Sump/'fuge Question

Dlhirst · 12/31/2009, 10:47 AM

If I were to add a SMALL sump - say 10gal - to my tank, would it need its own heater? Or would the heater in the DT keep all the water warm? FWIW, I haven't had any trouble keeping the tank at 79F, and it's in the coldest room of our house, with Michigan winter right now.

HulaDad · 12/31/2009, 10:48 AM

Just one heater, I have the heaters in my two tanks in the DT and not in the sump also... Water stays at 78-79....

HulaDad · 12/31/2009, 10:51 AM

Just one heater per tank and sump, as long as it's rated for the water volume you have... I'd say an extra 10 gallons of water the heater you have should be fine....

Sisterlimonpot · 12/31/2009, 10:52 AM

You don't need a specific heater in your sump just to heat the water in there. The heaters that you use to heat the DT will heat the sump/fuge as well.

One heater is dangerous, if that one fails (and they usually fail in the on position) it will cook your livestock. I would take the wattage that is necessary to heat your tank and divide it into 2 and put them in the tank. That way if one fails it's not going to boil your tank.

Chiefsurfer · 12/31/2009, 10:58 AM

^^^+1

Also, you might want tp put both heaters(or one if you stick with that) in the Sump. That is one of the primary reasons for a fuge is to hide equipment. However, if it won't fit in there(can usually be run horizontally to be below the water) then leaving it in the DT should be fine. I doubt you would need any more heating for the addition of 10 gallons.

Dlhirst · 12/31/2009, 10:59 AM

Redundancy! Yes, that actually makes a lot of sense. But, how does that protect from the heater going to boil? Is the idea that one "undersized" heater going atomic can't heat that tank up too much?
Thanks for the tip. Wish it had occurred to me in the first place.

Sisterlimonpot · 12/31/2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dlhirst

Redundancy! Yes, that actually makes a lot of sense. But, how does that protect from the heater going to boil? Is the idea that one "undersized" heater going atomic can't heat that tank up too much?
Thanks for the tip. Wish it had occurred to me in the first place.

exactly, if 1 fails than you'll notice a sight rise in temp and can correct it without harming your tank.

Chiefsurfer · 12/31/2009, 11:11 AM

yes. Let's say 100 wats heats 35 gallons. If you have 2 50's, when you have a 50 on full time(stuck on) it won't boil the water. There is enough heat exchange, and heat loss to keep it at a safe level. If the 2nd is working correctly, it will not turn on unless it dips below the set temperature.

Another thing, if the heaters are in your Display Tank, you can stick them at opposite ends, which will help your temperature more accurate throughout the tank. If in your sump, then it's all about the same.

You can re-create the same redundancy with a temperature controller, that even if it was stuck on, would act as another thermostat, turning off the heater when it goes too high. This option is usually much more expensive, where the multiple heater is a cheaper option.

You can also SLIGHTLY oversize 1/2 of the original heater size. Just as a for instance. Lets say that you have 1 300 watt heater. You can go with 2 175W heaters. It will give you a BIT more power if needed, and it will also be easily low enough power that it can't overheat the tank. My tank says I should have 100 watts of power, and I have a 75W and 50W. My reason for jumping one up is that during the day my house can get down to about 55 degrees(while i am at work) so I wanted just a bit more UMMF when they needed the extra power.

Dlhirst · 12/31/2009, 11:17 AM

Thanks, Chiefsurfer. Understand completely now. My RSM tank has a built in sump in the back of the tank where all the equipment hides. Of course, that limits me to one heater there. But, when I figure out how to plumb for a "detached sump", I can put the second heater in it...

Sisterlimonpot · 12/31/2009, 11:19 AM

Sounds like you got it. Good luck with your new sump/fuge. You won’t regret adding it.

MOB1224 · 12/31/2009, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dlhirst

Thanks, Chiefsurfer. Understand completely now. My RSM tank has a built in sump in the back of the tank where all the equipment hides. Of course, that limits me to one heater there. But, when I figure out how to plumb for a "detached sump", I can put the second heater in it...

Did u have 2 buy any add ons for the RSM tank? I was thinking about getting one but Im not sure LMK

Sisterlimonpot · 12/31/2009, 01:53 PM

well you're going to need an overflow and a return pump.

HulaDad · 12/31/2009, 01:56 PM

Seems like I need to pick up a new heater for the under tank fuge on my 34g Solana as well, never really thought much about one heater malfunctioning... Good tip....

Sisterlimonpot · 12/31/2009, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HulaDad

Seems like I need to pick up a new heater for the under tank fuge on my 34g Solana as well, never really thought much about one heater malfunctioning... Good tip....

Another one averting disaster by being a member of RC

12/31/2009, 10:47 AM	#1
Dlhirst Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 112	Sump/'fuge Question If I were to add a SMALL sump - say 10gal - to my tank, would it need its own heater? Or would the heater in the DT keep all the water warm? FWIW, I haven't had any trouble keeping the tank at 79F, and it's in the coldest room of our house, with Michigan winter right now. __________________ My biggest fear is that when I die, my wife will sell off all my stuff for the prices I told her I paid for them! Current Tank Info: 66 gal Red Sea Max, 2 ocellaris, Yellow Tang, Flame Wrasse, Coral Beuty, CuC totalling a dozen or so varmints. And some Live Rock covered in 'shrooms, zoas, palys, and more.

12/31/2009, 10:48 AM	#2
HulaDad Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dallas, NC Posts: 202	Just one heater, I have the heaters in my two tanks in the DT and not in the sump also... Water stays at 78-79.... __________________ 180g FOWLR with a few corals 34g Solana Reef 7.5g Reef w/DIY led's 400g FOWLR in the works

12/31/2009, 10:51 AM	#3
HulaDad Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dallas, NC Posts: 202	Just one heater per tank and sump, as long as it's rated for the water volume you have... I'd say an extra 10 gallons of water the heater you have should be fine.... __________________ 180g FOWLR with a few corals 34g Solana Reef 7.5g Reef w/DIY led's 400g FOWLR in the works

12/31/2009, 10:52 AM	#4
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	You don't need a specific heater in your sump just to heat the water in there. The heaters that you use to heat the DT will heat the sump/fuge as well. One heater is dangerous, if that one fails (and they usually fail in the on position) it will cook your livestock. I would take the wattage that is necessary to heat your tank and divide it into 2 and put them in the tank. That way if one fails it's not going to boil your tank. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/31/2009, 10:59 AM	#6
Dlhirst Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 112	Redundancy! Yes, that actually makes a lot of sense. But, how does that protect from the heater going to boil? Is the idea that one "undersized" heater going atomic can't heat that tank up too much? Thanks for the tip. Wish it had occurred to me in the first place. __________________ My biggest fear is that when I die, my wife will sell off all my stuff for the prices I told her I paid for them! Current Tank Info: 66 gal Red Sea Max, 2 ocellaris, Yellow Tang, Flame Wrasse, Coral Beuty, CuC totalling a dozen or so varmints. And some Live Rock covered in 'shrooms, zoas, palys, and more.

12/31/2009, 10:58 AM	#5
Chiefsurfer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Seaside Park, NJ Posts: 2,138	^^^+1 Also, you might want tp put both heaters(or one if you stick with that) in the Sump. That is one of the primary reasons for a fuge is to hide equipment. However, if it won't fit in there(can usually be run horizontally to be below the water) then leaving it in the DT should be fine. I doubt you would need any more heating for the addition of 10 gallons.

12/31/2009, 11:11 AM	#8
Chiefsurfer Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Seaside Park, NJ Posts: 2,138	yes. Let's say 100 wats heats 35 gallons. If you have 2 50's, when you have a 50 on full time(stuck on) it won't boil the water. There is enough heat exchange, and heat loss to keep it at a safe level. If the 2nd is working correctly, it will not turn on unless it dips below the set temperature. Another thing, if the heaters are in your Display Tank, you can stick them at opposite ends, which will help your temperature more accurate throughout the tank. If in your sump, then it's all about the same. You can re-create the same redundancy with a temperature controller, that even if it was stuck on, would act as another thermostat, turning off the heater when it goes too high. This option is usually much more expensive, where the multiple heater is a cheaper option. You can also SLIGHTLY oversize 1/2 of the original heater size. Just as a for instance. Lets say that you have 1 300 watt heater. You can go with 2 175W heaters. It will give you a BIT more power if needed, and it will also be easily low enough power that it can't overheat the tank. My tank says I should have 100 watts of power, and I have a 75W and 50W. My reason for jumping one up is that during the day my house can get down to about 55 degrees(while i am at work) so I wanted just a bit more UMMF when they needed the extra power.

12/31/2009, 11:17 AM	#9
Dlhirst Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Detroit Posts: 112	Thanks, Chiefsurfer. Understand completely now. My RSM tank has a built in sump in the back of the tank where all the equipment hides. Of course, that limits me to one heater there. But, when I figure out how to plumb for a "detached sump", I can put the second heater in it... __________________ My biggest fear is that when I die, my wife will sell off all my stuff for the prices I told her I paid for them! Current Tank Info: 66 gal Red Sea Max, 2 ocellaris, Yellow Tang, Flame Wrasse, Coral Beuty, CuC totalling a dozen or so varmints. And some Live Rock covered in 'shrooms, zoas, palys, and more.

12/31/2009, 11:19 AM	#10
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	Sounds like you got it. Good luck with your new sump/fuge. You won’t regret adding it. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/31/2009, 01:53 PM	#12
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	well you're going to need an overflow and a return pump. __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

12/31/2009, 01:56 PM	#13
HulaDad Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dallas, NC Posts: 202	Seems like I need to pick up a new heater for the under tank fuge on my 34g Solana as well, never really thought much about one heater malfunctioning... Good tip.... __________________ 180g FOWLR with a few corals 34g Solana Reef 7.5g Reef w/DIY led's 400g FOWLR in the works