Problem with micro bubbles in the reef aquarium

mirlush · 01/21/2010, 03:19 PM

Hi everyone!
I've had a 200 gallon reef aquarium for a while now and since day one I've been trying to fight a problem with thousands of small bubbles. I have no idea where they are coming from: definately not the skimmer or any other equipment.
I've tried various things. My last attempt consisted of replacing the old sump with a new one that included two bulble catchers (panels where water falls down in a tiny waterfall, then goes under another one, then falls down again). For some reason it did not help much.

Right now I'm planning to build a 400 gallon tank, so everything changes and I want to do better in terms of those bubbles. Questions:
1) Did anyone have a similar problem and managed to solve/improve it?
2) Does anyone know know how deep should be the water flowing over the bubble catcher or any specs on the subject?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

t4zalews · 01/21/2010, 03:23 PM

Same problem here...I dunno where they are coming from. these pesky little bubbles have good holding power too, my vortech doesnt remove them easily

sowellj · 01/21/2010, 03:45 PM

It is a little difficult to tell, but it sounds like your sump is baffled. Are the bubbles making it through the sump or is the return chamber of the sump clear of bubbles? If the return chamber of the sump is clear of bubbles, perhaps it is cavitation.

kevorkian · 01/21/2010, 04:12 PM

Is the sump pump to high volume?

kermit_criminal · 01/21/2010, 04:27 PM

is the water level in the return section of the sumphigher then the last baffle? meaning is there a waterfall from tha last baffle before the water gets to the pump?

rgonzalez · 01/21/2010, 05:33 PM

Did you try making the room dark and running a flashlight into your sump? This is a great way to find microbubble sources.

2 TAZ · 01/21/2010, 08:33 PM

If you are running an external pump and there are little or no bubbles in the sump chamber that supplies the pump, then the source of the bubbles is probably a tiny air leak between the sump and the pump. Most external pumps have female threaded ends that excepts male PVC fittings, this point is a common source of air getting into the line. I have had this problem. I never had any salt creep at all at the leak, no water escaping only air entering. What worked for me was plumbers putty. I would use this only as a last resort as it is probably not completely safe as I believe it is petrolium based. Try applying more tefllon tape on the threaded end first, sometimes more tape solves the problem. Any connection has the potential of letting air into the line, check unions too. In my experience if it is sucking air the leak is between the sump and the pump, generally if the leak is after the pump normally water would leak out, not air leaking in. This of course is assuming the sump is free of bubbles and the water level in the sump is high enough air cannot enter at the intake for the pump
Good luck

salty joe · 01/21/2010, 08:59 PM

2 taz, +1!

gvidal14 · 01/21/2010, 09:24 PM

I use some thick foam as a trap before the return pump and It helps a ton with the micro bubbles. No problem at all after I added the foam.

bhammer · 01/21/2010, 10:28 PM

In addtion to the other's are they coming from algea in your tank? I know that some will expell O2 like it is going out of style.

spleify · 01/21/2010, 10:41 PM

To Reef Central

Glad to have you here.

disturbed · 01/21/2010, 10:51 PM

try lowering ur sumps water level

Aristarchus · 01/21/2010, 10:59 PM

How is your plumbing set up? If you have too many 90's, 45's, or length between the sump and your external pump then that could be the cause of your problems. Try to use as little plumbing as possible going from your sump to your external pump.

mirlush · 01/22/2010, 03:54 PM

First of all, thank you all for input. This forum is a fantastic source of new knowledge on the hobby

!
So far I've tried turning off all llight, and found that the calcium reactor is leaking gas (likely CO2). That will be replaced.

The pump is external I will also try to see if putting more tape around the connectors will help and keep you posted if I manage to battle the problem.

There is a small waterfall between the the last section of the sump and the section with the water return. But i doubt that tha is the problem.

Anyway, thank you all and I'll keep you posted.

NarakuAulonocar · 02/22/2010, 02:30 AM

I wish to warn others that micro bubbles CAN kill fish.
For the first few weeks my Starcki damsel was itchy b/c of the microbubbles from the skimmer. One day, I turned the skimmer off and was doing water changes and he just died. It look like he was paralyzed. His gills were red and open.

I read elsewere that microbubbles can stick to the gills and suffocate fish.

VacavilleFC3S · 02/22/2010, 04:09 AM

naraku please stop spreading incorrect information

bhammer · 02/22/2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarakuAulonocar

I read elsewere that microbubbles can stick to the gills and suffocate fish.

Can you post a link to these studies or information? I think many of us would like to read about this.

I have been diving a bunch and can tell you that many reefs have lots of micro bubbles and larger bubbles. I have seen schools of fish playing in them.

Are you sure that there was not another casue to this death?

NarakuAulonocar · 02/25/2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VacavilleFC3S

naraku please stop spreading incorrect information

I didn't post this, someone hacked my account. They copied my message from my thread word per word.
I'm going to contact the administration.

NarakuAulonocar · 02/25/2010, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VacavilleFC3S

naraku please stop spreading incorrect information

Perhaps you hacked my account because you seem to be intent on blaming me?

vangogh121 · 02/25/2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarakuAulonocar

I didn't post this, someone hacked my account. They copied my message from my thread word per word.
I'm going to contact the administration.

LOL, Even more valuable than your Paypal account is your clay-boa account! Sorry for the sarcasm, just a little hard to (gulp) swallow.

Rhodophyta · 10/15/2011, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarakuAulonocar

I didn't post this, someone hacked my account. They copied my message from my thread word per word.
I'm going to contact the administration.

It's called a quote.

plecostrum · 01/26/2013, 12:26 PM

Why do we baffle them ?
For visual effect in main tank

I was told to add bubbles aeration if my surface level wasn't been broken by pump :-(.

Is ths bad or ok.. My return bubbles creating micros. The clowns love it. Wish I could add a pick.

I've reduced by return thru a micro sock :-)

appellativo · 07/16/2013, 07:23 PM

My new skimmer pump is putting so many extremely fine bubbles in the tank that the water looks cloudy. Is this harmful to the fish at all? Can it prevent them from getting enough air (or is it actually helping them get more air?) It's not showing up in my pic so I won't bother posting a pic because it looks way 'worse' in person.

SimplyLauraKB · 02/11/2014, 02:27 PM

Hi, all -
We're in the process of setting up a 75 gallon reef tank. Just water, sand, and rocks so far. Oh - and a snail. We have 50 lb dry rock and 20 lb live rock, and are starting to see some brown stuff growing. Now we've noticed a couple of rocks are starting to be covered with tiny bubbles too. Is this what you guys are talking about? Do we need to be concerned?

Thanks,
Laura

75 gallon w/sump (~ 20 gal?), skimmer, LED lights. Just rocks, sand, water, and a (hitchhiker) snail so far. Plan to make it a reef tank.

Uncle Salty 05 · 02/11/2014, 02:49 PM

I have been using silicone on all threaded connections for years now and have not had a micro bubble problem since.

01/21/2010, 03:19 PM	#1
mirlush Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 5	Problem with micro bubbles in the reef aquarium Hi everyone! I've had a 200 gallon reef aquarium for a while now and since day one I've been trying to fight a problem with thousands of small bubbles. I have no idea where they are coming from: definately not the skimmer or any other equipment. I've tried various things. My last attempt consisted of replacing the old sump with a new one that included two bulble catchers (panels where water falls down in a tiny waterfall, then goes under another one, then falls down again). For some reason it did not help much. Right now I'm planning to build a 400 gallon tank, so everything changes and I want to do better in terms of those bubbles. Questions: 1) Did anyone have a similar problem and managed to solve/improve it? 2) Does anyone know know how deep should be the water flowing over the bubble catcher or any specs on the subject? Any help will be greatly appreciated.

01/21/2010, 05:33 PM	#6
rgonzalez Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Scottsdale Posts: 892	Did you try making the room dark and running a flashlight into your sump? This is a great way to find microbubble sources. __________________ DSA 105 Current Tank Info: 105 DSA

01/21/2010, 08:59 PM	#8
salty joe Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: medina, ohio Posts: 2,419	2 taz, +1! __________________ Time to roll the dice.

01/21/2010, 10:41 PM	#11
spleify Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 9,579	*To Reef Central* Glad to have you here. __________________ Make it a Great Day!!!! Current Tank Info: 60 gal SPS cube, with 25 gal refugium, 400W MH, DIY Lumenarc III, DIY skimmer, DIY stand and canopy. 40 breeder LPS with 40 gallon sump, DIY stand, 250W MH

01/21/2010, 10:59 PM	#13
Aristarchus Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Tri-cities, WA Posts: 272	How is your plumbing set up? If you have too many 90's, 45's, or length between the sump and your external pump then that could be the cause of your problems. Try to use as little plumbing as possible going from your sump to your external pump. __________________ New tank: CFI Fabrications 120g 48x24x24, 40g sump, Metal Halides 2x250w DE HQI and 2x110w VHO Super Actinics, Closed Loop w/ Oceans Motions 4-way via Dolphin Amp Master 5600/4700, Neptune Apex Lite, TLF-150 Phosban Reactor, AquaC EV-120(skimmer to be replaced soon)

01/21/2010, 03:23 PM	#2
t4zalews 65g Ritteri Tank Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Royal Oak, MI Posts: 2,673	Same problem here...I dunno where they are coming from. these pesky little bubbles have good holding power too, my vortech doesnt remove them easily

01/21/2010, 03:45 PM	#3
sowellj Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: greenwood, sc Posts: 712	It is a little difficult to tell, but it sounds like your sump is baffled. Are the bubbles making it through the sump or is the return chamber of the sump clear of bubbles? If the return chamber of the sump is clear of bubbles, perhaps it is cavitation.

01/21/2010, 04:12 PM	#4
kevorkian Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 50	Is the sump pump to high volume?

01/21/2010, 04:27 PM	#5
kermit_criminal Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Streamwood, IL Posts: 149	is the water level in the return section of the sumphigher then the last baffle? meaning is there a waterfall from tha last baffle before the water gets to the pump?

01/21/2010, 08:33 PM	#7
2 TAZ Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: jACKSON NJ. Posts: 155	If you are running an external pump and there are little or no bubbles in the sump chamber that supplies the pump, then the source of the bubbles is probably a tiny air leak between the sump and the pump. Most external pumps have female threaded ends that excepts male PVC fittings, this point is a common source of air getting into the line. I have had this problem. I never had any salt creep at all at the leak, no water escaping only air entering. What worked for me was plumbers putty. I would use this only as a last resort as it is probably not completely safe as I believe it is petrolium based. Try applying more tefllon tape on the threaded end first, sometimes more tape solves the problem. Any connection has the potential of letting air into the line, check unions too. In my experience if it is sucking air the leak is between the sump and the pump, generally if the leak is after the pump normally water would leak out, not air leaking in. This of course is assuming the sump is free of bubbles and the water level in the sump is high enough air cannot enter at the intake for the pump Good luck

01/21/2010, 09:24 PM	#9
gvidal14 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Diego Posts: 49	I use some thick foam as a trap before the return pump and It helps a ton with the micro bubbles. No problem at all after I added the foam.

01/21/2010, 10:28 PM	#10
bhammer Addicted User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 743	In addtion to the other's are they coming from algea in your tank? I know that some will expell O2 like it is going out of style.

01/21/2010, 10:51 PM	#12
disturbed Moved On Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Nanticoke PA Posts: 209	try lowering ur sumps water level

01/22/2010, 03:54 PM	#14
mirlush Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 5	Thanks First of all, thank you all for input. This forum is a fantastic source of new knowledge on the hobby ! So far I've tried turning off all llight, and found that the calcium reactor is leaking gas (likely CO2). That will be replaced. The pump is external I will also try to see if putting more tape around the connectors will help and keep you posted if I manage to battle the problem. There is a small waterfall between the the last section of the sump and the section with the water return. But i doubt that tha is the problem. Anyway, thank you all and I'll keep you posted.

02/22/2010, 02:30 AM	#15
NarakuAulonocar Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New Jersey Posts: 231	I wish to warn others that micro bubbles CAN kill fish. For the first few weeks my Starcki damsel was itchy b/c of the microbubbles from the skimmer. One day, I turned the skimmer off and was doing water changes and he just died. It look like he was paralyzed. His gills were red and open. I read elsewere that microbubbles can stick to the gills and suffocate fish.

02/22/2010, 04:09 AM	#16
VacavilleFC3S Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Vacaville California Posts: 2,613	naraku please stop spreading incorrect information

01/26/2013, 12:26 PM	#22
plecostrum Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 2	Bubbles... Why do we baffle them ? For visual effect in main tank I was told to add bubbles aeration if my surface level wasn't been broken by pump :-(. Is ths bad or ok.. My return bubbles creating micros. The clowns love it. Wish I could add a pick. I've reduced by return thru a micro sock :-)

07/16/2013, 07:23 PM	#23
appellativo Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 633	My new skimmer pump is putting so many extremely fine bubbles in the tank that the water looks cloudy. Is this harmful to the fish at all? Can it prevent them from getting enough air (or is it actually helping them get more air?) It's not showing up in my pic so I won't bother posting a pic because it looks way 'worse' in person. __________________ If the first step toward recovery is admitting you have a problem...then I will stay in denial ;)

02/11/2014, 02:27 PM	#24
SimplyLauraKB Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 6	Hi, all - We're in the process of setting up a 75 gallon reef tank. Just water, sand, and rocks so far. Oh - and a snail. We have 50 lb dry rock and 20 lb live rock, and are starting to see some brown stuff growing. Now we've noticed a couple of rocks are starting to be covered with tiny bubbles too. Is this what you guys are talking about? Do we need to be concerned? Thanks, Laura 75 gallon w/sump (~ 20 gal?), skimmer, LED lights. Just rocks, sand, water, and a (hitchhiker) snail so far. Plan to make it a reef tank.

02/11/2014, 02:49 PM	#25
Uncle Salty 05 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: South Florida Posts: 3,799	I have been using silicone on all threaded connections for years now and have not had a micro bubble problem since. __________________ In all that I endure, of one thing I am sure. Knowledge and reason, change like the season. A jester's promenade. - Kerry Livgren Current Tank Info: 180 gal reef tank with dual attached refugiums 20 long and 10 gallon. Plus 55 gallon True Percula breeding tank.