Using LYE to nuke the Aiptaisa

triggerfish2 · 01/12/2010, 08:14 AM

been trying all ways and means to nuke these pests but somehow, they just come back!

read online that using caustic soda or lye to nuke it seems another alternative.

am just wondering, should i purchase those sodium hydroxide pellets, mix with some water (since they are soluble in water), will they have the same impact as those from DRANO (already pre-mixed)?

any side effects on a reef tank? thanks

zachfishman · 01/12/2010, 08:35 AM

Much better off making a small amount of kalkwasser paste, since it's a product designed to be used in reef aquaria. Be careful about how much you use though, too much and your pH could spike. How big is your tank?

Playa-1 · 01/12/2010, 08:42 AM

Probably a bad idea.

Sugar Magnolia · 01/12/2010, 08:45 AM

You say you have tried "all ways". What have you tried so far? I wouldn't definitely not put lye into my reef tank. Can you link us to where you read that?

HumanIMDB · 01/12/2010, 08:48 AM

I just read a post referring to an old ReefKeeping article saying that Sodium Hydroxide (Drano) works better than Calcium Hydroxide (Kalk)...I currently have Red Sea Aiptasia-X locked and loaded for my own personal battle against the dreaded glass anemones. I'm also backing that up with half a dozen or so peppermint shrimps to clean up what is left behind/I can't get to with a syringe.

zachfishman · 01/12/2010, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HumanIMDB

I just read a post referring to an old ReefKeeping article saying that Sodium Hydroxide (Drano) works better than Calcium Hydroxide (Kalk)...I currently have Red Sea Aiptasia-X locked and loaded for my own personal battle against the dreaded glass anemones. I'm also backing that up with half a dozen or so peppermint shrimps to clean up what is left behind/I can't get to with a syringe.

I like that method, has really worked for me in the past. I'd nuke larger Aiptasia with kalk paste, and let the shrimps take care of the babies I couldn't see/reach.

Chris27 · 01/12/2010, 09:16 AM

Aiptasia X and a couple of real peppermints (not camels) has worked well for me. Every couple of months I may have one show up, a quick shot of X and all is better.

Eric the half-bee · 01/12/2010, 09:19 AM

I too am fighting these vermin currently. Ive used apstasia-X, joe's juice, kalk and last night, boiling distilled white vinegar. I'm curious if it matters in applying these products. Often, I can't inject into the pest but very closely, spray said toxin onto/into them. Any opines on application?

drillsar · 01/12/2010, 09:22 AM

did you try nudibranchs? I'm trying them now

sedor · 01/12/2010, 09:26 AM

Nudibranchs are supposed to be 100% effective because aiptasia is its only food source. In other words they don't eat anything else. Right now I am trying a Copperbanded Butterfly and he hasn't quite taken to the tastiness of the aiptasia yet.

As far as Lye goes, with all the products and solutions available I think its unnecessary to risk it.

caad3 · 01/12/2010, 09:33 AM

I use kalk paste and it works great, just a pain in that it each one has to be injected... I bought a copperband to do the trick, and bastard hasn't even touched one...

drillsar · 01/12/2010, 09:37 AM

I tried before these methods:
Aiptasia-X worked but they would come back and stronger perhaps
Boiling water -- Sometimes worked but came back
Peppermint shrimp was working somewhat but it died
Kalk worked but more came back

The thing is with Aiptasia is once scarred it will retreat in it's hole and release baby's in the water, also you have to make sure you get all of them which is hard because they can hide in cracks, etc and thats the main problem. peppermint shrimp sometimes work but thing is I beleive they shred them so basically there will still be aiptasia but controlled, Berghia Nudibranchs sneak up and eat the foot and all of aiptasia and there gone for good, only problem is once gone they will starve, I was told by LFS once there starving they will float to top of water.

Options for us for what I read:
Try natural (Peppermint, berghia nudis)
Acid bath of rock
Throw rock out and start over, if you dont have much rock maybe best solution

spleify · 01/12/2010, 09:42 AM

The easiest, quickest, cheapest and safest way I have found is boiling Vinegar. Draw it up in a syringe with a needle, and inject it into the aiptasia. They disolve almost instantly if injected INTO the pest. Best thing is, they will never return from that spot again.

tspors · 01/12/2010, 12:21 PM

Iv'e posted this before if you want a safe and sure fire destruction of Aps.

I had an 80g that had some Apstasia that started to take over. Not an issue because I was bringing the tank down to install hardwood floor and replace with a 150g. I tried various options to kill the little buggers with not much success. I know everyone deals with these guys and they are quit normal just not wanted. Anyway, my wife found one the other day. I found a post from 2004

2004 Post:
OK, here is my sure fire way, 100% success rate, never to return again method.

Use a saturated solution of Sodium Hydroxide (Drain Away, Draino, whatever you like to call it) and water. Using a syringe, squirt about 0.5 mL into the mouth of each aiptasia. This will kill even the stubborn foot tissue.

I initially used kalk paste like pies, by found that the success rate wasn't that great. Sodium Hydroxide is much more soluble than Calcium Hydroxide, and is more alkaline, completely nuking the aiptasia.

Again don't dose too much at one time. It is not harmful to your reef, unless you directly squirt it onto corals. Just a warning that Sodium Hydroxide will cause sever chemical burns if handled, you can tell if you have it on your hands 'cause they will feel "soapy" and slippery. If you feel your hands becoming slippery, wash with a LOT of cold water. Preferably wear gloves when handling.

As dangerous as the chemical sounds, it is really quite safe for your reef.

Draino is surprisingly pure sodium hydroxide, and is really no more dangerous to your tank than calcium hydroxide (kalk). Any tank with a reasonable alkalinity (greater than 2.6) should have no problems adding it. The hydroxide ion reacts relativly quickly with dissolved carbon dioxide producing, there are also other mechanisms for the neutralisation of the free hydroxide. Which reaction is most significant is determined by the pH.

2(OH)- + 2CO2 ---> H20 + 2(CO3)2-

The only difference between this and the kalk method is the spectator ion (Ca2+ as opposed to Na+).
Kalk will do the same thing to your hand as sodium hydroxide, at a much much slower rate.

If anything this method is easier on the fish, I had problems with fish eating, or trying to eat the white kalk paste. I for one wouldn't like a mouth full of kalk. The sodium hydroxide method is much safer in that it is completely soluble, such that any solution which doesn't make it into the aiptasia, is quikly netralised by surrounding water by the above reaction, and no solid remains to be eaten by fish.

triggerfish2 · 01/12/2010, 08:37 PM

I have tried the following methods:-

(1) peppermint shrimps - they would remove only to a certain extent, usually they leave the large ones alone, hence ineffective afterall, not to mention all those peppermint that i bought were feeding the aiptasia

(2) tried Red Sea aiptasia X, Joe's juice, Kalk paste - worked only to a certain exent, will come back after a short while.

(3) using boiling or fire would be my last resort

(4) mine is a reef tank, hence, copperband is out too.

so, is it ok for me to mix water to those sodium hydroxide pellets? please advise. thanks

triggerfish2 · 01/12/2010, 10:19 PM

Using of LYE for aiptasia removal http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/b...a_control.html

bertoni · 01/12/2010, 11:33 PM

Sodium hydroxide will work, IME. I'd be very careful mixing it up. Add a little bit of lye at a time to the water, and use gloves. It will become hot. Boiling or splashing is bad, and the solution is going to be hard on any part of your body.

Jstdv8 · 01/13/2010, 03:59 AM

Ive killed over 300 on 100 lbs of live rock i got for cheap beacsue it was loaded with the stuff. You don't need to spend the money on the kalkwasser or aiptasia-x. Mrs Wages pickling lime is the same stuff and its 4 bucks for a lifetime supply. mix it to a paste, turn off your powerheads, inject through a syringe over the entire face of the pest. wait 45 minutes and suck the pest adn the paste out with a turkey baster.
this will eliminate the aiptasias ability to reproduce when dying as the oral disc is covered with paste and cant release its seed. and you suck it out of the hole removing it completely so it cant fall apart only to come back in the same spot or someplace else.
Like I said, ive treated over 300 over a period of 5 weeks. When i was done I waited with great results for another 4 weeks and have only had 2 in the entire time come back and i killed them the same way. aiptasia free now

Lightsluvr · 01/13/2010, 06:56 AM

If you've got a few aiptasia that are accessible, the chemical treatments are satisfactory.

If you have an infestation, or aips in places where you can't reach (like behind LR, in caves, on tank walls, in overflows), there is only only one sure cure.

Two words:

Berghia nudibranchs.

They won't come back. Ever. Period.

JME

LL

drillsar · 01/13/2010, 06:58 AM

since where on Berghia, how long before you see results? I put them in my tank 2 days ago on upper rock like I was told and I havent seen them since, lol

sedor · 01/13/2010, 07:12 AM

I'm willing to bet you will just slowly start to see the aiptasia population dying off. You might get lucky and find one munching away one day. In the mean time if you miss your little guys this video might ease the pain

http://www.saltyunderground.com/prod...roducts_id=248
Great place to buy the little critters as well.

01/12/2010, 08:14 AM	#1
triggerfish2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 29	Using LYE to nuke the Aiptaisa been trying all ways and means to nuke these pests but somehow, they just come back! read online that using caustic soda or lye to nuke it seems another alternative. am just wondering, should i purchase those sodium hydroxide pellets, mix with some water (since they are soluble in water), will they have the same impact as those from DRANO (already pre-mixed)? any side effects on a reef tank? thanks

01/12/2010, 08:35 AM	#2
zachfishman Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St Petersburg, FL Posts: 3,577	Much better off making a small amount of kalkwasser paste, since it's a product designed to be used in reef aquaria. Be careful about how much you use though, too much and your pH could spike. How big is your tank? __________________ Patience is a reefer's best tool. Secret Xenia lover. M.S. Marine Biology Staff - Marine Discovery Center, St. Petersburg FL Tampa Bay Reef Club BOD 2018 Current Tank Info: 34g modded Solana

01/12/2010, 08:45 AM	#4
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	You say you have tried "all ways". What have you tried so far? I wouldn't definitely not put lye into my reef tank. Can you link us to where you read that? __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.

01/12/2010, 08:48 AM	#5
HumanIMDB Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 1,556	I just read a post referring to an old ReefKeeping article saying that Sodium Hydroxide (Drano) works better than Calcium Hydroxide (Kalk)...I currently have Red Sea Aiptasia-X locked and loaded for my own personal battle against the dreaded glass anemones. I'm also backing that up with half a dozen or so peppermint shrimps to clean up what is left behind/I can't get to with a syringe. __________________ Chris Rivers Will do computer support for frags. :) Click on the Red House to see our AGA92 Corner Reef Tank Build thread. Current Tank Info: 10 Gal (Aqualight 96W Quad 50/50, AquaClear Power Filter 70 with Chaeto lit by 6500K Bulb, AquaClear Power Head 20, 50w Tronic Heater), 92 Gal All-Glass Corner (Cycling)

01/12/2010, 09:19 AM	#8
Eric the half-bee Passer of gasses Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Space Coast, FL Posts: 837	I too am fighting these vermin currently. Ive used apstasia-X, joe's juice, kalk and last night, boiling distilled white vinegar. I'm curious if it matters in applying these products. Often, I can't inject into the pest but very closely, spray said toxin onto/into them. Any opines on application? __________________ MOLON LABE - King Leonidas I A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have. – Barry Goldwater Current Tank Info: Semi agressive reef-400 gal.-8 tangs,2 rabbit fish,zebra moray,blue ribbon eel,Janss' pipe,pair bangaiis,wrasse,tomato clown,maroon clown

01/12/2010, 08:42 AM	#3
Playa-1 Moved On Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Laguna Niguel, CA Posts: 7,497	Probably a bad idea.

01/12/2010, 09:16 AM	#7
Chris27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 4,452	Aiptasia X and a couple of real peppermints (not camels) has worked well for me. Every couple of months I may have one show up, a quick shot of X and all is better.

01/12/2010, 09:22 AM	#9
drillsar Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West Orange, NJ Posts: 2,838	did you try nudibranchs? I'm trying them now

01/12/2010, 09:26 AM	#10
sedor Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 4,689	Nudibranchs are supposed to be 100% effective because aiptasia is its only food source. In other words they don't eat anything else. Right now I am trying a Copperbanded Butterfly and he hasn't quite taken to the tastiness of the aiptasia yet. As far as Lye goes, with all the products and solutions available I think its unnecessary to risk it. __________________ Ryan

01/12/2010, 09:33 AM	#11
caad3 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 66	I use kalk paste and it works great, just a pain in that it each one has to be injected... I bought a copperband to do the trick, and bastard hasn't even touched one...

01/12/2010, 09:37 AM	#12
drillsar Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West Orange, NJ Posts: 2,838	I tried before these methods: Aiptasia-X worked but they would come back and stronger perhaps Boiling water -- Sometimes worked but came back Peppermint shrimp was working somewhat but it died Kalk worked but more came back The thing is with Aiptasia is once scarred it will retreat in it's hole and release baby's in the water, also you have to make sure you get all of them which is hard because they can hide in cracks, etc and thats the main problem. peppermint shrimp sometimes work but thing is I beleive they shred them so basically there will still be aiptasia but controlled, Berghia Nudibranchs sneak up and eat the foot and all of aiptasia and there gone for good, only problem is once gone they will starve, I was told by LFS once there starving they will float to top of water. Options for us for what I read: Try natural (Peppermint, berghia nudis) Acid bath of rock Throw rock out and start over, if you dont have much rock maybe best solution

01/12/2010, 09:42 AM	#13
spleify Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 9,579	The easiest, quickest, cheapest and safest way I have found is boiling Vinegar. Draw it up in a syringe with a needle, and inject it into the aiptasia. They disolve almost instantly if injected INTO the pest. Best thing is, they will never return from that spot again. __________________ Make it a Great Day!!!! Current Tank Info: 60 gal SPS cube, with 25 gal refugium, 400W MH, DIY Lumenarc III, DIY skimmer, DIY stand and canopy. 40 breeder LPS with 40 gallon sump, DIY stand, 250W MH

01/12/2010, 12:21 PM	#14
tspors Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Appleton, WI. USA Posts: 774	Iv'e posted this before if you want a safe and sure fire destruction of Aps. I had an 80g that had some Apstasia that started to take over. Not an issue because I was bringing the tank down to install hardwood floor and replace with a 150g. I tried various options to kill the little buggers with not much success. I know everyone deals with these guys and they are quit normal just not wanted. Anyway, my wife found one the other day. I found a post from 2004 2004 Post: OK, here is my sure fire way, 100% success rate, never to return again method. Use a saturated solution of Sodium Hydroxide (Drain Away, Draino, whatever you like to call it) and water. Using a syringe, squirt about 0.5 mL into the mouth of each aiptasia. This will kill even the stubborn foot tissue. I initially used kalk paste like pies, by found that the success rate wasn't that great. Sodium Hydroxide is much more soluble than Calcium Hydroxide, and is more alkaline, completely nuking the aiptasia. Again don't dose too much at one time. It is not harmful to your reef, unless you directly squirt it onto corals. Just a warning that Sodium Hydroxide will cause sever chemical burns if handled, you can tell if you have it on your hands 'cause they will feel "soapy" and slippery. If you feel your hands becoming slippery, wash with a LOT of cold water. Preferably wear gloves when handling. As dangerous as the chemical sounds, it is really quite safe for your reef. Draino is surprisingly pure sodium hydroxide, and is really no more dangerous to your tank than calcium hydroxide (kalk). Any tank with a reasonable alkalinity (greater than 2.6) should have no problems adding it. The hydroxide ion reacts relativly quickly with dissolved carbon dioxide producing, there are also other mechanisms for the neutralisation of the free hydroxide. Which reaction is most significant is determined by the pH. 2(OH)- + 2CO2 ---> H20 + 2(CO3)2- The only difference between this and the kalk method is the spectator ion (Ca2+ as opposed to Na+). Kalk will do the same thing to your hand as sodium hydroxide, at a much much slower rate. If anything this method is easier on the fish, I had problems with fish eating, or trying to eat the white kalk paste. I for one wouldn't like a mouth full of kalk. The sodium hydroxide method is much safer in that it is completely soluble, such that any solution which doesn't make it into the aiptasia, is quikly netralised by surrounding water by the above reaction, and no solid remains to be eaten by fish. __________________ Everything is Good with Moderation. Current Tank Info: 150 Gal Oceanic, 30g Sump, Gen-X PCX-150 2250 gph, Red Sea Clasic Turbo Skimmer, 18w Turbo Twist UV, Ocean Clear Filter w/live rock, Several Buckets,

01/12/2010, 08:37 PM	#15
triggerfish2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 29	I have tried the following methods:- (1) peppermint shrimps - they would remove only to a certain extent, usually they leave the large ones alone, hence ineffective afterall, not to mention all those peppermint that i bought were feeding the aiptasia (2) tried Red Sea aiptasia X, Joe's juice, Kalk paste - worked only to a certain exent, will come back after a short while. (3) using boiling or fire would be my last resort (4) mine is a reef tank, hence, copperband is out too. so, is it ok for me to mix water to those sodium hydroxide pellets? please advise. thanks

01/12/2010, 10:19 PM	#16
triggerfish2 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 29	Using of LYE for aiptasia removal http://www.reefscapes.net/articles/b...a_control.html

01/12/2010, 11:33 PM	#17
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Sodium hydroxide will work, IME. I'd be very careful mixing it up. Add a little bit of lye at a time to the water, and use gloves. It will become hot. Boiling or splashing is bad, and the solution is going to be hard on any part of your body. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

01/13/2010, 03:59 AM	#18
Jstdv8 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wasilla, Alaska Posts: 1,420	Ive killed over 300 on 100 lbs of live rock i got for cheap beacsue it was loaded with the stuff. You don't need to spend the money on the kalkwasser or aiptasia-x. Mrs Wages pickling lime is the same stuff and its 4 bucks for a lifetime supply. mix it to a paste, turn off your powerheads, inject through a syringe over the entire face of the pest. wait 45 minutes and suck the pest adn the paste out with a turkey baster. this will eliminate the aiptasias ability to reproduce when dying as the oral disc is covered with paste and cant release its seed. and you suck it out of the hole removing it completely so it cant fall apart only to come back in the same spot or someplace else. Like I said, ive treated over 300 over a period of 5 weeks. When i was done I waited with great results for another 4 weeks and have only had 2 in the entire time come back and i killed them the same way. aiptasia free now

01/13/2010, 06:56 AM	#19
Lightsluvr Tangaroa to 500 gallons Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 5,855	If you've got a few aiptasia that are accessible, the chemical treatments are satisfactory. If you have an infestation, or aips in places where you can't reach (like behind LR, in caves, on tank walls, in overflows), there is only only one sure cure. Two words: Berghia nudibranchs. They won't come back. Ever. Period. JME LL __________________ Click on my username and select "Lightsluvr's Home Page" for a recap of our build thread - AGE Hybrid Tank in a 500G system with dedicated fish room. (Takes a few minutes for photos to load) Leave a note if you stop by... Current Tank Info: 350G AGE Hybrid reef tank. 500G+ total water volume. Three sumps for filtration. Barracuda Gold return and Hammerhead Gold closed loop pumps. DIY T5 light system on rails. MP40W x3 to supplement closed loop. 130G Water management system.

01/13/2010, 06:58 AM	#20
drillsar Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: West Orange, NJ Posts: 2,838	since where on Berghia, how long before you see results? I put them in my tank 2 days ago on upper rock like I was told and I havent seen them since, lol

01/13/2010, 07:12 AM	#21
sedor Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 4,689	I'm willing to bet you will just slowly start to see the aiptasia population dying off. You might get lucky and find one munching away one day. In the mean time if you miss your little guys this video might ease the pain http://www.saltyunderground.com/prod...roducts_id=248 Great place to buy the little critters as well. __________________ Ryan