Substrate Fine (playground) sand or Aragonite

j_wishbone · 02/20/2010, 05:10 AM

Hi guys

Im wanting to set up a FOWLR tank

would normal play sand be sufficient as substrate...

I understand Aragonite will assist in buffering ph... will I have harder time to maintain ph if i just use play sand?

I believe 7.5-8.0 ph might be acceptable for FOWLR tanks?

I plan to just use a canister filter and skimmer for mechanical filtration and Live rock for Biological.. for a 200litre 5 foot tank

I am also thinking of adding a few kgs of hard corals (dead) to assist in buffering ph

will that be sufficient....

captstinky · 02/20/2010, 05:24 AM

If you have some play sand, I am told you can add a drop or two of vinegar to the sand. If the sand bubbles, then the sand has some buffering capacity. Otherwise it may be a silica based sand, and have little to no buffering. Plus too many silicates in the tank can be bad.

Anyone have more 'official' data? I night have read that in a thread on RC, can't recall, the coffee is still breweing this morning...

tjmarty · 02/20/2010, 07:00 AM

Aragonite wont be stirred up into the water column as easy as play sand would and get pulled into your pumps/power heads, I think it looks better than play sand.
just my 2 cents worth.

agreeive?fish · 02/20/2010, 07:06 AM

You will be unhappy with the looks of play sand... it will make your tank look like it is filled with urine rather than water... i have tried it several times on 3 diffrent large tanks (6 and 7 footers) and with 3 diffrent light set ups and every time it made my water look very very yellow even brand new water looked yellow... now if your favorite color is urine shade yellow then play sand is the way to go but if you want your waer to look like clear water then play sand is not the way to go..

j_wishbone · 02/20/2010, 07:06 AM

yeah thanks

those are good points

j_wishbone · 02/20/2010, 07:13 AM

got it!

i dont like urine?!

hehe

agreeive?fish · 02/20/2010, 07:20 AM

wishbone

i just noticed you live in australia... now you may beable to fine WHITE play sand there i dont know..all the play sand i can find in my land locked state has a yellowish tint to it which iam sure is why the play sand around here makes the water look yellow.. iam actually have some issue with some of the higher dollar sand in my little reef tank giving my water a slight yellow tint because the sand is tannish yellow out of the bag..fixing to jerk the week old sand out and replace with some white sand as soon as i find some

Randy Holmes-Farley · 02/20/2010, 09:35 AM

I understand Aragonite will assist in buffering ph... will I have harder time to maintain ph if i just use play sand?

No, it won't unless you are referring to the pH dropping well down into the 7's, which it should not anyway. So do not worry about that aspect, or expect much in that regard if you use it.

Play sand can release some soluble silicate into the water, especially when first added. That might cause some diatom blooms, but unless the sand has an unusually large amount of dissolvable materials on it, this will go away after a while.

Neogenocide · 02/20/2010, 09:43 AM

I'm using play sand, and have had zero issues with it. It's a bit darker than I like, but at $4 a bag....I can live with it. No problems with it blowing after a week or two, and only had one diatom bloom. I like it.....and no it doesn't make the water look yellow or tinted.

Scott

phenom5 · 02/20/2010, 09:51 AM

I used playsand in a tank in the past. I wasn't very happy with it. It never yellowed the water, but the sand itself wasn't very nice to look at. It looked nice and white in the bag, but once in the tank it was an ugly brown color.

Another downside was the grains were very coarse/ sharp. Not good if you have any kind of sand sifters.

It's debatable that aragonite will help with buffering. The problem is that in order for the aragonite to be dissolved and help with buffering, your pH would have to be much lower than what we keep our tanks pH at.
**EDIT** Randy beat me to it. That's what happens when you walk away from the computer mid-post.

Not sure about over there, but in the states some of the big chain pet stores sell CaribSea Aragonite Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand. Good grain size, bright white, and the cheapest sand I could find...short of going with playsand.

HTH

j_wishbone · 02/20/2010, 11:07 PM

its a bit of mix experiences with sand isnt it

it sounds like aragonite and playsand does not really provide any buffering capabilities to the system

the only impact is aesthetics ...

thanks guys!

do you guys think that you will get more dead areas in play sand than aragonite

i once used play sand in a freshwater set up and the bottom level always got black
and did not look great when I used to stir up the sand as it remained black....

lordofthereef · 02/21/2010, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j_wishbone

do you guys think that you will get more dead areas in play sand than aragonite

I think that depends on the aragonite particle size you plan to get. THere are varying sizes and they definitely sell a sugar fine which is about the same as play sand and beach sand.

Roadkillstewie · 02/21/2010, 11:02 AM

The thing with using playsand, is if you're going to use it...you need to wash the heck out of it.

While they claim to have screened and washed it... there's a nice amount of organic debris in the stuff, or let me rephrase by saying, there's a LOT of organic debris in it.

andrewknies · 02/21/2010, 11:05 AM

Spend the money on some sand you know is for sure going to be okay

I used to use play sand in my FW days cause people told me it was okay but now I have a little more invested in the hobby so whats another few dollars a bag...

lordofthereef · 02/21/2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewknies

so whats another few dollars a bag...

Playsand $3.00/50lb
Aragonite sand $25/50lb
A little more than a couple bucks a bag

agreeive?fish · 02/21/2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neogenocide

I'm using play sand, and have had zero issues with it. It's a bit darker than I like, but at $4 a bag....I can live with it. No problems with it blowing after a week or two, and only had one diatom bloom. I like it.....and no it doesn't make the water look yellow or tinted.

Scott

Iam not gonna argue the point with you or anybody else because each persons color perception and eye sight is distinctly diffrent... and each persons lighting is diffrent concidering lighting type,spectrum age of bulbs ect but i did a little test yesterday

i filled one of my empty small tanks with saltwater from my water change... put lights on it...it had the desired visual water look.. next i added play sand my tank looked like it was filled with urine...next i put a tin layer of very white sand over the playsand...guess what my tank water looked like i took the urine out of the tank and replaced it with 100% clean water.. my kids now have some more sand for thier sand box with a 1/32 ' of white sand(ill keep the rest of the bag of white sand for future use in my 30g reef tank in the next few days)

02/20/2010, 05:10 AM	#1
j_wishbone Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 102	Substrate Fine (playground) sand or Aragonite Hi guys Im wanting to set up a FOWLR tank would normal play sand be sufficient as substrate... I understand Aragonite will assist in buffering ph... will I have harder time to maintain ph if i just use play sand? I believe 7.5-8.0 ph might be acceptable for FOWLR tanks? I plan to just use a canister filter and skimmer for mechanical filtration and Live rock for Biological.. for a 200litre 5 foot tank I am also thinking of adding a few kgs of hard corals (dead) to assist in buffering ph will that be sufficient....

02/20/2010, 09:35 AM	#8
Randy Holmes-Farley Reef Chemist Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Arlington, Massachusetts Posts: 86,233	I understand Aragonite will assist in buffering ph... will I have harder time to maintain ph if i just use play sand? No, it won't unless you are referring to the pH dropping well down into the 7's, which it should not anyway. So do not worry about that aspect, or expect much in that regard if you use it. Play sand can release some soluble silicate into the water, especially when first added. That might cause some diatom blooms, but unless the sand has an unusually large amount of dissolvable materials on it, this will go away after a while. __________________ Randy Holmes-Farley Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef

02/20/2010, 09:43 AM	#9
Neogenocide Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Findlay, OH Posts: 851	I'm using play sand, and have had zero issues with it. It's a bit darker than I like, but at $4 a bag....I can live with it. No problems with it blowing after a week or two, and only had one diatom bloom. I like it.....and no it doesn't make the water look yellow or tinted. Scott __________________ NorthWest Ohio Reef Association

02/20/2010, 09:51 AM	#10
phenom5 Unregistered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,096	I used playsand in a tank in the past. I wasn't very happy with it. It never yellowed the water, but the sand itself wasn't very nice to look at. It looked nice and white in the bag, but once in the tank it was an ugly brown color. Another downside was the grains were very coarse/ sharp. Not good if you have any kind of sand sifters. It's debatable that aragonite will help with buffering. The problem is that in order for the aragonite to be dissolved and help with buffering, your pH would have to be much lower than what we keep our tanks pH at. EDIT Randy beat me to it. That's what happens when you walk away from the computer mid-post. Not sure about over there, but in the states some of the big chain pet stores sell CaribSea Aragonite Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand. Good grain size, bright white, and the cheapest sand I could find...short of going with playsand. HTH __________________ Rob Current Tank Info: DSA 155 Pro \| ATI Sunpower \| ATB 840 v2 \| Apex \| Wav

02/20/2010, 05:24 AM	#2
captstinky Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 309	If you have some play sand, I am told you can add a drop or two of vinegar to the sand. If the sand bubbles, then the sand has some buffering capacity. Otherwise it may be a silica based sand, and have little to no buffering. Plus too many silicates in the tank can be bad. Anyone have more 'official' data? I night have read that in a thread on RC, can't recall, the coffee is still breweing this morning...

02/20/2010, 07:00 AM	#3
tjmarty Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Parma,Oh Posts: 125	Aragonite wont be stirred up into the water column as easy as play sand would and get pulled into your pumps/power heads, I think it looks better than play sand. just my 2 cents worth.

02/20/2010, 07:06 AM	#4
agreeive?fish Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,803	You will be unhappy with the looks of play sand... it will make your tank look like it is filled with urine rather than water... i have tried it several times on 3 diffrent large tanks (6 and 7 footers) and with 3 diffrent light set ups and every time it made my water look very very yellow even brand new water looked yellow... now if your favorite color is urine shade yellow then play sand is the way to go but if you want your waer to look like clear water then play sand is not the way to go..

02/20/2010, 07:13 AM	#6
j_wishbone Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 102	got it! i dont like urine?! hehe

02/20/2010, 07:20 AM	#7
agreeive?fish Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 3,803	wishbone i just noticed you live in australia... now you may beable to fine WHITE play sand there i dont know..all the play sand i can find in my land locked state has a yellowish tint to it which iam sure is why the play sand around here makes the water look yellow.. iam actually have some issue with some of the higher dollar sand in my little reef tank giving my water a slight yellow tint because the sand is tannish yellow out of the bag..fixing to jerk the week old sand out and replace with some white sand as soon as i find some

02/20/2010, 11:07 PM	#11
j_wishbone Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 102	its a bit of mix experiences with sand isnt it it sounds like aragonite and playsand does not really provide any buffering capabilities to the system the only impact is aesthetics ... thanks guys! do you guys think that you will get more dead areas in play sand than aragonite i once used play sand in a freshwater set up and the bottom level always got black and did not look great when I used to stir up the sand as it remained black....

02/21/2010, 11:02 AM	#13
Roadkillstewie Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 52	The thing with using playsand, is if you're going to use it...you need to wash the heck out of it. While they claim to have screened and washed it... there's a nice amount of organic debris in the stuff, or let me rephrase by saying, there's a LOT of organic debris in it.

02/21/2010, 11:05 AM	#14
andrewknies Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Hobart, IN Posts: 117	Spend the money on some sand you know is for sure going to be okay I used to use play sand in my FW days cause people told me it was okay but now I have a little more invested in the hobby so whats another few dollars a bag...