Corals Haven't Opened Up For 2 Days

[Spudzeric]

Can anyone tell me what they think is going on with my tank. My corals haven't opened up for about 2 days now. My background: I have had a saltwater tank for almost 2 years now and I have just gotten into a reef tank about 2 months ago.

My parameters:
Salinity: 33.7
Alkalinity: 9.8 dKh
Calcium: above 500 (I am using Oceanic - Natural Sea Salt Mix)
Phosphate: less than 0.2 mg/l
Nitrates: 0 mg/l
Nitrites: less than 0.2 mg/l
Ammonia: 0 - 0.2 mg/l
Temp: 26.9 degrees C
PH: 7.72

I know my Salinity is a little low, but I wouldn't think that would be the main problem..... Would it?

Below are some pics of my corals... Oh and by the way I know about my algae problem. I'm in the process of trying to get rid of it. I'm using a mixture of Phosguard and PhosPure plus Zeolite & Carbon.

The remaining pictures can be found at: http://reefcentral.com/forums/album.php?albumid=1669

[philneuss]

I would suggest finding someone else to test your water parameters just to verify your results. If the algae is starting to die off it could start poluting the water. I would do a significant water change. PH looks a little low.

[Spudzeric]

I haven't seen any algae dieing off, surprisingly I've seen an algae growth since I put the filter media in. I did a 10% water change last night, so I may wait until tonight to try another one.

[Chiefsurfer]

Well, 2 things, if you have had the tank for 2 years, I would think it was well cycled and have NO ammonia or nitrite, and you are reading something. I am not familiar with the mg/l measurement, I go by ppm, but any ammonia and nitrite means either a large portion of the bacteria was killed off, or something died in there.

First I would raise your salinity slowly, a good way is to top off with SW instead of Pure RO/DI water, this will bring you up to 35ppt. Secondly, I would figure out a way to get your PH up. If you live in an apartment or house for that matter with baseboard heat, and the house is pretty sealed up, you might have low oxtgen levels in your house. Nothing to affect us, but enough to affect the tank. Geerally PH is fairly controllable with oxygen in the water. Also, if you werte Fish Only, you may not have enough flow, or surface agitation, which will affect the oxygen levels. If your house is pretty sealed up, and don't have forced heat with make-up air, open a window near the tank. If you have a canopy, either add some air via fans, or open the lid a bit, this should bring your ph up.

Once you have fixed those 2 situations, see what happens. PS, looks like #4 coral is dead, but I am not too familiar with SPS and how they may or may not look dead vs. closed up.

[Spudzeric]

I have been using Brightwell Aquatics Alkalin 8.3 to raise my Alkalinity and it says that it will raise the PH to 8.3 with continued use, but I haven't seen any results on that part. My PH has been around 7.7 for about 2 months now.

I had a MJ1200 and another one on my AcuaC Remora skimmer. I was wondering if that would be enough to support the tank and I'm finding out that it may not. So I just added another MJ1200 to my tank, I was thinking that the water movement may be an issue.

Chiefsurfer I hope your not right about my leather tree coral. I've seen it shrivel up before, but not quite that small.

[Chiefsurfer]

Are the alk and ph on the above normal readings? If so, I don't know why you have to keep adding so much to keep it stable. Maybe look into dripping kalk or something with your top-offs.

[Spudzeric]

The guy at my LFS told me last weekend that my Alk was low. For the last 4 or 5 weeks I've been adding about 6ml of Alkalin 8.3 about 5 times a week. Other than that I add a few suppliments once a week.

[EdKruzel]

More current is certainly a good thing, but not in a steady stream. Alternating current is a necessity and can be accomplished using household timers.

Try running activated carbon in a good flow of water and change out the media (with new) at least once every three weeks.

[Spudzeric]

I'm beginning to think my biggest problem is that this past weekend I hooked up a homemade canister filter and it's quite possible that my flow through it is too weak. I will go back to my original setup tonight and see if it makes any difference.

[Zebodog]

Originally Posted by Spudzeric

Other than that I add a few suppliments once a week.

Just curious, but what supplements are you adding?

[Spudzeric]

I add 5 ml every Tuesday:
Kent Marine - Essential Elements
Kent Marine - Strontium and Molybdenum
Kent Marine - Iodide
Kent Marine - Coral-Vite

And occasionally I will add 5 ml:
Zooplex
Phytoplex
Chromaplex

But now that I have Coral Frenzy, I rarely add those anymore. I use Coral Frenzy about twice a week.

[w16227]

You will hear this many times in the hobby - SLOW DOWN. Do not add anything until you can get some stability in what you already have.

Your tank may not have completed cycling yet. A zero reading for NitrAtes is not uncommon - even if you have an algae issue as the algae sill consume the nitrate resulting in a low reading.

Small ammonia spikes can happen - but NitrItes should be zero in a cycled tank.

Things that may help -

How long were the corals in the tank and open? What about the clam?

What kind of lighting do you have? Unless something is bothering the clam - it should not be shriveled like that.

What kind of filtration (skimmer) are you using? How much rock/sand?

What else have you added to the tank over the past 2 months?

Do you see anything irritating the corals at night? Look late (2am) with a flashlight.

This is a new tank- did you use it for SW? Any copper in the tank? Ever?

What kind of test kits are you using? you should have your own. Use the fish store as a backup/confirmation to you own testing.

How are you measuring the PH?

Gut feeling is that you are still cycling since you are seeing issues across the board.

My second thought would be lighting. That clam looks really mad. How large is it? Depending on the size, it may need supplemental food beyond lighting.


Quick edit - to prevent future issues, you should probably get the tangs out of the 40g. Even ONE may become overly stressed in a smaller tank.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by Spudzeric

I'm beginning to think my biggest problem is that this past weekend I hooked up a homemade canister filter and it's quite possible that my flow through it is too weak. I will go back to my original setup tonight and see if it makes any difference.

If everything was good - until you did this, then remove it from the system.


Canister filters are not all that useful in a reef tank. They need to be cleaned often - and can actually cause nitrate issues.

Might not be a nitrate issue - but something in the "home-made" filter may be leeching out. What materials were used and were all adhesives tank safe????

[Zebodog]

All those "supplements" are probably contributing to your algae problem and their actual benefit to your tank is questionable given the current corals you have.

I'd seriously consider whether you need to add all that to your tank or not - I'd be willing to bet it's doing more harm than good.

[w16227]

Do not dose it if you cannot test for it AND explain why you need it.

If the guy at the fish store says to add this or that chemical - there is always more than one reason. They make $$$ when they sell you a bottle.

Not that Kent makes bad products, but most of what you are dosing is usually in the salt mix. Regular water changes are all that is needed

(another question-- what salt mix are you using?)

Using the phytoplankton or coral frenzy is not bad - as long as you do not overdo it. In such a new tank - you should go the simpler is better route. Only add the bare minimum of these products - IF you see a need.

Originally Posted by Spudzeric

I add 5 ml every Tuesday:
Kent Marine - Essential Elements
Kent Marine - Strontium and Molybdenum
Kent Marine - Iodide
Kent Marine - Coral-Vite

And occasionally I will add 5 ml:
Zooplex
Phytoplex
Chromaplex

But now that I have Coral Frenzy, I rarely add those anymore. I use Coral Frenzy about twice a week.

[Spudzeric]

Originally Posted by w16227

How long were the corals in the tank and open? What about the clam?

The Coco Worm has been in for about five months and has been fine until about four days ago.
The Zooanthids have been in for about six months and have been opened fine until yesterday.
The Leather Corals have been in for about a month and a half and have been fine until yesterday.
The Flowerpot and Brain Corals have been in for about a month and have been fine until today.
The Clam has been in for about a week and has been fine until today.

Originally Posted by w16227

What kind of lighting do you have? Unless something is bothering the clam - it should not be shriveled like that.

As for lighting I have two T-5s and one T-8. The T-5s are Hagen's Power-Glo and Life-Flo and the T-8 is Hagen's Marine-Glo.

I do have a snail population problem that I have been fighting for about six months. Over the last six months I estimate that I have removed about a thousand Cerith snails. My suggestion for anyone is to stay away from the Cerith snails if at all possible. Yesterday I saw a snail that wouldn't leave the clam alone. The clam kept shutting trying to get it off.

Originally Posted by w16227

What kind of filtration (skimmer) are you using? How much rock/sand?

I am using an AquaC Remora skimmer with a MJ1200. I was using an Aqua-Tech 30-60 filter (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Tech-...-1-ct/10291977) until this past weekend I changed over to a homemade canister filter with a blend of Phosguard and PhosPure plus Zeolite & Carbon.

As for rock - I have 40 lbs of live rock. And I have about an inch and a half of sand in my 48 x 12 x 16 tank

Originally Posted by w16227

What else have you added to the tank over the past 2 months?

The only things I have added in the past two months are the corals.

Originally Posted by w16227

Do you see anything irritating the corals at night? Look late (2am) with a flashlight.

I will check tonight and see if anything is bothering them. The only things I could think of that would bother them would be either my Pepperment Shrimp, my Scarlet Cleaner Shrimp, or the abundance of snails that I am trying to get rid of.

Originally Posted by w16227

This is a new tank- did you use it for SW? Any copper in the tank? Ever?

I haven't checked for copper... Ever.... Do I need to?

Originally Posted by w16227

What kind of test kits are you using? you should have your own. Use the fish store as a backup/confirmation to you own testing.

How are you measuring the PH?

For the Calcium test kit I use Salifert. For Alkalinity, Phosphate, Nitrate, Nitrite, and Ammonia I use Instant Ocean. As for Salinity and PH I use this (http://www.myronl.com/products/ultrameter_II.htm). To convert the conductivity to salinity I use this online converter: http://www.fivecreeks.org/monitor/sal.html

Originally Posted by w16227

Gut feeling is that you are still cycling since you are seeing issues across the board.

My second thought would be lighting. That clam looks really mad. How large is it? Depending on the size, it may need supplemental food beyond lighting.

The clam is about an inch and a half to two inches long.

Originally Posted by w16227

Quick edit - to prevent future issues, you should probably get the tangs out of the 40g. Even ONE may become overly stressed in a smaller tank.

I was planning on taking the yellow tang back to the LFS. It is getting very large for my tank, but the yellow eyed tang seems to be doing fine in it. If I see any problems after the yellow tang has been removed I may consider removing the yellow eyed tang.

[philneuss]

There is another snail that looks like a small cerith that is a pest on clams and other inverts. Not sure of the name but I think it is Pyramidellid, that is probably what you are fighting with there.

[Spudzeric]

Since I have added another MJ1200, my leather toadstool is looking a little better. Also a few of my zoos are opening up and my brain corals look like they are doing ok. Still don't know if my clam, coco worm, or my leather tree coral are ok though.

[Spudzeric]

Originally Posted by philneuss

There is another snail that looks like a small cerith that is a pest on clams and other inverts. Not sure of the name but I think it is Pyramidellid, that is probably what you are fighting with there.

I will take a look into those, but I think all the snail I have are cerith snail because I had the snails before I got the clam. Thanks for the suggestion I will look into them.

[Spudzeric]

Originally Posted by w16227

(another question-- what salt mix are you using?)

I am using Oceanic - Natural Sea Salt Mix and I just used the last of it last night. I'm planning on changing over to Instant Ocean the next time I purchase salt.

[Chiefsurfer]

^If you have stony corals, I would suggest reef crystals, because it naturally has higher mag and calcium. Not too much more than regular instant ocean.

[Spudzeric]

Originally Posted by Chiefsurfer

^If you have stony corals, I would suggest reef crystals, because it naturally has higher mag and calcium. Not too much more than regular instant ocean.

How is the PH balance with reef crystals, do you have to add anything to get the PH up or down. If so, what do you use?

[Chiefsurfer]

I used Reefcrystals for a while, and never had to do anything to adjust my PH. I currently use Tropic Marin, I think it has less nasties than reef crystals. A while back there was a link on here to a HUGE test-sheet on all the basic salt mixes. They based it off average readings of ACTUAL ocean water. While ReefCrystals was higher in calcium and magnesium, TropicMarin was MUCH closer to natural on most elements. I don't think it was the best, but I think it was in the top 3(closest to natural) and it was much cheaper than the "elite" salt mixes.

[Spudzeric]

Originally Posted by Chiefsurfer

A while back there was a link on here to a HUGE test-sheet on all the basic salt mixes. They based it off average readings of ACTUAL ocean water. While ReefCrystals was higher in calcium and magnesium, TropicMarin was MUCH closer to natural on most elements. I don't think it was the best, but I think it was in the top 3(closest to natural) and it was much cheaper than the "elite" salt mixes.

I will try to find the site. After you changed from ReefCrystals to TropicMarin did you see any change in your corals. Was there an increase in growth and color? Or was there no change.

[Chiefsurfer]

not much of a change. Everything has been doing great since day one. I did see a little change in growth or my encrusting monty inproved a bit, but it was a fairly new frag, and have heard that it may take a bit for a newly cut coral to start encrusting, so I cannot directly attribute it to the change. Have noticed a slightly slower progression to diatoms in my tank.