To Chill-er or not to Chill-er, that is the question

jdthomas24 · 01/09/2010, 02:26 AM

So who runs a chiller and who only runs fans to cool water. What is your lighting specs and outside temps during the summer months. How far are your lights off the water level and is your canopy closed or open. tank size etc etc..

I have a
150g DT
20g sump

2- 250 watt MH's
2- PC t-12 110watts

my chiller is down right now but i run a small fan over the water in the sump, it seems to help a lot 2-3 degrees but on the high speed ( kinda loud), i would like to get some quite fans for the canopy but honestly im not sure that it will help once summer gets here. Maybe it will help to kept the chiller form running as often, who knows....

Texas heat is pretty crazy and it can be up to 108 in some summer days. Thats not a dry heat either!!! like it matters if its dry or not at those temps... lol .....

terri_ann · 01/09/2010, 02:48 AM

I do not use a chiller. My canopy is closed and I have 2 Aqualight fans built in. I have 2 more fans waiting to be mounted on the other end. My MH are about 12" from the surface. I have used a fan in the sump/stand. When I begin to have heat issues, I run the AC and I too benefit ;-)

Flipper62 · 01/09/2010, 02:51 AM

One thing to remember..a chiller is a heat exchanger. Just like a AC unit for a home. As the Chiller is chilling the water...the heat has to go somewhere. The answer to that is...right back into the room.

Thats why a home AC unit is on the outside of the house.

I do run chillers on my tanks because here in the Chicago area the summers can get pretty hot and with a high humidity level....However, I still have to keep the room at a cool level. If you make the chiller work hard, you have a good chance of frying out the unit.

bassking16 · 01/09/2010, 02:55 AM

I'll tell you what, I was on the quest to cool my tank this past summer when I upgraded my lights to two 250 MH, with 4x54 watt T5HO's sitting on my 75g with a 20g sump. I live in Texas, and 100 degree days are the norm in the summer time.

So, I couldn't bring myself to spend alot of money on a chiller without at least trying some fans first. Man, I am glad I did. My tank would go down to about 78 degrees at night with nothing on except moonlights, but would climb to 85 degrees during the days with lights on.

I picked up two 4-fan units to mount to the top of my tank, and raised my lights to about 9 or 10 inches above the water, and the results were awesome. In fact, now that it has cooled off here in Texas, I had to stop running one of the fan units. With both fan units on, it would actually drop my tank temp too low. Like I said, at night my tank stays around 78 degrees, but with both fans on and my MH's on, the temp would actually drop down to 76 degrees during the day. So, during the winter I run one 4-fan unit, set on the same timer as my lights, and it keeps my tank right at 78 degrees 24/7

In my opinion, if you are trying to save a few bucks, try a fan unit first before dishing out the money for a chiller. You may be surprised with the results, and how much fatter your wallet stays.

$30 for a fan as opposed to $300 for a chiller. Pretty good savings IMO.

Best of luck to you,
Bassking

jdthomas24 · 01/09/2010, 03:02 AM

bassking, 300 for the chiller.. man i wish... JBJ 1/3 HP 750.00. my wife says. geeez Jason, always got to get something new. lol .... enlighten me, you have a linbk to those fans you are speaking of? i can not move my MH's up. they are mounted in a closed canopy, open back for vent. So the only thing i can do is mount fans or run a chiller. Are the fans very quite or silent?
i mean i would rather not hav to buy a new chiller but Texas heat sucks and i would lose a lot more if it overheated while i was gone.

Flipper62 · 01/09/2010, 03:03 AM

I agree.... I use the fans as long as possable before I kick in the chillers.

The one thing that a chiller has above using fans is....evaporation. When you use the fans, except a larger eveporation rate and adding much more top off water.

Flipper62 · 01/09/2010, 03:18 AM

You can use a clip-on fan like this one. I have a simular one....you cant really hear it.

Lightsluvr · 01/09/2010, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassking16

In my opinion, if you are trying to save a few bucks, try a fan unit first before dishing out the money for a chiller. You may be surprised with the results, and how much fatter your wallet stays.

$30 for a fan as opposed to $300 for a chiller. Pretty good savings IMO.

+1

I have a pair of Wal-Mart fans clipped onto my sump, blowing across the water surface. Evaporative cooling. When the water temp hits 78, my controller turns the fans on. Even in the hottest Oklahoma day, my temps never exceeded 81 last summer.

Raise the lights a few inches if you can, shorten the light cycle if temps get too high, all things work together for the good.

JME.

LL

captsluggo · 01/09/2010, 08:02 AM

Jdthomas24, this debate and the solutions are different for every location and tank setup. With MH and a canopy, even open back, it will be tough to impossible maintaining below 80 degree temps consistently with your climate using just fans.
What is often overlooked is the relative humidity. If RH is at 100%, evaporative cooling (surface agitation, overflows,sumps, fans, etc) will do exactly nothing. Of course the RH is rarely at 100%, but in the south it does stay high and this can be accompanied by high temps as well. Just when you need the most cooling is when evaporation is at it's lowest point and you get the lowest cooling effect from it.
Since most tank setups are indoors and have their equipment mounted in enclosed cabinetry, the RH will get higher than what the weather channel says it is.
A few degrees of temp swing is not likely to be disastrous if it happens slowly, but to consistently maintain a steady temp in a hot and damp climate, a chiller is how it's done.
Captsluggo

NirvanaFan · 01/09/2010, 08:36 AM

If you were only getting up to 85 degrees, then fans should work. You can buy very silent computer fans and run them to a DC power adapter. I have 4 in my canopy and can't hear them.

jdthomas24 · 01/09/2010, 02:47 PM

Nirvana, Where and what fans? i was looking at getting those to but do not want to order soem and then they come in and be loud. which ones do you have?

Sk8r · 01/09/2010, 03:51 PM

dry side of WA, summer up to 103, winter down to -15. Now we have central air, and keep it about 60 during the winter, about 72 during the summer. BUT when we were in an apartment with lousy airconditioning, winter would be about 65 and interior summer heat up to 75-78. We blew fans across the water. During a 6 hour powerout during summer, we floated ziplocks with ice.
A chiller for us is too much unless we want to keep Elliott Bay anemones... (icy cold).

jdthomas24 · 01/09/2010, 07:16 PM

HMM,,,,,fans? anyone one which ones that are ultra silent so i can order some?

theyammieguy · 01/09/2010, 07:37 PM

I'm also going to have this problem when I upgrade. I plan on clamping fans onto my sump.

NirvanaFan · 01/09/2010, 07:55 PM

I use 4 silenX 14dB fans from Newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-005-_-Product

I had an old computer power supply laying around also. You can jump 2 of the pins that would connect to the motherboard to provide constant power to the 12v 4 pin power plug. Is this tank in a place that needs to be exceptionally quiet (bedroom) or just somewhat quiet (living room)? Also note that not every computer fan manufacturer rates their fans with the same specifications. Stay around the 15dB level and you should be good.

Give me a bit and I should be able to find some pictures of them in my canopy.

NirvanaFan · 01/09/2010, 08:10 PM

Here are some pictures. I bought a fan controller to plug the fans into because I had no experience with them. I wasn't sure how long they are going to be. I used thermostat wire to extend the wires.

Fans on, with flash.

Fans on, no flash.

Lights off, no flash, controller.

Flash, fans off.

Let me know if you want some more pictures or any other explanations. Feel free to PM me if needed also.

Neogenocide · 01/09/2010, 08:16 PM

I would stay away from the 80 mm fans if possible. Jump up to the 120mm fans, run them below 12 volts, and they will be almost silent. If you watch on newegg, some units actually have decibel ratings on them.

Scott

NirvanaFan · 01/09/2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neogenocide

I would stay away from the 80 mm fans if possible. Jump up to the 120mm fans, run them below 12 volts, and they will be almost silent. If you watch on newegg, some units actually have decibel ratings on them.

Scott

120mm fans may be an option for you. I didn't have the room to accommodate them in my canopy though. Stay around the 15dB level and above 30CFM and you should be good. I'm a big fan of fan controllers. It is an easy way to control the fans speed so you can turn them down if it is keeping the water a bit cool.

jdthomas24 · 01/09/2010, 08:25 PM

Neo, Can you explain this a bit more? 12v fans with less than 12volts? i guess i could run a cell phone charger to one, so if i run it to two ofthem would it drop the voltage to 7.5? Funny thing is that im an electrician but never DC. Always AC...

Chasmike · 01/09/2010, 08:41 PM

But does not the chiller help eliminate the temp swing? Some corals do not like the slightest change.

NirvanaFan · 01/09/2010, 08:43 PM

You can run the fans at less than 12v. It will just make them spin slower. I'm pretty sure this is how a fan controller works (you spin a knob or flip a switch to change the voltage [or is it amps?]). You could run a cell phone charger, or buy a power adapter from wal-mart or similar store also.

I'm not great in DC either. I can wire up AC though.

NirvanaFan · 01/09/2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chasmike

But does not the chiller help eliminate the temp swing? Some corals do not like the slightest change.

What coral(s) are you speaking of. I haven't heard of any that can't take a few degree swing.

jdthomas24 · 01/10/2010, 02:13 AM

i tested a couple of fans today at 5volts and they were slow but silent.. i will test again tomorrow with 7.5 volts and up to 12 volts to see how much is makes a difference.still up in the air if i want to add a chiller or not.

bassking16 · 01/10/2010, 09:26 AM

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that since running my fans, my evaporation is even more noticable. In my tank, I have to top-off with about 1.5g per day. Sometimes a little more. Before the fans, it was only about 1/2 to 3/4 of a gallon per day.

I found the fans on Ebay. They were about $30 a piece. Money well spent as far as I am concerned. They are not exactly silent, but by no means are they annoying.

Here is a picture of what I bought. I use two on my 75g during the summer, and only one during the winter. I also use one of them on my 25g as well. I couldn't be more happy.

jdthomas24 · 01/10/2010, 11:58 AM

i seen those on ebay Bassking, i think they were made by Jebo... wasnt sure how loud they were though...

01/09/2010, 02:26 AM	#1
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	To Chill-er or not to Chill-er, that is the question So who runs a chiller and who only runs fans to cool water. What is your lighting specs and outside temps during the summer months. How far are your lights off the water level and is your canopy closed or open. tank size etc etc.. I have a 150g DT 20g sump 2- 250 watt MH's 2- PC t-12 110watts my chiller is down right now but i run a small fan over the water in the sump, it seems to help a lot 2-3 degrees but on the high speed ( kinda loud), i would like to get some quite fans for the canopy but honestly im not sure that it will help once summer gets here. Maybe it will help to kept the chiller form running as often, who knows.... Texas heat is pretty crazy and it can be up to 108 in some summer days. Thats not a dry heat either!!! like it matters if its dry or not at those temps... lol .....

01/09/2010, 02:48 AM	#2
terri_ann Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Marshalltown, IA Posts: 841	I do not use a chiller. My canopy is closed and I have 2 Aqualight fans built in. I have 2 more fans waiting to be mounted on the other end. My MH are about 12" from the surface. I have used a fan in the sump/stand. When I begin to have heat issues, I run the AC and I too benefit ;-) __________________ Happy Reefing!! :) Current Tank Info: 180g mixed 40B Anemone 5' raceway frag tank

01/09/2010, 02:51 AM	#3
Flipper62 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Naperville, Il. Business Owner, President & CEO Posts: 3,045	One thing to remember..a chiller is a heat exchanger. Just like a AC unit for a home. As the Chiller is chilling the water...the heat has to go somewhere. The answer to that is...right back into the room. Thats why a home AC unit is on the outside of the house. I do run chillers on my tanks because here in the Chicago area the summers can get pretty hot and with a high humidity level....However, I still have to keep the room at a cool level. If you make the chiller work hard, you have a good chance of frying out the unit. __________________ If todays automobile had followed the same development as the computer, A Rolls Royce would cost $100.00. It would get a million miles per gallon, but it would explode once a year killing everyone inside." Current Tanks... 90 gal Reef... My awesome Office BioCube....( 180 was on hold ..no time ) ... The 180 gal has been sold...Yay..yay..yay. Hobby Experience: 19 years Reef...22 years FW

01/09/2010, 02:55 AM	#4
bassking16 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 336	My Two Cents I'll tell you what, I was on the quest to cool my tank this past summer when I upgraded my lights to two 250 MH, with 4x54 watt T5HO's sitting on my 75g with a 20g sump. I live in Texas, and 100 degree days are the norm in the summer time. So, I couldn't bring myself to spend alot of money on a chiller without at least trying some fans first. Man, I am glad I did. My tank would go down to about 78 degrees at night with nothing on except moonlights, but would climb to 85 degrees during the days with lights on. I picked up two 4-fan units to mount to the top of my tank, and raised my lights to about 9 or 10 inches above the water, and the results were awesome. In fact, now that it has cooled off here in Texas, I had to stop running one of the fan units. With both fan units on, it would actually drop my tank temp too low. Like I said, at night my tank stays around 78 degrees, but with both fans on and my MH's on, the temp would actually drop down to 76 degrees during the day. So, during the winter I run one 4-fan unit, set on the same timer as my lights, and it keeps my tank right at 78 degrees 24/7 In my opinion, if you are trying to save a few bucks, try a fan unit first before dishing out the money for a chiller. You may be surprised with the results, and how much fatter your wallet stays. $30 for a fan as opposed to $300 for a chiller. Pretty good savings IMO. Best of luck to you, Bassking __________________ If you don't want to stand behind our troops, then feel free to stand in front of them! Current Tank Info: 150g SPS 55g Sump/Fuge/Frag Tank

01/09/2010, 03:03 AM	#6
Flipper62 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Naperville, Il. Business Owner, President & CEO Posts: 3,045	I agree.... I use the fans as long as possable before I kick in the chillers. The one thing that a chiller has above using fans is....evaporation. When you use the fans, except a larger eveporation rate and adding much more top off water. __________________ If todays automobile had followed the same development as the computer, A Rolls Royce would cost $100.00. It would get a million miles per gallon, but it would explode once a year killing everyone inside." Current Tanks... 90 gal Reef... My awesome Office BioCube....( 180 was on hold ..no time ) ... The 180 gal has been sold...Yay..yay..yay. Hobby Experience: 19 years Reef...22 years FW

01/09/2010, 03:02 AM	#5
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	bassking, 300 for the chiller.. man i wish... JBJ 1/3 HP 750.00. my wife says. geeez Jason, always got to get something new. lol .... enlighten me, you have a linbk to those fans you are speaking of? i can not move my MH's up. they are mounted in a closed canopy, open back for vent. So the only thing i can do is mount fans or run a chiller. Are the fans very quite or silent? i mean i would rather not hav to buy a new chiller but Texas heat sucks and i would lose a lot more if it overheated while i was gone.

01/09/2010, 03:18 AM	#7
Flipper62 Premium Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Naperville, Il. Business Owner, President & CEO Posts: 3,045	You can use a clip-on fan like this one. I have a simular one....you cant really hear it. __________________ If todays automobile had followed the same development as the computer, A Rolls Royce would cost $100.00. It would get a million miles per gallon, but it would explode once a year killing everyone inside." Current Tanks... 90 gal Reef... My awesome Office BioCube....( 180 was on hold ..no time ) ... The 180 gal has been sold...Yay..yay..yay. Hobby Experience: 19 years Reef...22 years FW

01/09/2010, 08:02 AM	#9
captsluggo Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 76	Jdthomas24, this debate and the solutions are different for every location and tank setup. With MH and a canopy, even open back, it will be tough to impossible maintaining below 80 degree temps consistently with your climate using just fans. What is often overlooked is the relative humidity. If RH is at 100%, evaporative cooling (surface agitation, overflows,sumps, fans, etc) will do exactly nothing. Of course the RH is rarely at 100%, but in the south it does stay high and this can be accompanied by high temps as well. Just when you need the most cooling is when evaporation is at it's lowest point and you get the lowest cooling effect from it. Since most tank setups are indoors and have their equipment mounted in enclosed cabinetry, the RH will get higher than what the weather channel says it is. A few degrees of temp swing is not likely to be disastrous if it happens slowly, but to consistently maintain a steady temp in a hot and damp climate, a chiller is how it's done. Captsluggo

01/09/2010, 08:36 AM	#10
NirvanaFan Reef Ninja Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,280	If you were only getting up to 85 degrees, then fans should work. You can buy very silent computer fans and run them to a DC power adapter. I have 4 in my canopy and can't hear them.

01/09/2010, 02:47 PM	#11
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	Nirvana, Where and what fans? i was looking at getting those to but do not want to order soem and then they come in and be loud. which ones do you have?

01/09/2010, 03:51 PM	#12
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	dry side of WA, summer up to 103, winter down to -15. Now we have central air, and keep it about 60 during the winter, about 72 during the summer. BUT when we were in an apartment with lousy airconditioning, winter would be about 65 and interior summer heat up to 75-78. We blew fans across the water. During a 6 hour powerout during summer, we floated ziplocks with ice. A chiller for us is too much unless we want to keep Elliott Bay anemones... (icy cold). __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

01/09/2010, 07:16 PM	#13
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	HMM,,,,,fans? anyone one which ones that are ultra silent so i can order some?

01/09/2010, 07:37 PM	#14
theyammieguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 1,691	I'm also going to have this problem when I upgrade. I plan on clamping fans onto my sump. __________________ "Ya'll can go to hell, I'm going to Texas". David Crockett. 12g JBJ deluxe JBJ viper 70w, maxi jet 900, Koralia nano, two false percs, softies, LPS, and SPS, about 25# LR and 2"-3" SB. Running since 3/22/07. Soon to add sump with skimmer Click my home page for pictures. 40g breeder upgrade in progress. Planning a 60g cube FOWLR.

01/09/2010, 07:55 PM	#15
NirvanaFan Reef Ninja Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,280	I use 4 silenX 14dB fans from Newegg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-005-_-Product I had an old computer power supply laying around also. You can jump 2 of the pins that would connect to the motherboard to provide constant power to the 12v 4 pin power plug. Is this tank in a place that needs to be exceptionally quiet (bedroom) or just somewhat quiet (living room)? Also note that not every computer fan manufacturer rates their fans with the same specifications. Stay around the 15dB level and you should be good. Give me a bit and I should be able to find some pictures of them in my canopy.

01/09/2010, 08:10 PM	#16
NirvanaFan Reef Ninja Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,280	Here are some pictures. I bought a fan controller to plug the fans into because I had no experience with them. I wasn't sure how long they are going to be. I used thermostat wire to extend the wires. Fans on, with flash. Fans on, no flash. Lights off, no flash, controller. Flash, fans off. Let me know if you want some more pictures or any other explanations. Feel free to PM me if needed also.

01/09/2010, 08:16 PM	#17
Neogenocide Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Findlay, OH Posts: 851	I would stay away from the 80 mm fans if possible. Jump up to the 120mm fans, run them below 12 volts, and they will be almost silent. If you watch on newegg, some units actually have decibel ratings on them. Scott

01/09/2010, 08:25 PM	#19
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	Neo, Can you explain this a bit more? 12v fans with less than 12volts? i guess i could run a cell phone charger to one, so if i run it to two ofthem would it drop the voltage to 7.5? Funny thing is that im an electrician but never DC. Always AC...

01/09/2010, 08:41 PM	#20
Chasmike Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ladson, SC Posts: 30	But does not the chiller help eliminate the temp swing? Some corals do not like the slightest change.

01/09/2010, 08:43 PM	#21
NirvanaFan Reef Ninja Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,280	You can run the fans at less than 12v. It will just make them spin slower. I'm pretty sure this is how a fan controller works (you spin a knob or flip a switch to change the voltage [or is it amps?]). You could run a cell phone charger, or buy a power adapter from wal-mart or similar store also. I'm not great in DC either. I can wire up AC though.

01/10/2010, 02:13 AM	#23
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	i tested a couple of fans today at 5volts and they were slow but silent.. i will test again tomorrow with 7.5 volts and up to 12 volts to see how much is makes a difference.still up in the air if i want to add a chiller or not.

01/10/2010, 11:58 AM	#25
jdthomas24 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Rockwall, Texas Posts: 852	i seen those on ebay Bassking, i think they were made by Jebo... wasnt sure how loud they were though...