Brand Noobie to LED

[GovtCheese]

I have approx. 8 years in the saltwater hobby, but currently on a break, due to lil children taking most of my time. I want to get into an LED lighting system, but I am don't know exactly what I am looking for.

couple things:
1st) I know that they aren't cheap. The tank I would be illuminating is 240ga reef (w/ hope of an upgrade in size in the not to distant future).

2nd) I have heard things like CREE, High Ouput, Emitters, Q5, P7, etc...
I assume these are different type of LED technologies. My question is which one should or can be used on a reef (w/ mostly softies or possibly LPS, no SPS).

3rd) I have seen some LED lighting systems that are being produced in Hong Kong and are sold all over Ebay at a discount. Does anyone have any useful info on these lights? are any of them any good?

4th) I recently came across a DIY LED thread here on the RC that I thought was awsome but can't imagine myself (average or less than average Joe, depends on who you ask) being able to put together something like this...
Has anyone done it and how's it working out? What was the level of difficulty?

If anyone can shed some light on the subject would be great

[GovtCheese]

I hear crickets?!?

[beeker]

there's tons of threads on this, Nano-reef also has a great DIY led thread as well as Project Led threads that have the info you are looking for as well as pictures to help you understand how it is all put together

Rapidled.com sells led kits, minus the heatsink and have good prices and would be able to answer your questions

i was looking at doing a DIY for my 200g DD tank 48*36*27 but realized i'd need atleast about 50-60 leds on each side of the tank to keep the sps i wanted to keep, these would have to have some sort of optics since my tank is 27 inches tall, i'd be going with only Cree leds since they are proven to be the best

there's tons of info out there, instead of doing the DIY led array i will be going with Evilc66's PAR38 led spotlights since they are more of a plug and play setup plus i won't need near as many leds to get the results i'm looking for with these spotlights, i'm 2 months away from my tank being done so i don't have any pics of the lighting i'm going to be going with yet

[GovtCheese]

beeker:
thanks for the response... absolutely useful info...

It seems as though we have similar interests for our tank.
I have a 240ga and would love to be able to have LED lighting support a reef setup w/ SPS... I am unclear as to whether LEDS would be able to allow good growth in anything other than possibly LPS...

[GovtCheese]

Originally Posted by beeker

i'd be going with only Cree leds since they are proven to be the best

You mention the CREE technology... What would be some other viable LED technologies?

[GovtCheese]

Beeker:

Originally Posted by beeker

PAR38 led spotlights since they are more of a plug and play setup plus i won't need near as many leds to get the results i'm looking for with these spotlights

You peaked my interest here... what and where can I view this particular setup?

[Mustang Boy]

with the right number or LEDs and the right optics you can grow any photosynthetic coral you could ever want but you have to use good quality LEDs like Cree's

also the PAR38 spotlight. there are a few threads in this section about it where people have posted pics of them in action and evil has also posted PAR graphs to show the PAR output of his bulbs. they can be purchased from nanotuners/nanocustoms and can be had in a few different color choices. these can screw into any regular lamp socket and track lighting is a very popular choice for people using larger tanks with these because track lighting is very versatile

http://www.nanotuners.com/product_in...roducts_id=623

and there is a link to the PAR38 spotlight bulb and this is the only place you can purchase it

[GovtCheese]

Originally Posted by Mustang Boy

with the right number or LEDs and the right optics you can grow any photosynthetic coral you could ever want but you have to use good quality LEDs like Cree's

and there is a link to the PAR38 spotlight bulb and this is the only place you can purchase it

Much thanks!!!
I am curious to know how the optics effects lighting?

[GovtCheese]

Mustangboy:
Also, With LED I noticed that the rules have changed (3-5watts per gallon).
How do I determine how many leds (bulbs) would I need to illuminate a standard 240ga reef??

[Mustang Boy]

well the watts per gallon rule was thrown out when new bulbs like T5HO and even more advanced technology arrived.

now optics work like this. an LED with no optic has a spread of light 110-120 degrees now this spreads the light out more but also spreads the PAR out more so its not as high. now optics take all of the light and narrow it into a 80,60,40etc. degree spread. now this takes all of the light and puts it in a smaller space which increases PAR so for deeper tanks you want narrower optics so it will punch high PAR down deeper into the tank.

now for how many that will depend on alot of different aspects. what you want to keep(i think u mentioned SPS), your tank dimensions, also how even you want the light to be. some people like a tank to glow full of light whereas others like the spotlight effect which the PAR38 can do by placing them further apart. now the spotlight effect has the benefit of lighting only certain parts of the tank like if you have 2 rock islands you can place LEDs just over them and then have a shadowed area between them.

[GovtCheese]

Originally Posted by Mustang Boy

well the watts per gallon rule was thrown out when new bulbs like T5HO and even more advanced technology arrived.

I never did have the opportunity to review the T5HO lighting systems...
I stayed w/ PC and MH lighting up till about a little more than a year ago when I just couldn't afford to pay my high electric bills... Now with LED advancements, I am hopeful to get back into running a reef

[Jack07013]

before you buy any LED light - simple question to ask: why do you want to go with LED? what are the reasons? why am I asking it - because once you know why it will be easier to find the right LED light.

[GovtCheese]

Originally Posted by Jack07013

before you buy any LED light - simple question to ask: why do you want to go with LED? what are the reasons? why am I asking it - because once you know why it will be easier to find the right LED light.

bottom line is that I want a lighting system that can support a 240ga reef (LPS and SPS), w/o having to pay the extraordinarily high electric bills.

I used to run (4) 250w MH along, (4) 96w PC lighting, and chiller to cool down the tank. This sent my electric bill through the roof.

LED lighting appears that it could bring those costs down for me.

[Mustang Boy]

also remember with LED there is a higher start up cost. meaning it costs more to build the fixture than it will to buy a MH light setup but after about 3 yrs(with smaller fixtures not sure about larger) you start to save money just on the price of replacing bulbs not to mention the electric bill savings

i recommend checking out the DIY section and looking at some of the DIY LED builds so you can get an idea of what exactly is involved and get some ideas on the versatility of LEDs and how you might want to use them ei. use a canopy and have them only a few inches off the water or have no canopy and mount them near your ceiling for a truly topless look

[Jack07013]

the difference in price comes with controllability and authenticity of LED bulb source.

If you decide than these two things are not important to you than you open flood gate of options - but if you think these two are important to you than you limit your options honeslty to 2-3 manufacturers.

DIY is also way to go if money becomes an issue, but if you calculate cost of build up - you will see that the difference is not that much bigger.

so the bottom line is as follow:

a) brand name LED bulbs from trustworthy sources vs noname

b) controllability

simple as 1-2-3 :-)

Originally Posted by GovtCheese

bottom line is that I want a lighting system that can support a 240ga reef (LPS and SPS), w/o having to pay the extraordinarily high electric bills.

I used to run (4) 250w MH along, (4) 96w PC lighting, and chiller to cool down the tank. This sent my electric bill through the roof.

LED lighting appears that it could bring those costs down for me.

[g8gxp]

Spend a day going through the DIY section. You will get more info on LED tech and how to pick your lights than you ever wanted to know.

[beeker]

if you have questions about how many Leds for your setup, figure on this 4 PAR38 bulbs can light up a 40g breeder tank just fine, which means you need about 1 bulb per foot of tank space

to do a DIY setup you might want to light more of the tank than what the spot lights are able to do since i won't be focusing the spots on the sides of the tank or the front glass, to me this will make my tank look dramatic but honestly that is what i want with this setup

i was told by rapid Led that i'd probably need between 48 and 60 leds per side of the tank (this would be lighting a 2 foot by 3 foot area) if i wanted to light a bigger area and have the lighting be more even and not so spotlight, though with the amount of spot lights i'm using i'll have them angled to blend with each other and that will lessen the spotlighting affect to a degree

I'm going to be using 8 PAR38's over each side of my 200g

this puts 8 bulbs over a 2'*3' area and that should be more than enough for light and coverage, i could most likely get by using only 6 bulbs but i'm figuring 8 will give me everything i'm looking for

there are a lot of ways to go about it and that is the great thing about leds is you have options

Aquaillumination aslo IMO has the best led unit if you are looking for an All in one fixture, granted the price to put these over your tank will make a DIY led setup look cheap

i'm aiming to keep mainly sps corals so on my setup i will only be using 40 degree optics, Evilc66 said that would give me around 200+ PAR 5-10 inches off the bottom of this 27inch tall tank which mean i should be hitting around 100 PAR on the bottom and that is enough for LPS, Zoa's and Softies

[GovtCheese]

Originally Posted by Jack07013

the difference in price comes with controllability and authenticity of LED bulb source.


a) brand name LED bulbs from trustworthy sources vs noname

this is one of my problems...

Its tempting to go with a noname , cause you can save money...
but in saving money, would I be purchasing a light that may or may not sustain my reef

[GovtCheese]

Jack07013
Mustang Boy
beeker
g8gxp

are any of you guys currently using or plan on migrating towards LEDs?

either way... thanks much for the info!

[beeker]

my 200g DD isn't up and running yet, i still have to plumb it, cycle it and then put the lighting over it, so i won't have any pics until i get it plumb and then it will be awhile before the track lighting is setup and i have bulbs to put in it

i will only be using PAR38 led spotlights on my 200g DD so when it's finally up and running in 2 months that will be all that is on the tank as far as lighting goes

i have used T5 and MH's and now like you want something that use's less electricity, puts off less heat, and doesen't need yearly bulb replacements

Cree leds IMO are the best out there at the moment, other 3w leds may be compareable, but their life expectancy isn't what Cree leds life expectancy is, that is the main reason i'm staying away from the Maxspect and Pacificsun led lights because to me they don't use the best of the best

IMO if i had to go with any of the Led fixtures it would be the Aquaillumination models that are upgraded with the Cree leds in them, but like i said before this isn't cheap, lol

the 16 PAR38's i'll need and the track lighting will cost me around 2000k for the whole setup, for the Aquaillumination fixtures it would cost me around 2,300 or so, and for a complete 100% DIY led setup it would probably cost me around 1,700, so all in all it's all within each other + or minus 300 bucks, it really just comes down to what your comfortable with and what you want most

[neelix]

I am using Aqua Illuminations, so far so good. Just 3 modules.

For a tank as large as yours look in to the Pacifc Sun Fixtures over at Manhatten Reefs, they have a vedor over there that sells them if I was going to do it again i would have went Pacific Sun...

[beeker]

i don't think pacific sun makes any modules longer than 3 feet...and at that price point that is way too much money to spend on one of their setup's, to light my whole tank would cost me over 2k for AI fixture's and the Pacificsun isn't any cheaper

plus i don't think they are able to get any warranty work done on them in the USA looks like it's a UK only product to me, they to me are just like the maxspect fixtures, they are nicer but their price isn't any better than making your own DIY led setup or going with PAR38's and when looking at lighting i'm factoring ease of use, lifetime of product, and upfront cost

to me none of the All in one Led fixtures are reasonably priced or come with all the bells and whistles one would want at a decent price point, AI comes close but they are IMO still too expensive even with the upgraded Cree's, i like their look and their controller but i honestly don't need those things to provide the right enviorment for my corals, so to me that is just another 500-1000 dollars worth of electronics and programming that doesen't need to be there, i mean sure it's cool to have that stuff, but after having a lot of reef tanks i like things to be as simple as possible, i don't need a sunrise and sunset affect, dimability is the only thing i'd be interested in but then again i'm lighting a 27 inch tall tank and the dimming will just cut down on PAR and i want the most PAR i can get so i really don't need that feature either

if you got the money get what you want i guess, in the end it will still look purty even if you don't use all those functions, lol

[GovtCheese]

Originally Posted by neelix

I am using Aqua Illuminations, so far so good. Just 3 modules.

what size is your tank?? reef?

[GovtCheese]

Originally Posted by beeker

to me none of the All in one Led fixtures are reasonably priced or come with all the bells and whistles one would want at a decent price point, AI comes close but they are IMO still too expensive even with the upgraded Cree's, i like their look and their controller but i honestly don't need those things to provide the right enviorment for my corals

well said!!

one more thing... what type of fixtures will you use with the PAR38's?

[Mustang Boy]

Originally Posted by GovtCheese

well said!!

one more thing... what type of fixtures will you use with the PAR38's?

and household lamp can be used because it has the same base as a regular light bulb. most people who are using them for large tanks are going with track lighting though for its adjustability and its clean look