too piled up, not exposed to light and it will trap dirt and create nitrate. Your sand looks like it has algae growing from it. I wonder if it is dirty? You most likely have a build up of stuff in the rock and sand and need to clean the tank.

I would make the following suggestions:

Water Change - I suggest you do a 80% water change. Make up your water in a container. Be sure the water paramaters are what they should be. PH at 8.3, calcium 430, mg at 1300, etc. Temp should match the tank. Add some bacteria to the water and do the change.

Rock - I think you rock is the issue. You need to have the rock spread out more to allow water flow through it. I think there is food and dirt in it causing the nitrate. Search on RC for some ideas. You can use different methods to get your rock to stand up higher and allow water flow all around it. Use some glue, or fiberglass rods to make rock stands. Take it out and wash it in the water from the water change.

Water flow - you need more water flow to push any dirt into the filter and not let it settle on the rock. It is better all around for the system.

Sand - Be sure to use fine arraganite sand. If you sand it dirty, remove it and wash it with salt water from the water change. Then you can put it back with some new live sand. Sand is a major source of problem algae and nitrates if it is dirty. Use a sand vaccum for maintenance. You have the right amount of sand.

palawan · 12/25/2009, 01:11 PM

I would also rethink your rockwork(aquascaping). I say this because your aquascaping design needs to be more open so you can get a lot of water flow with less detritus settling. In the future you will get detritus buildup under the rock which will lead to phosphates and nitrates. My tank is over 5 years old(all sps/zoas) and I have a lot of rock(berlin style) done in the piled wall design and even though my nitrates and phos seem undectable, I know they are still there as evident of algae blooms at times. I am going to redo my aquascaping to be more open and off the sand using pvc tubing. As far as your RO filter I suggest you get a DI cartridge to go with it. RO filtration alone would get you in the single digits but with a DI cartridge it will get it to zero.

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 01:16 PM

Okay i will try to do a rescaping in one of the following days. Could i take all rocks and animals in the aquarium and put it in a very large bucket and then put it in again, stone after stone?

MalIII · 12/25/2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DönitzDK

Okay i will try to do a rescaping in one of the following days. Could i take all rocks and animals in the aquarium and put it in a very large bucket and then put it in again, stone after stone?

Sure. It is best to take out the livestock and put them into a rubbermaid. Then you are free to do what ever you need to do in the tank. I suggest you drip acclimate them back if you do a large water change, as suggested. Have some extra water to replace the water lost.

Recently, I was having the same problems as you. I took out everything, cleaned the sand, washed off the rocks and put it all back and added bacteria. Nitrates are near zero now. The livestock was fine.

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 02:33 PM

2 Questions:
How do i clean the sand best?
How do i add bacteria?

MalIII · 12/25/2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DönitzDK

2 Questions:
How do i clean the sand best?
How do i add bacteria?

Clean the sand:

Take out the sand. Put a few inches of sand in a bucket. Add salt water (from the water change) and mix. The water will flush the dirt get dirty. Pour off the dirty water. Repeat until water is clean. Save the sand. Repeat process with new dirty sand until clean. When all sand is clean, put back into tank.

Add bacteria:
Use a product for this. I recommend Marine TLC from Aquatic Bio control. I use it in all my systems and it works. It is not a chemical, only bacteria. You can't overdose.

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 03:10 PM

I don't know if i can get it here in Denmark, and i am a bit out of money anyway (im 16 years old and i get paid 11 $/hour, and i have already spent over 1150 $ for this tank and all the live stock, pumps and scrubber.

But i've seen somewhere, that u can put a bit of earth in a waterbottle together with some saltwater and the shake it together and then let the earth fall down to the bottom of the bottle and then use the water in the tanks, which now should be full of bateria? Is that true?

MalIII · 12/25/2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DönitzDK

I don't know if i can get it here in Denmark, and i am a bit out of money anyway (im 16 years old and i get paid 11 $/hour, and i have already spent over 1150 $ for this tank and all the live stock, pumps and scrubber.

But i've seen somewhere, that u can put a bit of earth in a waterbottle together with some saltwater and the shake it together and then let the earth fall down to the bottom of the bottle and then use the water in the tanks, which now should be full of bateria? Is that true?

I did not know you were in Denmark. There are several other bacteria products on the market. This is less then $10 us. If you don't have $10, then go without. The live rock will replenish the bacterial in time. Just do not overstock for a couple weeks.

I have no idea about the earth trick!

fixx198 · 12/25/2009, 04:33 PM

i do not think the rock work is the main issue here. If it is just add a power head or two In the tank to kick up the flow. I have seen allot of tanks with rock work stacked worse than yours and they are doing fine. As far as your levels i would increase the mag. and decrease the ALk and try to get Ph to 8.3. Do this in small increments as not to stress your tank inhabitants. Then a couple of major water changes and your Nitrates should come down. when removing water from your tank siphon off any loose debree from the sand or rock work. Run your skimmer for a couple weeks and this will also help. You can move your rock work around but i do not think it will help. Also if you remove all your rock and sand to clean you may end up sending your tank into another cycle. which your corals and fish will not like.
steve

Marsha · 12/25/2009, 04:42 PM

I would think that a water change with the new RO water mix of about 50% today and 20% daily for 3 or 4 days and you will have your nitrates down. Also flow in the tank is easier than reworking your rock, add a powerhead or two.

To Reef Central

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 04:46 PM

I dont have any fish yet^^

I thought that i had enough flow, sorry if i didn't say how much flow i got but i got these pumps:

A tunze 6025 with 2500 L/H
a unknown pump with 1500 L/H
and then the pump wich move the water from the aquarium into the bucket with 2000 L/H ( i have decreased the water flow from this pump, so i only think that it is about 700-1000 L/H)
total: 4700 - 5000 L/h in a 54L reeftank

MalIII · 12/25/2009, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fixx198

i do not think the rock work is the main issue here. If it is just add a power head or two In the tank to kick up the flow. I have seen allot of tanks with rock work stacked worse than yours and they are doing fine. As far as your levels i would increase the mag. and decrease the ALk and try to get Ph to 8.3. Do this in small increments as not to stress your tank inhabitants. Then a couple of major water changes and your Nitrates should come down. when removing water from your tank siphon off any loose debree from the sand or rock work. Run your skimmer for a couple weeks and this will also help. You can move your rock work around but i do not think it will help. Also if you remove all your rock and sand to clean you may end up sending your tank into another cycle. which your corals and fish will not like.
steve

You can compare this tank aganist any other, but it does not matter. You dod not know what is in THIS rockwork. Nitrates are from decay of matter. I believe the tank is "dirty".

Adding addatives to fix the water is a waist if you are changing the water. That is tossing money. Put the addatives into the new make up water that will stay in the tank. Don't try to fix the water with the high nitrates.

If the rock is cured, taking it out and cleaning the system will not make a new cycle unless you kill the bacteria with fresh water. Use salt water from the tank. I have done it many times with no problems.

When done, run your skimmer to keep the dirt and nutrients out of the tank and maintain it.

MalIII · 12/25/2009, 04:52 PM

From what I can tell, you have enough flow. Just change the rock so it works better.

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 04:53 PM

Okay, but if i want my skimmer back i need to remove my scrubber. The outlet from the scrubberbucket runs down in my skimmer because else it would create loads of micro airbubbles. Is there a way to create a bubbletrap inside the reeftank to avoid these bubbles

DönitzDK · 12/25/2009, 04:54 PM

What kind of aquascaping works best? Tree-looking scapes? Can you explain it in words or something?

MalIII · 12/25/2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DönitzDK

Okay, but if i want my skimmer back i need to remove my scrubber. The outlet from the scrubberbucket runs down in my skimmer because else it would create loads of micro airbubbles. Is there a way to create a bubbletrap inside the reeftank to avoid these bubbles

Sure. You can use a sox on the end of the tube to filter bubbles.

MalIII · 12/25/2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DönitzDK

What kind of aquascaping works best? Tree-looking scapes? Can you explain it in words or something?

Make it like this

http://static.keebali.com/thereeftan...7112_1_FTS.jpg

There is a thread here on RC that tells all about this. I will see if I can find it. You can use fiberglass rods. You drill holes into the rock and insert them on a fiberglass rod so they stand up. you get 90 percent utalization of your live rock. There are other ideas too, but you get the idea.

12/25/2009, 10:25 AM	#3
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	It sounds like with the improvements you've made that things should start to straighten out. 10% water changes per week isnt even gooing to make a dent in your nitrates. The turf scrubber on the other hand once it gets going should make a major impact along with the RO water, and continued water changes. If you want to get the nitrates down a bit quicker you could increase your water changes, but shouldnt be necessary. BTW your writing is perfectly legible. __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

12/25/2009, 10:49 AM	#5
graveyardworm Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nottingham, NH Posts: 7,251	BTW *To Reef Central* There may be other factors limiting the algae growth. Low phosphate for example, and competition by the ATS. Also the ATS should smell bad. The algae that colonizes the mesh is generally quite stinky. I think however you may want to give it a bit more time in between cleaning. How long has the tank been set up? No fish yet? Can you post the water parameters you are currently testing for? __________________ -David- President - New Hampshire Reef Club There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave Current Tank Info: 100 gal lagoon/seagrass, 100 gal sump, Lifereef 72" skimmer, 180 inwall, 125 inwall seagrass/lagoon in progress

12/25/2009, 04:42 PM	#18
Marsha Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Mesa. AZ Posts: 253	I would think that a water change with the new RO water mix of about 50% today and 20% daily for 3 or 4 days and you will have your nitrates down. Also flow in the tank is easier than reworking your rock, add a powerhead or two. *To Reef Central* __________________ The only thing I control is my reaction to what happens around me. Current Tank Info: 125 gallon saltwater

12/25/2009, 04:46 PM	#19
DönitzDK Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tranbjerg, Denmark Posts: 20	I dont have any fish yet^^ I thought that i had enough flow, sorry if i didn't say how much flow i got but i got these pumps: A tunze 6025 with 2500 L/H a unknown pump with 1500 L/H and then the pump wich move the water from the aquarium into the bucket with 2000 L/H ( i have decreased the water flow from this pump, so i only think that it is about 700-1000 L/H) total: 4700 - 5000 L/h in a 54L reeftank __________________ Only a fool tests the depth of the water with both feet. I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination. Current Tank Info: 5 Gal PiCOARIUM! PURE BEAUTY!

12/25/2009, 04:53 PM	#22
DönitzDK Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tranbjerg, Denmark Posts: 20	Okay, but if i want my skimmer back i need to remove my scrubber. The outlet from the scrubberbucket runs down in my skimmer because else it would create loads of micro airbubbles. Is there a way to create a bubbletrap inside the reeftank to avoid these bubbles __________________ Only a fool tests the depth of the water with both feet. I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination. Current Tank Info: 5 Gal PiCOARIUM! PURE BEAUTY!

12/25/2009, 10:39 AM	#4
DönitzDK Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tranbjerg, Denmark Posts: 20	Okay Thx dude. But shound't there be any algea in the display when i got 50 ppm Nitrate? When the aquarium was cycling there also nearly weren't any algea.

12/25/2009, 11:01 AM	#6
DönitzDK Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tranbjerg, Denmark Posts: 20	I started the ATS 3 weeks ago, so i did not have it at the time i started the aquarium. The aquarium have been up since 2 weeks before the summer holidays started - so it around 6 months old and i haven't any fish yet. parametress 27/11 2009 Salt: 1.024 Temp. 26 NH4 <0,25 mg/L NO2 <0,015 mg/L NO3 25-50 mg/L KH 13 PH 7,6-7,8 Ca 510 mg/L Mg 840 mg/L I know it's some time since i testet the parametress, but december a busy month

12/25/2009, 11:54 AM	#7
fixx198 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 155	I would suggest larger water changes. As far as the algae scrubber i am not familiar with this so do not know if it will help with your nitrates. If you still have your skimmer i would set it up to skim wet. This along with larger and or more frequent water changes should help get the Nitrates under control. They also make media you can put in a reactor to help control the Nitrate. But not extremely effective. Steve

12/25/2009, 12:37 PM	#8
DönitzDK Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tranbjerg, Denmark Posts: 20	I still got my skimmer, but the returwater from my scrubber goes down in my skimmer to reduce the microbubles from the scrubber. (bucket is standing over my closet, so it's falling about 1 meter and creates lot of bubbles

12/25/2009, 01:08 PM	#9
MalIII Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 77	Your water paramaters are not right. PH is low, Nitrate too high, MG low. Your flow should be 20 times the volume of the tank. Your rock is working aganist you the way you have it. It is too piled up, not exposed to light and it will trap dirt and create nitrate. Your sand looks like it has algae growing from it. I wonder if it is dirty? You most likely have a build up of stuff in the rock and sand and need to clean the tank. I would make the following suggestions: Water Change - I suggest you do a 80% water change. Make up your water in a container. Be sure the water paramaters are what they should be. PH at 8.3, calcium 430, mg at 1300, etc. Temp should match the tank. Add some bacteria to the water and do the change. Rock - I think you rock is the issue. You need to have the rock spread out more to allow water flow through it. I think there is food and dirt in it causing the nitrate. Search on RC for some ideas. You can use different methods to get your rock to stand up higher and allow water flow all around it. Use some glue, or fiberglass rods to make rock stands. Take it out and wash it in the water from the water change. Water flow - you need more water flow to push any dirt into the filter and not let it settle on the rock. It is better all around for the system. Sand - Be sure to use fine arraganite sand. If you sand it dirty, remove it and wash it with salt water from the water change. Then you can put it back with some new live sand. Sand is a major source of problem algae and nitrates if it is dirty. Use a sand vaccum for maintenance. You have the right amount of sand.

12/25/2009, 01:11 PM	#10
palawan Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremont,CA Posts: 960	I would also rethink your rockwork(aquascaping). I say this because your aquascaping design needs to be more open so you can get a lot of water flow with less detritus settling. In the future you will get detritus buildup under the rock which will lead to phosphates and nitrates. My tank is over 5 years old(all sps/zoas) and I have a lot of rock(berlin style) done in the piled wall design and even though my nitrates and phos seem undectable, I know they are still there as evident of algae blooms at times. I am going to redo my aquascaping to be more open and off the sand using pvc tubing. As far as your RO filter I suggest you get a DI cartridge to go with it. RO filtration alone would get you in the single digits but with a DI cartridge it will get it to zero.

12/25/2009, 01:16 PM	#11
DönitzDK Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tranbjerg, Denmark Posts: 20	Okay i will try to do a rescaping in one of the following days. Could i take all rocks and animals in the aquarium and put it in a very large bucket and then put it in again, stone after stone?

12/25/2009, 02:33 PM	#13
DönitzDK Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tranbjerg, Denmark Posts: 20	2 Questions: How do i clean the sand best? How do i add bacteria?

12/25/2009, 03:10 PM	#15
DönitzDK Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tranbjerg, Denmark Posts: 20	I don't know if i can get it here in Denmark, and i am a bit out of money anyway (im 16 years old and i get paid 11 $/hour, and i have already spent over 1150 $ for this tank and all the live stock, pumps and scrubber. But i've seen somewhere, that u can put a bit of earth in a waterbottle together with some saltwater and the shake it together and then let the earth fall down to the bottom of the bottle and then use the water in the tanks, which now should be full of bateria? Is that true?

12/25/2009, 04:33 PM	#17
fixx198 Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sarasota, FL Posts: 155	i do not think the rock work is the main issue here. If it is just add a power head or two In the tank to kick up the flow. I have seen allot of tanks with rock work stacked worse than yours and they are doing fine. As far as your levels i would increase the mag. and decrease the ALk and try to get Ph to 8.3. Do this in small increments as not to stress your tank inhabitants. Then a couple of major water changes and your Nitrates should come down. when removing water from your tank siphon off any loose debree from the sand or rock work. Run your skimmer for a couple weeks and this will also help. You can move your rock work around but i do not think it will help. Also if you remove all your rock and sand to clean you may end up sending your tank into another cycle. which your corals and fish will not like. steve

12/25/2009, 04:52 PM	#21
MalIII Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 77	From what I can tell, you have enough flow. Just change the rock so it works better.

12/25/2009, 04:54 PM	#23
DönitzDK Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Tranbjerg, Denmark Posts: 20	What kind of aquascaping works best? Tree-looking scapes? Can you explain it in words or something? __________________ Only a fool tests the depth of the water with both feet. I can't change the direction of the wind, but I can adjust my sails to always reach my destination. Current Tank Info: 5 Gal PiCOARIUM! PURE BEAUTY!