Bulkhead leaking!

Markwjr · 02/20/2010, 10:09 PM

I put 5g of water in the tank (150g) today to check the bottom seams of the tank. All of the seals for the tank are fine. No leaks. So, I took a few cups and filled in one of the overflow sections. And, to my disappointment, one of my bulkheads were leaking! The inlet to the tank on the right side of my tank's bulkhead is leaking. On the bottom of the tank, it wobbles quite alot, so I presume it's loose. I didnt put much water in the overflow box because I noticed the leak, but it is definately leaking. Also, even though the other bulkhead wasnt leaking, Im kind of worried about them all as a whole. I was touching the pipes and notice that the wiggle. About 1/2" to either side. Should they wiggle this much? I was trying to get a video, but my camera died. I took a picture of the leak for you to see, but I had to take it from my phone, so its a terrible picture.

It looks like its from the PVC, but its not. Its coming out of the side of the black bulkhead on the side that is nearest to the back of the tank.
What do you think I should do?

Mark

Markwjr · 02/20/2010, 11:00 PM

I think I will just replace all four. So I presume I would just take a wrench and unscrew the nut on the bottom of the tank. Since im removing the bulkheads, couldnt I just grip the end of the top peice of the bulkhead (the part that the nut screws onto) from the underside of the tank too and use both wrenches to pull in opposite directions? Sounds like this would work to me..

Also, the drainpipe didnt come with an intake strainer..should I have one of those or it doesnt matter?

Mark

brubinfeld · 02/20/2010, 11:18 PM

at first i had the samething and i replaced my bulkheads (making them to tight will break them)
u also need to make sure that the inside bottom of the tank needs to be clean of any particles whtsoever in order to have a tight seal...
also salt is a clocking agent so it will stop leaking after a while

billdogg · 02/21/2010, 12:18 AM

you need to take them apart, clean them and the glass, the assemble them so that the gasket is on the flange side of the bulkhead - on your setup that appears to be the inside. NO WRENCHES!!!! 1/4 to 1/2 turn past hand tight NO WRENCHES!!! You should also avoid silicone sealant - it is not needed. If you must, just enough silicone plumbers grease to make the gasket shiny - no globs. I find that it helps me with that last little bit of a turn, without allowing the gasket to deform. It is also a good idea to give your plumbing support so that it does not wobble or hang on the bulkhead - that will stress the glass and lead to a crack. Leaks WILL NOT seal themselves! - they may slow down, but will always be there, so fix them now while it is easy. One last thing - a few gallons in the bottom is not a leak test - fill it full and leave it for a few days. if it is dry and level then, you are good to go.

HTH

lordofthereef · 02/21/2010, 01:15 AM

The bulkheads shouldn't wiggle... at all. If they are wiggling they are either junk (need to be replaced) or have not been tightened enough. Is the rubber gasket on the flange end?

yongpanda · 02/21/2010, 02:36 AM

what i herd people do is use a bitof clear silicone to put them together since its easy to take apart when breaking your system down for an upgrade.

lordofthereef · 02/21/2010, 04:06 AM

I thought I should add that most hardware store locally don't sell these things. If you live in the midwest near a Thesien's they have sch40 bulkheads. They are Banjo brand and are EXCELLENT build quality. Price is actually very comparable to online stores as well. If you don;t have a local supplier I would either look at bulk reef supply or glass holes. Noth are dot coms.

overklok · 02/21/2010, 05:59 AM

Make sure the small raised rings on the rubber gasket face the glass inside the tank. Do not over tighten the bulk head fitting.

rgsa8892 · 02/21/2010, 07:43 AM

tou shouldn't need sylicone if everything is clean.It should only be hand tight and at room temp

Markwjr · 02/21/2010, 09:22 AM

Thanks all!

Well, I checked the fitting on all of the bulkheads and one was easy to get off. This one didnt leak, but since I wanted to replace all four, I figured it wouldnt hurt to get it out. So my question is, where should the bulkhead come off of? Should all of the PVC come out of both sides, or is the underside supposed to stay in? I posted a picture, let me know where its supposed to come apart if you could. Thanks.

I wasnt going to use a wrench to tighten it, only untighten it and hold the top half still (from the bottom) while I unscrewed the nut. For the life of me, I cant get the other three to unscrew just by trying to unscrew the nut. Any ideas what could convinve it to turn?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Drainpipe on the left, inlet on the right. The wiggling isnt happening on the bulkhead on the left, just the right. The wiggling on the drainpipe is happening where the PVC tubing connects with the big white pieces. Its like this on the other drainpipe also.

Mark

scottwhitson · 02/21/2010, 10:50 AM

Those look like slip bulkheads which means the PVC is glued into them and you can't remove it. You will just have to replace the PVC as well.

Markwjr · 02/21/2010, 11:01 AM

After reading that, and thinking I would have to replace it either way, I decided to try to get it out. After abotu 15 seconds of pulling, the bulkhead came loose. This is what I ended up with:

Looks like all I will have to replace is the bottom peice of PVC and the bulkhead.

Mark

Markwjr · 02/21/2010, 11:49 AM

Even though I got that one out, I still cant get the one out that's actually leaking. What do I do if I cant use a wrench to unscrew it? It rocks back and forth, so it's not tight to the fish tank, nut I cant unscrew it. It's too tight.

Mark

overklok · 02/21/2010, 11:51 AM

If you have a large pipe wrench, you can grab it. Otherwise, time to get out the dremel.

Russter · 02/21/2010, 11:53 AM

You can use a wrench to unscrew it if you have to. Just don't use a wrench to tighten the new ones.

rgsa8892 · 02/21/2010, 11:57 AM

they aren't expensive so i would cut them out with a hack saw or pvc cutter and buy new ones

biecacka · 02/21/2010, 12:40 PM

key things 1 dont over tighten
2 dont over tighten
plus over time salt creep will seal any small leaks down the road
hth

Markwjr · 02/21/2010, 12:51 PM

The thing is, though, that its not a small leak. Its a leak like its from a fountain. And the bulkhead isnt even tight. Its loose enough to wobble to give 1/8" of clearance on either side. Im really having issues with this. I don't want to take any type of cutting blade to my tank..

Mark

stevek480 · 02/21/2010, 02:12 PM

So did you try a wrench to get it off? Are you not able to turn the nut with a wrench at all, or does the whole bulkhead and nut just turn together?

I had to use a dremel to cut 4 bulkheads off a used tank I got, it not a big deal. I used the cut-off wheel; you just have to be careful when you get close to the glass, but it's not like the cutoff wheel will cut through glass anyway.

Markwjr · 02/21/2010, 02:57 PM

Problem almost solved. Thanks to my friend here:

I got the nut off of two of them. The other two will have to wait. The inlet pipes into the tank have an extra wide piece (coupling?) that allows tubing to be put in. This is too large to allow the nut off and is screwed on. It wouldnt fit through the overflow hole anyway. So, I will have to cut through the peice of PVC between the bulkhead and this, what Im calling it, coupling. No big deal there. After that is done, out will come the last two bulkheads, new will go in, I will find a sump, and the tank will be operational.

Thanks everyone for putting up with me.

Mark

Chris27 · 02/21/2010, 03:22 PM

It doesn't make much sense to replace bulkheads if you don't have to, just clean them up real nice, visually inspect them for any thread damage and body cracking. If they look good, get yourself a new gasket and you'll be ready to go. When re-installing them, run a very thin bead of silicone on the inside of the tank, and tighten the bulkhead down on it. Wait 24 hours for it to cure.

The one that was leaking was wobbling right? If it was so tight that you needed to get a 12" pair of channel locks, I would figure it to be broken, cross threaded, had threads full of salt or had thread damage on either side of the nut.

Markwjr · 02/21/2010, 03:54 PM

The threads were messed up and there was salt everywhere. Yes, the bulkhead was wobbling, but I managed to get the nut loose. All of the other bulkheads look nice, but there is no real need to change them? I mean..if they seal water still, everything is good and I shouldnt have to replace them until my system comes down?

Would it be better to be safe than sorry in this case or is there relatively no reason for a bulkhead failure once the tank is operational?

Mark

lordofthereef · 02/21/2010, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markwjr

The threads were messed up and there was salt everywhere. Yes, the bulkhead was wobbling, but I managed to get the nut loose. All of the other bulkheads look nice, but there is no real need to change them? I mean..if they seal water still, everything is good and I shouldnt have to replace them until my system comes down?

Would it be better to be safe than sorry in this case or is there relatively no reason for a bulkhead failure once the tank is operational?

Mark

I think this largely depends on the quality of the bulkhead. Does it look like it go it? Was it just worn? At the nominal price of replacing your bulkheads (not sure how many you have but $20 should do the trick I think) I would be happier having the peace of mind knowing that I replaced them with quality pieces.

Chris27 · 02/21/2010, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markwjr

The threads were messed up and there was salt everywhere. Yes, the bulkhead was wobbling, but I managed to get the nut loose. All of the other bulkheads look nice, but there is no real need to change them? I mean..if they seal water still, everything is good and I shouldnt have to replace them until my system comes down?

Would it be better to be safe than sorry in this case or is there relatively no reason for a bulkhead failure once the tank is operational?

Mark

If you'll sleep better at night, then it won't hurt to replace them...the sch 40 ones are pretty cheap @$5 each depending on the size, so it's not too bad. The sch 80 ones get expensive quickly though - I paid $20 for a 2" one I put into my sump for my external pump intake...

Frick-n-Frags · 02/22/2010, 12:17 AM

i assemble and seal everything with silicone sealer..bulkheads, pvc pipe assemblies.

why? it is sealed for sure, and yes, except for glass, silicone comes apart easily off of plastic.

some of this crap has been in service 16 years and never has leaked

caveat: i use HD pvc plumbing parts for everything, not dedicated bulkheads, so this stuff needs to be sealed anyway.

02/20/2010, 10:09 PM	#1
Markwjr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 15	Bulkhead leaking! I put 5g of water in the tank (150g) today to check the bottom seams of the tank. All of the seals for the tank are fine. No leaks. So, I took a few cups and filled in one of the overflow sections. And, to my disappointment, one of my bulkheads were leaking! The inlet to the tank on the right side of my tank's bulkhead is leaking. On the bottom of the tank, it wobbles quite alot, so I presume it's loose. I didnt put much water in the overflow box because I noticed the leak, but it is definately leaking. Also, even though the other bulkhead wasnt leaking, Im kind of worried about them all as a whole. I was touching the pipes and notice that the wiggle. About 1/2" to either side. Should they wiggle this much? I was trying to get a video, but my camera died. I took a picture of the leak for you to see, but I had to take it from my phone, so its a terrible picture. It looks like its from the PVC, but its not. Its coming out of the side of the black bulkhead on the side that is nearest to the back of the tank. What do you think I should do? Mark

02/21/2010, 12:18 AM	#4
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	you need to take them apart, clean them and the glass, the assemble them so that the gasket is on the flange side of the bulkhead - on your setup that appears to be the inside. NO WRENCHES!!!! 1/4 to 1/2 turn past hand tight NO WRENCHES!!! You should also avoid silicone sealant - it is not needed. If you must, just enough silicone plumbers grease to make the gasket shiny - no globs. I find that it helps me with that last little bit of a turn, without allowing the gasket to deform. It is also a good idea to give your plumbing support so that it does not wobble or hang on the bulkhead - that will stress the glass and lead to a crack. Leaks WILL NOT seal themselves! - they may slow down, but will always be there, so fix them now while it is easy. One last thing - a few gallons in the bottom is not a leak test - fill it full and leave it for a few days. if it is dry and level then, you are good to go. HTH __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

02/21/2010, 01:15 AM	#5
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	The bulkheads shouldn't wiggle... at all. If they are wiggling they are either junk (need to be replaced) or have not been tightened enough. Is the rubber gasket on the flange end? __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

02/21/2010, 02:36 AM	#6
yongpanda Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: United States Posts: 504	what i herd people do is use a bitof clear silicone to put them together since its easy to take apart when breaking your system down for an upgrade. __________________ I'm not obssesed with aquariums, I just find them very interesting :D Current Tank Info: Elos Midi in the making

02/21/2010, 04:06 AM	#7
lordofthereef One reef to rule them all Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Leominster, MA Posts: 5,299	I thought I should add that most hardware store locally don't sell these things. If you live in the midwest near a Thesien's they have sch40 bulkheads. They are Banjo brand and are EXCELLENT build quality. Price is actually very comparable to online stores as well. If you don;t have a local supplier I would either look at bulk reef supply or glass holes. Noth are dot coms. __________________ "A dog is the only thing on earth that loves you more than you love yourself" ~ Josh Billings Visit My Home page for current build thread (click my user name and select "Visit LordoftheReef's Homepage" in the drop down menu!

02/20/2010, 11:00 PM	#2
Markwjr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 15	I think I will just replace all four. So I presume I would just take a wrench and unscrew the nut on the bottom of the tank. Since im removing the bulkheads, couldnt I just grip the end of the top peice of the bulkhead (the part that the nut screws onto) from the underside of the tank too and use both wrenches to pull in opposite directions? Sounds like this would work to me.. Also, the drainpipe didnt come with an intake strainer..should I have one of those or it doesnt matter? Mark

02/20/2010, 11:18 PM	#3
brubinfeld Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: southfield Posts: 55	at first i had the samething and i replaced my bulkheads (making them to tight will break them) u also need to make sure that the inside bottom of the tank needs to be clean of any particles whtsoever in order to have a tight seal... also salt is a clocking agent so it will stop leaking after a while

02/21/2010, 05:59 AM	#8
overklok Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 130	Make sure the small raised rings on the rubber gasket face the glass inside the tank. Do not over tighten the bulk head fitting.

02/21/2010, 07:43 AM	#9
rgsa8892 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: bethel park PA Posts: 186	tou shouldn't need sylicone if everything is clean.It should only be hand tight and at room temp

02/21/2010, 09:22 AM	#10
Markwjr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 15	Thanks all! Well, I checked the fitting on all of the bulkheads and one was easy to get off. This one didnt leak, but since I wanted to replace all four, I figured it wouldnt hurt to get it out. So my question is, where should the bulkhead come off of? Should all of the PVC come out of both sides, or is the underside supposed to stay in? I posted a picture, let me know where its supposed to come apart if you could. Thanks. I wasnt going to use a wrench to tighten it, only untighten it and hold the top half still (from the bottom) while I unscrewed the nut. For the life of me, I cant get the other three to unscrew just by trying to unscrew the nut. Any ideas what could convinve it to turn? ----------------------------------------------------------------- Drainpipe on the left, inlet on the right. The wiggling isnt happening on the bulkhead on the left, just the right. The wiggling on the drainpipe is happening where the PVC tubing connects with the big white pieces. Its like this on the other drainpipe also. Mark

02/21/2010, 10:50 AM	#11
scottwhitson Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Lewiston, Idaho Posts: 1,395	Those look like slip bulkheads which means the PVC is glued into them and you can't remove it. You will just have to replace the PVC as well.

02/21/2010, 11:01 AM	#12
Markwjr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 15	After reading that, and thinking I would have to replace it either way, I decided to try to get it out. After abotu 15 seconds of pulling, the bulkhead came loose. This is what I ended up with: Looks like all I will have to replace is the bottom peice of PVC and the bulkhead. Mark

02/21/2010, 11:49 AM	#13
Markwjr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 15	Even though I got that one out, I still cant get the one out that's actually leaking. What do I do if I cant use a wrench to unscrew it? It rocks back and forth, so it's not tight to the fish tank, nut I cant unscrew it. It's too tight. Mark

02/21/2010, 11:51 AM	#14
overklok Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 130	If you have a large pipe wrench, you can grab it. Otherwise, time to get out the dremel.

02/21/2010, 11:53 AM	#15
Russter Northern Reefer Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada Posts: 531	You can use a wrench to unscrew it if you have to. Just don't use a wrench to tighten the new ones.

02/21/2010, 11:57 AM	#16
rgsa8892 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: bethel park PA Posts: 186	they aren't expensive so i would cut them out with a hack saw or pvc cutter and buy new ones

02/21/2010, 12:40 PM	#17
biecacka Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 6,361	key things 1 dont over tighten 2 dont over tighten plus over time salt creep will seal any small leaks down the road hth

02/21/2010, 12:51 PM	#18
Markwjr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 15	The thing is, though, that its not a small leak. Its a leak like its from a fountain. And the bulkhead isnt even tight. Its loose enough to wobble to give 1/8" of clearance on either side. Im really having issues with this. I don't want to take any type of cutting blade to my tank.. Mark

02/21/2010, 02:12 PM	#19
stevek480 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Flemington, NJ Posts: 605	So did you try a wrench to get it off? Are you not able to turn the nut with a wrench at all, or does the whole bulkhead and nut just turn together? I had to use a dremel to cut 4 bulkheads off a used tank I got, it not a big deal. I used the cut-off wheel; you just have to be careful when you get close to the glass, but it's not like the cutoff wheel will cut through glass anyway.

02/21/2010, 02:57 PM	#20
Markwjr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 15	Problem almost solved. Thanks to my friend here: I got the nut off of two of them. The other two will have to wait. The inlet pipes into the tank have an extra wide piece (coupling?) that allows tubing to be put in. This is too large to allow the nut off and is screwed on. It wouldnt fit through the overflow hole anyway. So, I will have to cut through the peice of PVC between the bulkhead and this, what Im calling it, coupling. No big deal there. After that is done, out will come the last two bulkheads, new will go in, I will find a sump, and the tank will be operational. Thanks everyone for putting up with me. Mark

02/21/2010, 03:22 PM	#21
Chris27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 4,452	It doesn't make much sense to replace bulkheads if you don't have to, just clean them up real nice, visually inspect them for any thread damage and body cracking. If they look good, get yourself a new gasket and you'll be ready to go. When re-installing them, run a very thin bead of silicone on the inside of the tank, and tighten the bulkhead down on it. Wait 24 hours for it to cure. The one that was leaking was wobbling right? If it was so tight that you needed to get a 12" pair of channel locks, I would figure it to be broken, cross threaded, had threads full of salt or had thread damage on either side of the nut.

02/21/2010, 03:54 PM	#22
Markwjr Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 15	The threads were messed up and there was salt everywhere. Yes, the bulkhead was wobbling, but I managed to get the nut loose. All of the other bulkheads look nice, but there is no real need to change them? I mean..if they seal water still, everything is good and I shouldnt have to replace them until my system comes down? Would it be better to be safe than sorry in this case or is there relatively no reason for a bulkhead failure once the tank is operational? Mark

02/22/2010, 12:17 AM	#25
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	i assemble and seal everything with silicone sealer..bulkheads, pvc pipe assemblies. why? it is sealed for sure, and yes, except for glass, silicone comes apart easily off of plastic. some of this crap has been in service 16 years and never has leaked caveat: i use HD pvc plumbing parts for everything, not dedicated bulkheads, so this stuff needs to be sealed anyway. __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB