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Unread 02/07/2010, 06:46 PM   #1
BradMugs
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HELP Tank Crashing??

I just did an 8 gal. water change on my 55 gal reef tank. Just a normal change but I also did some clean up moved some rocks to cut out some Colt corals gone wild, Bubble algie harvest (one over 2" oval). Reciently my Zoa's haven't all been opening but they sometimes do that. I didn't check my water params before the change - they have been pretty solid for the last 16+ months. I'm using an API Reef Faster Test Kit for all but pH (no pH in the kit) and I've got some Mardel test strips for the pH.

Nitrate - 0
PO4 - 0
KH - 125.3/7
Calcuim 360
pH - 7.8 - 8.0 (hard to see the colors, need a new pH test kit - suggestions?)
Salinity - 1.027 based on my refractometer

This is what I'm seeing.

Fish - seem to be acting normal
Zoa's/Plat's all closed
Clam - open and looks happy
SPS - closed (just a few of them)
softies, normal
Open Brain, about 60% extended but expected after a waterchange like this.

Normally my KH has been 143.2/8 and Calcium mid to upper 400's.

I have been driping Lime water at a higher percent than now (1 teaspoon/gal - was 2 teaspoon).

What really threw me was I saw one of those small star fish floating in the water - I've never seen that before and when it hit a rock it only kind of tried to grab on before it floated off. Those things are normally very hardy and disapear as soon as possible.

SUGGESTIONS? PLEASE?


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Unread 02/07/2010, 07:05 PM   #2
tahoe61
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crash

Did you take the colt coral out before or after the W/C. All starfish even brittlestars are sensitive to changes in Alk and Ph. It doesn't really sound like a crash. I would not change anything until your are sure of your ph, and test results with the API. Inverts and SPS are going to be the first to show stess so something is going on, but by taking an intervention before you know what the problem is could cause more problems.
A W/C of eight gallons on a 55 gal is not that much, I would chill and watch for awhile. Based on what info you provided there is no smoking gun that I can see. Maybe someone else will see the forest through the trees.


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Last edited by tahoe61; 02/07/2010 at 07:14 PM.
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Unread 02/07/2010, 07:07 PM   #3
BradMugs
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took the colt out during - removed the water and duing low tide did some clean up. then put in the new. I'll hang out and watch.Thanks.


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Unread 02/07/2010, 07:11 PM   #4
Shane Hoffman
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Nothing appears out of whack to me.....I wouldnt say your tank is on the verge of crashing unless all fish or all inverts were showing signs of distress. Sounds like maybe half of your corals are a bit upset. Has anything changed recently, flow??? lighting???

also you said "normall my KH has been....." Does that mean you didnt test it recently. If something appears off do every test you can dont go off of the assumption that its been good for a year so it is still good.......Be patient, dont do anything drastic, and do every test you can.....


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Unread 02/07/2010, 07:42 PM   #5
BradMugs
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Normally, test about once or twice a month - it's been very stable Sometimes I'll test before and after a water change just to see if anything is changing.

Still looking for a better pH test where the colors are eaiser to distinguish or a better range in the Salt Water pH range.


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Unread 02/10/2010, 07:24 PM   #6
BradMugs
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Just an update - nothing seems to have died but most of my zoa's have still not opened. And my mushrooms are still small.


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Unread 02/10/2010, 09:06 PM   #7
Engine8ff
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Its not uncommon for zoa's to close up for a while when they get upset. You may even see them get smaller before they open back up. Keep in mind that a zoa can live through pretty much anything, very hardy. Give you an example, had a small frag of purple deaths and my GBTA took over the spot so I fugured they was dead, nothing left on the frag plug but one little spot after about a month so I needed a frag plug for a couple king midas, put it in the frag tank and after a couple weeks I had a purple death growing out with the kings. Your tank chemistry looks good just keep an eye on things and you should be fine. Always test and retest and then get someone else to test again for you before taking drastic measures. Good luck


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Unread 02/10/2010, 11:08 PM   #8
seabayaquatic
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pH seems a little low. Remember every 0.1 on the pH scale is 10 times more acidic or basic depending. If 8.3 is ideal then your 7.8-8.0 reading is quite a bit more acidic then what it should be. pH is figured using an algorithm, 8.0 is 100 times more acidic then 8.2!


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Unread 02/10/2010, 11:31 PM   #9
Reefugee
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Actually, pH is a log scale. pH = -log[H+] So you have to move a whole number to change 10 times. Going from pH 8 to 8.2, you would use the equation [H+] = 10^(-pH).

a pH of 8.0 has a [H+] concentration of 10^(-8.0) or 0.000000010 M
a pH of 8.2 has a [H+] concentration of 10^(-8.2) or 0.0000000063M

So a pH of 8 is only 1.6 times more concentrated.


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Unread 02/10/2010, 11:50 PM   #10
lordofthereef
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What kind of timeline are we talking here? What you described doesn;t really have me alarmed. it sounds like you did a larger than normal cleaning which basically translated to "you peeved the livestock off more than normal".

FWIW a "tank crash" is generally associated with a rapid decline/death of your livestock.


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Unread 02/11/2010, 12:04 AM   #11
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My guess would be you stirred up some nasties between the water change and moving the rocks around a bit. Give it a little time.


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Unread 02/11/2010, 07:45 PM   #12
BradMugs
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Thanks everyone for your concern and help. Your support was what I needed more than anything else. Things are looking good, other than the zoa's and they are starting to peak out, just kind of freaked me out when everything shut down so quickly....


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Unread 02/11/2010, 09:01 PM   #13
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I'm glad to hear your tank is looking better.

In the future, if you're worried about the tank crashing, the first parameter to check is ammonia. If it's non-zero, time for some water changes and an ammonia binder.


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Unread 02/11/2010, 09:07 PM   #14
BradMugs
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Was just doing some close checking, I lost my T. maximus over night. He's almost an empty shell, looked fine last night.....


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Unread 02/11/2010, 09:11 PM   #15
bertoni
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Ouch! Sorry to hear about that. How long did you have the clam?

I might do some 10% water changes to remove any decay byproducts. Those parameters all seem okay to me. The clam death might be a concidence, or perhaps the colt released some toxins into the tank. Does the tank have activated carbon filtration?


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Unread 02/11/2010, 09:28 PM   #16
BradMugs
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About a month or so. He was a trade for some frags at the LFS. The big problem was it took about 3 months to get him in (mostly weather related - he lost one shipment to the cold). I was being picky about the looks also.


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Unread 02/11/2010, 09:29 PM   #17
BradMugs
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Forgot, no carbon - that was next on my list of equipment to buy. Can it be ran with my CFO? If so top/bottom/mixed in? Two Little Fishies equipment.


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Unread 02/11/2010, 09:50 PM   #18
seabayaquatic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefugee View Post
Actually, pH is a log scale. pH = -log[H+] So you have to move a whole number to change 10 times. Going from pH 8 to 8.2, you would use the equation [H+] = 10^(-pH).

a pH of 8.0 has a [H+] concentration of 10^(-8.0) or 0.000000010 M
a pH of 8.2 has a [H+] concentration of 10^(-8.2) or 0.0000000063M

So a pH of 8 is only 1.6 times more concentrated.
Actually the equation for pH is
I misread the logrithm the first time. You must move a whole number up or down to be 10 times more basic or acidic.


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Unread 02/12/2010, 12:31 AM   #19
chrisv
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+ 1 for a 10% water change today and one the day after tomorrow. get some carbon running, even if its just in a filter sock. this will bind any toxins from the soft coral if they caused an issue and will help resolve the inevitable pollution form the death of the clam.


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Unread 02/12/2010, 12:36 AM   #20
Michael
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id suggest you run some carbon in the system as well, there may be some chems in there from the colt and anything else as well still, and water changes are a must


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Unread 02/12/2010, 05:56 PM   #21
bertoni
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Carbon is fine mixed with a GFO, if that's what you mean. I did that for many months.


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Unread 02/12/2010, 08:22 PM   #22
TexasMike
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You mentioned you fragged the Colt? If so, I had a Colt which I wanted to get rid of, so I asked my LFS if it was ok to cut him off the rock. He said he wouldn't take it if I did that because they would release toxins. Maybe that's what happened, if you did in fact cut away some of the Colt.


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