starphire tank crack . stop laminated glass crack HELP

Chicago · 01/12/2010, 07:45 PM

my seven year old starphire tank now has a crack. edge crack meaning it is coming from the top and down. at center of viewing area. just showed up out of blue. the front is two panes of starphire glass laminated together. made by inter america ..which is now bow valley. anyone hear from them laterly.

so. here is question. who has number for good glass guy in chicago that can tell me what i already think. the crack cannot be felt inside or outside of the tank which means it is running on inside of the laminated sides. i assume in time the width of the crack will eventually split farther so that it hits the inside of the tank or outside depending on which pane of glass is running the crack..

i am wondering if those windshield repair guys would help... would additional bracing help? i have bracing on center and two off center for total of three and rim bracing all the way around. tank length is 8 feet with 30 inches high and about 30 deep.. it is framed into the house and have large sump in basment mechnical room ect.

this will probably be enough to through me out of the hobby or into a smaller tank. 300 or less.

let me know your thoughts and i would like info to contact some local glass tank builders..

any help is greatly appreciated

theyammieguy · 01/12/2010, 07:47 PM

No, the windshield guys can't help.

stugray · 01/12/2010, 07:52 PM

Find a way to drain as much as you can tolerate immediately to relieve the pressure while you start looking for another tank.

My guess is "my seven year old starphire tank".... you installed it in a new house and the foundation has settled?

Sorry to hear

Stu

Chicago · 01/12/2010, 08:19 PM

could drain down about 5 inches...would have to turn off one side of tank pumps and let other side pump in.. in other words over flow would no longer be in use.

dont think it is foundation issue.. this thing is built over two ibeams. three feet apart with doubled up tgi's.. i do constuction so while i have the man power to get this thing corrected it is one of those.. do i really want to go through it.. rip out the framing around the tank..tank down tank remove and replace.. not to mention cost...

right now if that is the way to go i think i will go back with acrylic..but i really hate them for cleaning the magnet with the razor blade from magnovore really made the tank enjoyable.. no more bicep work outs..

thanks.

theyammieguy · 01/12/2010, 08:22 PM

I think your only option is to break the tank down. I'm wondering if the laminate split somehow and it's not an actual crack in the glass.

coralnut99 · 01/12/2010, 08:30 PM

I know it's darn easy for me to say, but at least you have time to deal with it, and it didn't just blow out. I've had my share of disasters, the last one brought me to tears. This hobby is not for the faint of heart or the easily discouraged. This story is enough to make me scratch starphire glass off my list.

Bracing on a top-down crack is REALLY tough to accomplish. As a temporary fix you might try two pieces of 3/4" plywood on each side of the tank, and clamp them together with deep-thoated clamps at the top and bottom. Hopefully that makes sense. The idea is to apply pressure on a rigid plane covering as much of the crack as possible. The amount of clamping pressure needed here is actually minimal, as all you're trying to do is avert a blow-out. Hopefully, Uncleof6 will chime in here with some thoughts or suggestions. Best of luck.

Chicago · 01/12/2010, 08:48 PM

need some more suggestions.. all i can think of is to some how get some sealant into the top under the plcastic rim around the tank. maybe some water or something got under there and worked into a micro crack and got it going..anyone thing that doing a brace from one side to the other on the lenghtin front of tank will help..in other words i have a 6 inch piece of glass 96 long that will run on top off the permiter to strenthen or should i do another brace from back to front.

Chicago · 01/12/2010, 08:54 PM

i have been away from this forum for about a year. who are the large tank guys here that i can pm.... another question.. if i some how get the water level down six inches would that really help.. and if so any ideas on how to make the tank look nice.. mangroves.hermits on the rocks which would be exposed.. just think if i didnt have the sps crash of 2008 how nuts i would be.. yep lost all sps back in early 2008 and kept fish only with live rock and some monti's here and there.. but have nice regal, black tang, banded angel ect.. i guess the 300 horse troff sump will be nice look down tank in the basment mechanical..

Zestay · 01/12/2010, 09:26 PM

your gonna have to get a new tank . or at least a new pane of glass.

Chicago · 01/12/2010, 09:45 PM

i do think there is also some type of splitting in the laminate. its wierd i can lookup and see reflection and also like splintering but like tiny tiny ripples ..if i had a better camera i could post a pic.. now here is another thought and maybe i can get some help here.. can i have the front panes..the laminate front glass replaced on site... in other words can we rebuild on site.. option?//

thanks again all

Chicago · 01/12/2010, 09:55 PM

by the way.. what is the average price for a acrylic tank..about 96 by 31 by 31...

and

how much harder to clean than glass. any new advance cleaning tools for acrlyic in the past few years..or still a pain.. ??

NanoReefWanabe · 01/12/2010, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago

by the way.. what is the average price for a acrylic tank..about 96 by 31 by 31...

and

how much harder to clean than glass. any new advance cleaning tools for acrlyic in the past few years..or still a pain.. ??

there is a guy selling a 96 x31x 30 glass tank in my local area...only a 9 hour or so drive...

as for fixing on site....yes it is entirely possible...i helped my buddy assemble his 96 x36 x30..on a tank this big the 6" euro brace you are talking about adding would have to go the entire perimeter of the top of the tank and likely need to be 3/4" glass too...on top of having the 2 or 3 cross braces...this would of course involve stocking everything you have in your sump etc...a tonne of scraping and cleaning...and a couple burly fella's to lift the new piece of glass into place...

Chicago · 01/12/2010, 10:17 PM

tank currently has three cross braces which are 9 inches wide. tank then has two inch perimeter bracing inbetween these. i have 6 inch pieces of starphire glass that i can run..silicone on top of the existing bracing..so i would be overlapping what is there now. ...but would this do anything to stop the problem...i believe there will still be pressure pusing against the middle of the tank..right... i guess i will watch closely over next week and see if it is growing..only one pane of glass has issue..so i think there will be time to see what happens...

hebygb · 01/12/2010, 11:27 PM

Sorry to hear about your tank. I have to agree with the previous replies, as well as I think you know... you will have to replace the tank. Replacing the front panel will mean a complete teardown and dismantling of the tank anyway.

As for acrylic, it is not my intent to raise that long winded acrylic vs glass thread... I am a huge fan of acrylic and all three of my tanks and sumps are acrylic. Do they scratch ... sure... can you avoid it... Of course.... can they be repaired... YES... to me its a no brainer. I would look around... there was a large acrylic here a couple of weeks ago that may still be available... maybe in IA... also I think Minneapolis.

Best of luck... let me know if you need any help on the teardown.

Chicago · 01/13/2010, 08:35 AM

do we have the name and contact info for a glass tank builder.///??

hebygb · 01/13/2010, 11:16 AM

Glass Cages? Probably there are more custom shops out there.

There is a tank here in Mission Kansas at a LFS that is brand new and sitting empty. I honestly cant recall if it is glass or acrylic, but it has been sitting empty for over a year. It may be more like 800 gallons... Mission Pets is the store. They also make tanks, sumps, filtration... been in business for 30 some years.

There are two large acrylic tanks on the sale thread... one has been for sale for well over a year now... it is the better of the two on the front page.

hoffy02 · 01/13/2010, 11:29 AM

If the tank is cracking in the middle and from top to bottom it would mean one or both of the ends has dropped, or center is rising. If this is the only side, then I would guess that the crack was already there and is just now being exposed or opened by the settling. Have you checked for level? Use a bullet type small level so you can check in small spots to see if one side is pulling down...

Chicago · 01/13/2010, 01:10 PM

will do the level check.. the stand for the tank is serious.. 4 x4 ...cross brace ect. with two sheets of 1 inch plywood on top.. yep only spot. crack is in front center area. runs from the top down starts traight down for about 3/4 of inch then starts to angle at 45 degree. does look a littel different like some laminat issues. break out the level tonight..

will droping down the water level couple of inches do anything.

Chicago · 01/13/2010, 01:46 PM

Registered Member

Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: earth
Posts: 1,922

ok.. got a hold of mitch.. was very nice over the phone...actually talked about a lot.. he asked me to send him some pics.. says the tank is strong and laminated fronts are quite strong.. something i knew before. his thought was that this might not be crack but maybe something with laminate.. he thought it was strange that the crack if that is what it is cannot be felt on either side.. in other words can glass crack which has crack only on helf the diameter of the glass. in other words .. glas sis 5/8 thick and crack is 1/8 thick and runs two inches long.??

ycrazyy · 01/13/2010, 02:02 PM

It's very possible for a crack in glass, especially laminated glass, to not be felt at all (even with a fingernail). There is a possibility of the laminate separating, and that depends on how they laminated it (press on, oven method, etc.). However, laminated glass is NOT stronger than a solid piece of glass. The difference is that laminated will stay in one piece whereas if this were a solid piece and you had the crack, it would most likely have split already.

Either way, if the laminate is coming apart or the glass is cracked I think your only option (i.e. safest, smartest) would be to replace the tank. There is clearly a flaw and at some point the tank will fail.

uncleof6 · 01/13/2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicago

will do the level check.. the stand for the tank is serious.. 4 x4 ...cross brace ect. with two sheets of 1 inch plywood on top.. yep only spot. crack is in front center area. runs from the top down starts traight down for about 3/4 of inch then starts to angle at 45 degree. does look a littel different like some laminat issues. break out the level tonight..

will droping down the water level couple of inches do anything.

4 x 4s are not good stand supports, they are dimensionally unsound. (They twist, warp, bow, split) The worst that can be used. Doubled 2 x 4s is a much better solution.

I don't use laminated glass, probably just me, but I don't trust it. Lowering the water level, will reduce the pressure at the bottom of the tank significantly, but to a lesser extent towards the top of the tank. Dropping the water level below the "anomaly," would relieve some pressure from it.

I have never seen glass crack "partially" through the thickness. If it cracks, it will go all the way through. Like I said, I don't mess with laminated glass, but I see this as a stress issue-- something moved, that should not have. Or, a defect during manufacture that is just now showing up. Just guessing.

FWIW,

Jim

Chicago · 01/13/2010, 02:10 PM

ok.. so here is what i need to do.. let me get some pics and post them. there is absolutly no feeling of a crack on the outside or the inside of the tank.. i can run my finger across it and feel nothing. . also when looking at it with a black pad behind it it does not touch the black pad. nor does it touch the black pad if i put it up against the front pane. maybe water worked into the laminate. maybe splittling. hard to say.. cant look down the top of glass as it has a black rim around the tank siliconed in place.

ycrazyy · 01/13/2010, 03:19 PM

Please post a pic, but as I said, we cut laminated glass everyday and rarely can you actually feel the break in the glass until we go to cut the actual interlayer. When laminated glass comes apart (as opposed to breaking) the interlayer tends to show more bubbles than lines (however I have not seen this on a tank before, so the pressure may have a different effect on it).

hoffy02 · 01/13/2010, 03:40 PM

im tagging just cause this sounds so weird... I have never heard of glass only cracking half way through??? Which is why i wouldnt believe it to be a crack.. Maybe delamination but I wouldnt believe it to do so in a linear way as you describe... I am a mechanical integrity inspector so cracks and discontinuities are my life... but this is just weird....please update with what ever comes of this

James79 · 01/13/2010, 06:10 PM

In my experience broken lami under stress will immediately crack out until the stress is relieved, your crack is growing very slowly so I don't think the problem is bracing. Most likely a small crack was covered up with edge trim and over time small stresses or temp changes have caused it to run out. Maybe the windshield repair method can stop it from growing any longer.

How thick are the panes?

01/12/2010, 07:45 PM	#1
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	starphire tank crack . stop laminated glass crack HELP my seven year old starphire tank now has a crack. edge crack meaning it is coming from the top and down. at center of viewing area. just showed up out of blue. the front is two panes of starphire glass laminated together. made by inter america ..which is now bow valley. anyone hear from them laterly. so. here is question. who has number for good glass guy in chicago that can tell me what i already think. the crack cannot be felt inside or outside of the tank which means it is running on inside of the laminated sides. i assume in time the width of the crack will eventually split farther so that it hits the inside of the tank or outside depending on which pane of glass is running the crack.. i am wondering if those windshield repair guys would help... would additional bracing help? i have bracing on center and two off center for total of three and rim bracing all the way around. tank length is 8 feet with 30 inches high and about 30 deep.. it is framed into the house and have large sump in basment mechnical room ect. this will probably be enough to through me out of the hobby or into a smaller tank. 300 or less. let me know your thoughts and i would like info to contact some local glass tank builders.. any help is greatly appreciated __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/12/2010, 07:47 PM	#2
theyammieguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 1,691	No, the windshield guys can't help. __________________ "Ya'll can go to hell, I'm going to Texas". David Crockett. 12g JBJ deluxe JBJ viper 70w, maxi jet 900, Koralia nano, two false percs, softies, LPS, and SPS, about 25# LR and 2"-3" SB. Running since 3/22/07. Soon to add sump with skimmer Click my home page for pictures. 40g breeder upgrade in progress. Planning a 60g cube FOWLR.

01/12/2010, 07:52 PM	#3
stugray Premium Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Longmont, Co Posts: 4,566	Find a way to drain as much as you can tolerate immediately to relieve the pressure while you start looking for another tank. My guess is "my seven year old starphire tank".... you installed it in a new house and the foundation has settled? Sorry to hear Stu __________________ Some people think that I have Attention Deficit Disorder. They just dont understand that........ Hey! Look a chicken! Well, We KNOW GOD exists, but for US to exist without a GOD is preposterous….Umm wait a minute…. Sounds a bit circular to me… Current Tank Info: 125 Gal. display w/80 gal mud/caulerpa sump. Basement sump w/ LED Grow Light,Gravity fed Reeflo200 skimmer w/ ORCA Recirc, DIY calc reactor & kalk stirrer. Inline plumbed 75 Gal frag/settling tank.

01/12/2010, 08:19 PM	#4
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	could drain down about 5 inches...would have to turn off one side of tank pumps and let other side pump in.. in other words over flow would no longer be in use. dont think it is foundation issue.. this thing is built over two ibeams. three feet apart with doubled up tgi's.. i do constuction so while i have the man power to get this thing corrected it is one of those.. do i really want to go through it.. rip out the framing around the tank..tank down tank remove and replace.. not to mention cost... right now if that is the way to go i think i will go back with acrylic..but i really hate them for cleaning the magnet with the razor blade from magnovore really made the tank enjoyable.. no more bicep work outs.. thanks. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/12/2010, 08:22 PM	#5
theyammieguy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Houston Texas Posts: 1,691	I think your only option is to break the tank down. I'm wondering if the laminate split somehow and it's not an actual crack in the glass. __________________ "Ya'll can go to hell, I'm going to Texas". David Crockett. 12g JBJ deluxe JBJ viper 70w, maxi jet 900, Koralia nano, two false percs, softies, LPS, and SPS, about 25# LR and 2"-3" SB. Running since 3/22/07. Soon to add sump with skimmer Click my home page for pictures. 40g breeder upgrade in progress. Planning a 60g cube FOWLR.

01/12/2010, 08:30 PM	#6
coralnut99 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bushkill, PA Posts: 3,632	I know it's darn easy for me to say, but at least you have time to deal with it, and it didn't just blow out. I've had my share of disasters, the last one brought me to tears. This hobby is not for the faint of heart or the easily discouraged. This story is enough to make me scratch starphire glass off my list. Bracing on a top-down crack is REALLY tough to accomplish. As a temporary fix you might try two pieces of 3/4" plywood on each side of the tank, and clamp them together with deep-thoated clamps at the top and bottom. Hopefully that makes sense. The idea is to apply pressure on a rigid plane covering as much of the crack as possible. The amount of clamping pressure needed here is actually minimal, as all you're trying to do is avert a blow-out. Hopefully, Uncleof6 will chime in here with some thoughts or suggestions. Best of luck. __________________ Why can't my wife see this stuff as an investment? Current Tank Info: way too much to list, and still adding more!

01/12/2010, 08:48 PM	#7
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	need some more suggestions.. all i can think of is to some how get some sealant into the top under the plcastic rim around the tank. maybe some water or something got under there and worked into a micro crack and got it going..anyone thing that doing a brace from one side to the other on the lenghtin front of tank will help..in other words i have a 6 inch piece of glass 96 long that will run on top off the permiter to strenthen or should i do another brace from back to front. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/12/2010, 08:54 PM	#8
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	i have been away from this forum for about a year. who are the large tank guys here that i can pm.... another question.. if i some how get the water level down six inches would that really help.. and if so any ideas on how to make the tank look nice.. mangroves.hermits on the rocks which would be exposed.. just think if i didnt have the sps crash of 2008 how nuts i would be.. yep lost all sps back in early 2008 and kept fish only with live rock and some monti's here and there.. but have nice regal, black tang, banded angel ect.. i guess the 300 horse troff sump will be nice look down tank in the basment mechanical.. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/12/2010, 09:26 PM	#9
Zestay Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: gainesville, FL Posts: 1,622	your gonna have to get a new tank . or at least a new pane of glass.

01/12/2010, 09:45 PM	#10
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	i do think there is also some type of splitting in the laminate. its wierd i can lookup and see reflection and also like splintering but like tiny tiny ripples ..if i had a better camera i could post a pic.. now here is another thought and maybe i can get some help here.. can i have the front panes..the laminate front glass replaced on site... in other words can we rebuild on site.. option?// thanks again all __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/12/2010, 09:55 PM	#11
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	by the way.. what is the average price for a acrylic tank..about 96 by 31 by 31... and how much harder to clean than glass. any new advance cleaning tools for acrlyic in the past few years..or still a pain.. ?? __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/12/2010, 10:17 PM	#13
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	tank currently has three cross braces which are 9 inches wide. tank then has two inch perimeter bracing inbetween these. i have 6 inch pieces of starphire glass that i can run..silicone on top of the existing bracing..so i would be overlapping what is there now. ...but would this do anything to stop the problem...i believe there will still be pressure pusing against the middle of the tank..right... i guess i will watch closely over next week and see if it is growing..only one pane of glass has issue..so i think there will be time to see what happens... __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/12/2010, 11:27 PM	#14
hebygb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Elmhurst, IL Posts: 2,207	Sorry to hear about your tank. I have to agree with the previous replies, as well as I think you know... you will have to replace the tank. Replacing the front panel will mean a complete teardown and dismantling of the tank anyway. As for acrylic, it is not my intent to raise that long winded acrylic vs glass thread... I am a huge fan of acrylic and all three of my tanks and sumps are acrylic. Do they scratch ... sure... can you avoid it... Of course.... can they be repaired... YES... to me its a no brainer. I would look around... there was a large acrylic here a couple of weeks ago that may still be available... maybe in IA... also I think Minneapolis. Best of luck... let me know if you need any help on the teardown.

01/13/2010, 08:35 AM	#15
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	do we have the name and contact info for a glass tank builder.///?? __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/13/2010, 11:16 AM	#16
hebygb Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Elmhurst, IL Posts: 2,207	Glass Cages? Probably there are more custom shops out there. There is a tank here in Mission Kansas at a LFS that is brand new and sitting empty. I honestly cant recall if it is glass or acrylic, but it has been sitting empty for over a year. It may be more like 800 gallons... Mission Pets is the store. They also make tanks, sumps, filtration... been in business for 30 some years. There are two large acrylic tanks on the sale thread... one has been for sale for well over a year now... it is the better of the two on the front page.

01/13/2010, 11:29 AM	#17
hoffy02 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Crosby, TX. Posts: 399	If the tank is cracking in the middle and from top to bottom it would mean one or both of the ends has dropped, or center is rising. If this is the only side, then I would guess that the crack was already there and is just now being exposed or opened by the settling. Have you checked for level? Use a bullet type small level so you can check in small spots to see if one side is pulling down...

01/13/2010, 01:10 PM	#18
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	will do the level check.. the stand for the tank is serious.. 4 x4 ...cross brace ect. with two sheets of 1 inch plywood on top.. yep only spot. crack is in front center area. runs from the top down starts traight down for about 3/4 of inch then starts to angle at 45 degree. does look a littel different like some laminat issues. break out the level tonight.. will droping down the water level couple of inches do anything. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/13/2010, 01:46 PM	#19
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 1,922 ok.. got a hold of mitch.. was very nice over the phone...actually talked about a lot.. he asked me to send him some pics.. says the tank is strong and laminated fronts are quite strong.. something i knew before. his thought was that this might not be crack but maybe something with laminate.. he thought it was strange that the crack if that is what it is cannot be felt on either side.. in other words can glass crack which has crack only on helf the diameter of the glass. in other words .. glas sis 5/8 thick and crack is 1/8 thick and runs two inches long.?? __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/13/2010, 02:02 PM	#20
ycrazyy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 327	It's very possible for a crack in glass, especially laminated glass, to not be felt at all (even with a fingernail). There is a possibility of the laminate separating, and that depends on how they laminated it (press on, oven method, etc.). However, laminated glass is NOT stronger than a solid piece of glass. The difference is that laminated will stay in one piece whereas if this were a solid piece and you had the crack, it would most likely have split already. Either way, if the laminate is coming apart or the glass is cracked I think your only option (i.e. safest, smartest) would be to replace the tank. There is clearly a flaw and at some point the tank will fail.

01/13/2010, 02:10 PM	#22
Chicago Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: earth Posts: 3,218	ok.. so here is what i need to do.. let me get some pics and post them. there is absolutly no feeling of a crack on the outside or the inside of the tank.. i can run my finger across it and feel nothing. . also when looking at it with a black pad behind it it does not touch the black pad. nor does it touch the black pad if i put it up against the front pane. maybe water worked into the laminate. maybe splittling. hard to say.. cant look down the top of glass as it has a black rim around the tank siliconed in place. __________________ "If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will" ..famous poet.. Current Tank Info: 500 gal starphire, reef sps dominated, 40 plus fish, 300 gallon sump in basement below, reeftek calcium reactor, reeftek kalkwasser reactor, lifeguard fluidized filter for rowaphose, 4 400MH 10k xm, 2 160 vho super attinic, DYI 50 gallon denitrator

01/13/2010, 03:19 PM	#23
ycrazyy Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: New York Posts: 327	Please post a pic, but as I said, we cut laminated glass everyday and rarely can you actually feel the break in the glass until we go to cut the actual interlayer. When laminated glass comes apart (as opposed to breaking) the interlayer tends to show more bubbles than lines (however I have not seen this on a tank before, so the pressure may have a different effect on it).

01/13/2010, 03:40 PM	#24
hoffy02 Moved On Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Crosby, TX. Posts: 399	im tagging just cause this sounds so weird... I have never heard of glass only cracking half way through??? Which is why i wouldnt believe it to be a crack.. Maybe delamination but I wouldnt believe it to do so in a linear way as you describe... I am a mechanical integrity inspector so cracks and discontinuities are my life... but this is just weird....please update with what ever comes of this

01/13/2010, 06:10 PM	#25
James79 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Houston Tx Posts: 170	In my experience broken lami under stress will immediately crack out until the stress is relieved, your crack is growing very slowly so I don't think the problem is bracing. Most likely a small crack was covered up with edge trim and over time small stresses or temp changes have caused it to run out. Maybe the windshield repair method can stop it from growing any longer. How thick are the panes?