Sump help

BIGTEXT · 12/29/2009, 09:16 PM

Ok I am ready to just shut this thing off and sell it.

I have a 55 gallon display tank and a 20 gallon eshopps sump. The overflow box is the eshopps PF-300 and the return pump is a mag 5.

No matter what I do I cant get the water level in the pump section of the sump to be consistent. I have a ball valve installed on the return and it has to be nearly all the way closed or the sump drains out. But if I move the valve the tiniest amount the other way the sump doesn't drain fast enough.

Its really nice having my skimmer and everything down in the sump but wow, I just don't know if this is worth all the trouble. Every time I think I have the valve set right, I come check on it hours later and the sump is either running dry or about to overflow. At least everything was working before.

Please help!

Daimyo68 · 12/29/2009, 09:43 PM

What size is the return plumbing?

hogben · 12/29/2009, 09:43 PM

We are looking at a 500gph pump with like what 5 feet of head pressure? That puts it at 250-300gph or so.

This sump:

This overflow box which is rated at 300gph:

What does the display and sump look like when all the pumps are off?

There should be no danger of overflowing when it is setup correctly. And i don't think you should need to throttle that pump very much with the ball valve.

When the return pump is off the overflow box siphon stops right? How much water is in the sump at that point? If it is pretty empty you may need to add more water, especially if the sump is draining out.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/29/2009, 09:51 PM

Sounds like the drain/overflow isn't rated for the amount of flow. It should work naturally. When you turn off the mag 5, can the sump handle the water that is siphoned back into the sump. try turning off the pump and allow the water to drain back into the sump, it shouldn’t over flow (if it does you have too much water in it and it needs to be removed) once you get it to hold all the water open the valve all the way and turn on the pump it should work naturally, if it doesn't than your overflow isn't right.

BIGTEXT · 12/29/2009, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogben

We are looking at a 500gph pump with like what 5 feet of head pressure? That puts it at 250-300gph or so.

This sump:

This overflow box which is rated at 300gph:

What does the display and sump look like when all the pumps are off?

There should be no danger of overflowing when it is setup correctly. And i don't think you should need to throttle that pump very much with the ball valve.

When the return pump is off the overflow box siphon stops right? How much water is in the sump at that point? If it is pretty empty you may need to add more water, especially if the sump is draining out.

Yea the siphon stops. The water level is just slightly above the baffle that leads into the pump area. This is where im somewhat confused. Theres a little "water level" indicator that is stamped across both the pump area and the main sump area. Ive been trying to maintain the water level in the pump area at that indicator.

The line feeding down to the sump (from the overflow) usually just has a slight trickle to it. Should this be more violent?

Edit: Return line is 4 feet.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/29/2009, 10:21 PM

yes it needs to be more than a trickle. the overflow should be equal to the return.

BIGTEXT · 12/29/2009, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

yes it needs to be more than a trickle. the overflow should be equal to the return.

Well it is equal when I close the ball valve a whole bunch. How can I get the overflow to work faster? I thought to just shove it down in the water further but then the water level will be lower than what I want.

Where do people normally set their water level? Maybe I'm just trying to keep it to high.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/29/2009, 10:31 PM

What you're talking about should happen naturally. So let’s take it down to the basics. Do you have air in the tube that goes over the tank? There shouldn't be air in there and will cause flow restriction.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/29/2009, 10:34 PM

It sounds like something simple but in order to know what it is, can you take some pictures of the HOB overflow, the sump and the return pump?

Chris27 · 12/29/2009, 10:52 PM

It sounds like there could be something caught in the drain line - possibly a shell that is rotating around like a flapper, sometimes letting water by, sometimes blocking it...

The drain should violently dump water into your sump - if your's isn't - it's time to figure out why.

BIGTEXT · 12/29/2009, 11:02 PM

OK I just checked the drain line and its clear.

Heres the pictures. Thanks so much for trying to help me.

There is an air bubble in the overflow u tube right now but I had problems before even without that air bubble.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...0/IMG_0936.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...0/IMG_0937.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...0/IMG_0938.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...0/IMG_0939.jpg

Shane Hoffman · 12/29/2009, 11:18 PM

It looks like you dont have enough water in the sump. With all of the pumps off fill the sump up to atleast the top of the baffels. I would fill it all the way to within about 3 or 4 inches from the top (with all pumps off. Then start up your pump and the water should start flowing. Also it looks like you may need to lower your overflow just a bit....

Sisterlimonpot · 12/29/2009, 11:23 PM

+1 Although I would fill it higher than 3-4 and make it 1-2 inches from the top (WHEN THE PUMPS ARE OFF)

BIGTEXT · 12/29/2009, 11:26 PM

Ok I'll go do that right now.

Just curious but what exactly is the reasoning behind the "water level" marking on the front of the sump if I should be filling it nearly to the top?

Shane Hoffman · 12/29/2009, 11:26 PM

That water level marking is the recommended water level WHEN THE SYSTEM IS RUNNING

Shane Hoffman · 12/29/2009, 11:28 PM

Its a safety. The manufacturer is telling you that when the systemn is running if you dont fill it above there you will be safe from overflowing the sump. The true test is filling your sump to near the top with the pumps off and then kicking it on. It will probably be a bit above their line.

Seanile · 12/29/2009, 11:29 PM

I second or third that...water level is low, theres no water in the overflow..hence the trickle

Shane Hoffman · 12/29/2009, 11:29 PM

You really dont want to restrict the outflow of that pump to much. It can shorten the life of it..............not alot but it doesnt help.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/29/2009, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shane Hoffman

Its a safety. The manufacturer is telling you that when the systemn is running if you dont fill it above there you will be safe from overflowing the sump. The true test is filling your sump to near the top with the pumps off and then kicking it on. It will probably be a bit above their line.

And to add to that different pumps will raise or lower that level with the more or less GPH, respectively

BIGTEXT · 12/29/2009, 11:49 PM

Wow thanks so much guys! It seems to be working great now with the pump all the way open, now its kicking my sand bed up but I can fix that.

Now the splashing is a lot louder. Anything I can do about that? Sounds like there is a waterfall in my living room.

Chris27 · 12/30/2009, 08:51 AM

You can try rigging up a filter sock in there to collect the water, It should quiet things up a bit.

hogben · 12/30/2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGTEXT

Wow thanks so much guys! It seems to be working great now with the pump all the way open, now its kicking my sand bed up but I can fix that.

Now the splashing is a lot louder. Anything I can do about that? Sounds like there is a waterfall in my living room.

hooray!

Toadally · 01/02/2010, 05:31 PM

still want to sell?

jk1nole · 01/02/2010, 06:24 PM

+1 on the filter sock. I had to jimmy mine under the flow. I hung it on the top of the sump with a broken plastic coat hanger and just shoved it in the best I could. It quiets it down some and makes the tank a lot cleaner.

12/29/2009, 09:16 PM	#1
BIGTEXT Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 59	Sump help Ok I am ready to just shut this thing off and sell it. I have a 55 gallon display tank and a 20 gallon eshopps sump. The overflow box is the eshopps PF-300 and the return pump is a mag 5. No matter what I do I cant get the water level in the pump section of the sump to be consistent. I have a ball valve installed on the return and it has to be nearly all the way closed or the sump drains out. But if I move the valve the tiniest amount the other way the sump doesn't drain fast enough. Its really nice having my skimmer and everything down in the sump but wow, I just don't know if this is worth all the trouble. Every time I think I have the valve set right, I come check on it hours later and the sump is either running dry or about to overflow. At least everything was working before. Please help!

12/29/2009, 09:43 PM	#2
Daimyo68 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: North Palm Beach, FL Posts: 2,270	What size is the return plumbing? __________________ 120g, 50g Sump, SRO XP2000i, MP40W x2, DIY Hybrid LED/T5 Fixture, Apex PBMAS VP 2010-11 PBMAS 2017 President Last edited by Daimyo68; 12/29/2009 at 10:39 PM.

12/29/2009, 09:51 PM	#4
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	Sounds like the drain/overflow isn't rated for the amount of flow. It should work naturally. When you turn off the mag 5, can the sump handle the water that is siphoned back into the sump. try turning off the pump and allow the water to drain back into the sump, it shouldn’t over flow (if it does you have too much water in it and it needs to be removed) once you get it to hold all the water open the valve all the way and turn on the pump it should work naturally, if it doesn't than your overflow isn't right. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/29/2009, 10:21 PM	#6
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	yes it needs to be more than a trickle. the overflow should be equal to the return. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/29/2009, 10:31 PM	#8
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	What you're talking about should happen naturally. So let’s take it down to the basics. Do you have air in the tube that goes over the tank? There shouldn't be air in there and will cause flow restriction. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/29/2009, 09:43 PM	#3
hogben Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 376	We are looking at a 500gph pump with like what 5 feet of head pressure? That puts it at 250-300gph or so. This sump: This overflow box which is rated at 300gph: What does the display and sump look like when all the pumps are off? There should be no danger of overflowing when it is setup correctly. And i don't think you should need to throttle that pump very much with the ball valve. When the return pump is off the overflow box siphon stops right? How much water is in the sump at that point? If it is pretty empty you may need to add more water, especially if the sump is draining out.

12/29/2009, 10:34 PM	#9
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	It sounds like something simple but in order to know what it is, can you take some pictures of the HOB overflow, the sump and the return pump? __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/29/2009, 10:52 PM	#10
Chris27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 4,452	It sounds like there could be something caught in the drain line - possibly a shell that is rotating around like a flapper, sometimes letting water by, sometimes blocking it... The drain should violently dump water into your sump - if your's isn't - it's time to figure out why.

12/29/2009, 11:02 PM	#11
BIGTEXT Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 59	OK I just checked the drain line and its clear. Heres the pictures. Thanks so much for trying to help me. There is an air bubble in the overflow u tube right now but I had problems before even without that air bubble. http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...0/IMG_0936.jpg http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...0/IMG_0937.jpg http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...0/IMG_0938.jpg http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...0/IMG_0939.jpg

12/29/2009, 11:18 PM	#12
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	It looks like you dont have enough water in the sump. With all of the pumps off fill the sump up to atleast the top of the baffels. I would fill it all the way to within about 3 or 4 inches from the top (with all pumps off. Then start up your pump and the water should start flowing. Also it looks like you may need to lower your overflow just a bit.... __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

12/29/2009, 11:23 PM	#13
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	+1 Although I would fill it higher than 3-4 and make it 1-2 inches from the top (WHEN THE PUMPS ARE OFF) __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/29/2009, 11:26 PM	#14
BIGTEXT Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 59	Ok I'll go do that right now. Just curious but what exactly is the reasoning behind the "water level" marking on the front of the sump if I should be filling it nearly to the top?

12/29/2009, 11:28 PM	#16
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	Its a safety. The manufacturer is telling you that when the systemn is running if you dont fill it above there you will be safe from overflowing the sump. The true test is filling your sump to near the top with the pumps off and then kicking it on. It will probably be a bit above their line. __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

12/29/2009, 11:29 PM	#17
Seanile Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Ontario Posts: 19	I second or third that...water level is low, theres no water in the overflow..hence the trickle

12/29/2009, 11:49 PM	#20
BIGTEXT Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 59	Wow thanks so much guys! It seems to be working great now with the pump all the way open, now its kicking my sand bed up but I can fix that. Now the splashing is a lot louder. Anything I can do about that? Sounds like there is a waterfall in my living room.

12/30/2009, 08:51 AM	#21
Chris27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 4,452	You can try rigging up a filter sock in there to collect the water, It should quiet things up a bit.

01/02/2010, 05:31 PM	#23
Toadally Registered Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Mount Holly, NC Posts: 986	still want to sell? __________________ _Michael "Who was the first person to look at a cow and say, "I think I'll squeeze these dangly things here, and drink whatever comes out?" Reef Aquarium Society of Charlotte (RASOC) Treasurer Current Tank Info: 57gal. Illuminata, Bubble Magus Skimmer, Tek Elite 6x39w, 40gal. Breeder, 2x A150w Kessil LED

01/02/2010, 06:24 PM	#24
jk1nole Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 211	+1 on the filter sock. I had to jimmy mine under the flow. I hung it on the top of the sump with a broken plastic coat hanger and just shoved it in the best I could. It quiets it down some and makes the tank a lot cleaner.