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Unread 02/17/2010, 11:32 PM   #1
travis32
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: West Fargo, ND
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Nitrogen cycle on a new tank

I've seen some mention and discussions of nitrogen cycle. Some mention of water changes, and stuff for new tanks. I'm interested in seeing what people think (hopefully not an arguement) Intelligently about the nitrogen cycle. I admit I made a mistake (how big of one remains to be seen) by putting live rock with corals attached to my 2 week old (as of tomorrow) 55 gallon tank.

I'm the first to admit that was a dumb move on my part. I accepted the possibility that the corals would die the day they went in the tank. I hoped they didn't, but, knew they most likely would. The corals were free and the person that gave them to me, said "There's a good chance most of these will survive a new tank. Some may not.."

So, back to the discussion. I've talked to two people that have had multiple SW tanks setup over a period of 2 to 3 years. They said they didn't believe in protein skimmers and they don't believe in water changes. The person I got the rock from said they never did a water change when they setup the tank 2 years ago and it was flourishing.

I know the open ocean is difficult to emulate in a controlled environment. Millions of gallons of water to dilute polutants and reenforce the nitrogen cycle compared to 50.. Doesn't seem like good odds to me.

So, Why do SW aquariums succeed without a single water change? Why is it reccomended to do water changes in the beginning? What do the water changes accomplish that the nitrogen cycle cannot?

I've read numerous places water changes and routine water maintenance are necessary for new tanks daily to weekly and for established tanks once a month or every 2.

Why do professionals reccomend this when natural filtration is possible? And Can Natural cycling do the job of water changes?

As for my corals.. Well, they seem o.k. at the moment, but, I have little doubt at some point something will spike and they'll die and as one dies, that will reenforce the spike and cause a cascading die off of the corals.. Hopefully not killing the bacteria and anything in the rock. That's of course worse case, but, so far there's few signs of a complete cascade failure. As most would agree though. It's only 2 weeks not months of establishment.

I will be ordering some test kits to test the water. Does anyone any reccomendations on low ammonia test kids. Most of the master test kits I've found on marineland people complained that they couldn't detect low ammonia levels very well.

Plus, I always have problems matching up the colors. Obvious colors I can, but when it's a lightly different shade, I really have a tough time judging which colors match. Is there any test kits that are for the mildly "colorblind" (I don't know if I'm colorblind perse just have a difficult time comparing one color to another of the same color spectrum.) Any reccomendations on good test kits would be appreciated!

There's a variety of questions here. I'm not looking for a debate, just am confused by what people say and do and what the books say to do. I know there's not a clear cut right answer, but any real world advice is welcome!


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Unread 02/17/2010, 11:48 PM   #2
Matt850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis32 View Post
I've talked to two people that have had multiple SW tanks setup over a period of 2 to 3 years. They said they didn't believe in protein skimmers and they don't believe in water changes. The person I got the rock from said they never did a water change when they setup the tank 2 years ago and it was flourishing.
First thing i would suggest is to ask more questions on here and ignore these people. Water changes replace nutrients which the corals need to "flourish" and get rid of built up Nitrate in the water. I added a protein skimmer to my 90g after having it run without and there is a very noticeable difference. Parameters are kept in check more easily and if you saw what it can take out.... you would never stop using one. They can be a bit pricey but find a good used one if you must.

The people on RC are amazingly knowledgeable and can help with about anything.


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Unread 02/18/2010, 09:04 AM   #3
travis32
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Thanks Matt, I do actually have a protein skimmer. I went with a bak pak2. Since I have live rock and sand, I took the advice of removing the bio balls in my sump, removing the biowheel from my mechanical filter, and the bio media in the protein skimmer. I put the heater in the skimmer instead.

I hope this was a positive step. Thanks for the info on the water changes!


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Unread 02/18/2010, 09:32 AM   #4
Chiefsurfer
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ok, so I will tell a little bit about what I know. I am sure, and kinda hope wooden reefer chimes in here on anything I miss.

There are 2 nitrogen cycles. Theres the nitrification process. That turns ammonia to nitrite, then nitrate. Then there is the denitrification process. That takes nitrates and process them into nitrogen gas, which can gas off into the atmosphere from your tank. GENERALLY, our tanks are too highly stocked, with far too little rock to have a healthy enough de-nitrification process to keep nitrates down. That is one of the major issues with not doing Water Changes, keeping nitrates in check.

Most fish couldn't care less what the nitrates are. Some corals couldn't care less what nitrate levels are. Inverts really hate nitrates. SOOOO, depending on what you want to keep, there is a good chance you would NEVER need to do a water-change because of nitrates.

Another thing that Water Changes do is replenish what is lost to use by either inverts, corals, or fish. Some things that this may include would be calcium, magnesium, iodide, strontium, etc. Many of these you can dose, instead of doing water-changes, but not necessarily all. ALSO, do you want to buy test kits for like 32 different elements, then go and dose 32 elements? That would a MUCH bigger PITA than doing water-changes. I am sure some of these elements in natural sea water are completely inert things in our tanks, but some may not be. Are you prepared to go through HUNDREDS of pages of studies to know which EXACT elements need to be dosed, and which don't? It's a very tough process going this route. Possible, but very tough.

Lastly, there are some things you just can't nuetralize and remove without doing water-changes. One good example are toxins. Most corals have toxins of some-kind. These get expelled into the water. One way we get these out is with a skimmer, but I doubt a skimmer can grab them ALL. The other is with Water Changes.

Tried to keep it short and simple, hope it helps.


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Current Tank: 20 Gallon tall, 4-bulb t5 HO, Eshopps psk75H, ac-70 fuge. So far, green clown goby, striped goby, more gorillas than I wish I had, 5 SPS frags, 3 LPS Frags, 1 Softee, Turkey Wing Clam.

Plan for the future: 120 gallon 4ft glass tank.

Current Tank Info: 20 gallon tall Reef Tank
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