Cocos Islands Pygmy Angelfish (Centropyge joculator)

The Reef Expert · 03/08/2010, 01:05 PM

Could any of you with experience for this fish please post some information here? I am very curious as to its diet preferences and availability. I do know that they come from the secluded Cocos (Keeling) Islands in the Indian Ocean.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Keelingislands.png

http://animal-world.com/encyclo/marine/angels/images/YellowheadAngelfishWMA_Ap15BA.jpg

- Thanks!

copps · 03/08/2010, 02:59 PM

I acquired a tiny trio of these about three years ago... in less than a year they were grown and spawning... I also acquired the one and only captive raised individual which quickly became the male of the harem... these are a very hardy pygmy that eat anything and are collected well by the one collector in Cocos... they are sporadically available here in the US... but are you looking to acquire these in Bora Bora?

dflad · 03/08/2010, 04:10 PM

I second what John says. I received one about 6 months ago. A larger guy, he ate immediately and is very hardy taking in anything I offer. Quite personable too!

Sheol · 03/08/2010, 07:00 PM

I hesitate to ask my question, but what do Joculators go for, moneywise?

Matthew

The Reef Expert · 03/08/2010, 07:31 PM

Apparently $800 - 1000

IFbettas · 03/08/2010, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Reef Expert

Apparently $800 - 1000

In the states they are much cheaper than that.

massman · 03/09/2010, 07:02 AM

As mentioned they are only collected by one guy on Cocos. This was a condition of sale when the Clunies-Ross family sold the Island to the Australian government.
Monopoly at its greatest.

About 7 years ago I paid a lot of money to the then regulatory body AFMA (Australian Fisheries Management Authority) to determine the feasibility in allowing a permit to be issued to collect this species from Christmas Island (where they are far more common).
The study over 12 months proved that it was easily sustainable and that a licence application would be supported if I applied.
I subsequently did, the management authority was suddenly changed to Western Australian fisheries, and it was then rejected!
Not conducive to supporting the local economy. *** is that about. I live in the state?

I was dirty.
I've subsequently found out there was a bit of "ahem" political pressure to preserve the existing monopoly.

Anyway enough of my rant.
They are hardy fish, always found deeper than 20m, and are nearly always in harems. (At least in my 30 dives on Christmas Island)

I caught a couple, and they were eating brine within 30 minutes of surfacing whilst still in buckets.

Yurivd · 03/09/2010, 07:52 AM

how is the collector

The Reef Expert · 03/09/2010, 07:52 AM

Interesting. Do you catch fish in Christmas Island often? *hint* *hint* cough cough *pricelist* cough ???

lol

DustnF · 03/09/2010, 03:42 PM

I would also love to have one of these fish. What would be the best way to go about getting one?

Sheol · 03/09/2010, 06:15 PM

Sounds about right, with only one collector at present.
Well, I hope John's harem starts to spawn soon, maybe some will become available here in the states. LOL
BTW, how are they about pecking/nibbling at Reef life?

Matthew

bradleyj · 03/09/2010, 07:13 PM

I was able to acquire 2 of them last year in the hopes that they would eventually pair up.
I am constantly amazed by their personality, always playing together. I named them Ping and Pong because when they stare at you face to face, they look like little panda bears.

Chelsey · 03/09/2010, 07:39 PM

John's harem IS spawning....

"I acquired a tiny trio of these about three years ago... in less than a year they were grown and spawning"

alcove · 03/10/2010, 12:01 AM

arent those bicolor angels..........................lol awesome fish i want one!!!!!!!!!!

Creetin · 03/10/2010, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alcove

arent those bicolor angels..........................lol awesome fish i want one!!!!!!!!!!

LOL the poor mans joc's/

I love the fish but there's alot of things i would like to get first.

Sheol · 03/10/2010, 01:15 PM

Well, this poorman has the C. bicolor right now! LOL
But I think Joculators are not as hard to acclimate. Its just accquiring them that takes effort.

Matthew

Creetin · 03/10/2010, 01:44 PM

I have a bicolor as well, Great fish!!

reeftanker10 · 03/10/2010, 02:14 PM

Nice looking fish...Do they nip corals?

Sheol · 03/10/2010, 06:32 PM

Any Centropyge can nip at corals. Some never do. Some do & don't do much damage. Others are the Coral Terminator's. There is also some evidence that there are two sub-genera here, one of which ( Including C. argi & its relatives) that are lesser risks. And some, ie Lemonpeel's for one, love to graze coral, esp. LPS

Matt

velvetelvis · 03/10/2010, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by copps

I also acquired the one and only captive raised individual which quickly became the male of the harem...

*trying not to hyperventilate* Where do you get captive-raised centropyge in the US? I know RTC was raising them a few years ago, but from what I understand they've stopped rearing angelfish...

skibum9884 · 03/11/2010, 12:27 PM

my understanding is that they're spawning in a lot of people's tanks, but raising the fry is a whole other issue!

copps · 03/11/2010, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velvetelvis

*trying not to hyperventilate* Where do you get captive-raised centropyge in the US? I know RTC was raising them a few years ago, but from what I understand they've stopped rearing angelfish...

I've been friends with Frank Baensch of RCT for years as I travel to Hawaii regularly and am a fellow angelfish nerd. I've owned many of his CB fish and some of the broodstock wild pairs he spawned. Frank worked with many angelfish that were not put on his site... one of these were Centropyge joculator... and one little secret is that ONE CB joc was raised... Frank worked with only two Indian Ocean species... Centropyge debelius and Centropyge joculator... he did them concurrently, but they were very tough to raise... Frank thought perhaps it was the wild copepod nauplii he was using, which was Pacific obviously... anyway, a CB joc would have probably been sold for about what he sold the interrupta for... $650... but the debelius he sold went for about seven times that, so in his frustration, he dumped what he had left of the jocs in with the debelius... after they went through metamorphasis it took Frank a little while to realize what the little different guy was... it was a joc! I had admired this joc on trips to Hawaii and when it came time for Frank to unload all of his fish I jumped at this fish... I actually received it paired up with a CB interrupta (ironically, jocs are closely related to interrupta... and NOT to bicolor... the similarities in color are probably convergent evolution...). When I placed the pair in with my system with the wild jocs the CB joc dumped the interrupta and began spawning with the jocs...

Actually, outside of Hawaii there have been no tank spawned and raised angelfish produced that I've confirmed, although I've heard stories...

kinlayan · 03/11/2010, 05:39 PM

Hey copps, i love hearing about all this extra angelfish information.... you have so much to teach many of us dont be shy to post more info please

Sheol · 03/11/2010, 06:17 PM

I'm hearing rumors of Blue-Stripes, though those aren"t Centropyge angels, being CB & raised.
Worthy projects, yes?

Matthew

The Reef Expert · 03/16/2010, 11:15 PM

Hey, this should be a joculator primer

lol.

03/08/2010, 01:05 PM	#1
The Reef Expert Moved On Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Wonderland Posts: 255	Cocos Islands Pygmy Angelfish (Centropyge joculator) Could any of you with experience for this fish please post some information here? I am very curious as to its diet preferences and availability. I do know that they come from the secluded Cocos (Keeling) Islands in the Indian Ocean. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/Keelingislands.png http://animal-world.com/encyclo/marine/angels/images/YellowheadAngelfishWMA_Ap15BA.jpg - Thanks!

03/08/2010, 02:59 PM	#2
copps Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Northern VA Posts: 2,679	I acquired a tiny trio of these about three years ago... in less than a year they were grown and spawning... I also acquired the one and only captive raised individual which quickly became the male of the harem... these are a very hardy pygmy that eat anything and are collected well by the one collector in Cocos... they are sporadically available here in the US... but are you looking to acquire these in Bora Bora? __________________ - John Coppolino September '04 RC TOTM January '11 RC TOTM Buy fish that excite YOU, and respect others' passions. Yes, we know, there's a cheaper and prettier fish than the one we’re talking about. Current Tank Info: displays are 1300 gallon SPS (8.5' x 6' x 42"), 240 gallon anemone, and 350 gallon fish only

03/09/2010, 07:13 PM	#12
bradleyj Reefkeeping Mag Staff Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Murray, Utah Posts: 3,454	I was able to acquire 2 of them last year in the hopes that they would eventually pair up. I am constantly amazed by their personality, always playing together. I named them Ping and Pong because when they stare at you face to face, they look like little panda bears. __________________ Murray, Utah 335G reef, 72" Maristar, Deltec AP702, PF601S , 2 Darts 4Vortech MP40's 18,000 Gph Feb, 2012 RC TOTM Current Tank Info: 335g Leemar

03/09/2010, 07:39 PM	#13
Chelsey Clownfish Addict Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Missouri Posts: 5,031	John's harem IS spawning.... "I acquired a tiny trio of these about three years ago... in less than a year they were grown and spawning" __________________ Always bear in mind your own resolution to succeed is more important than any one thing. Current Tank Info: 100 gallon cube, 28 gallon snowflake tank, 2500 gallon broodstock system

03/10/2010, 01:44 PM	#17
Creetin Limestone Cowboy. Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In a little place i like to call a little place. Posts: 4,552	I have a bicolor as well, Great fish!! __________________ If only common sense was common. Current Tank Info: 300 gal marineland deep

03/08/2010, 04:10 PM	#3
dflad Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Moss Beach, Ca 94038 Posts: 794	I second what John says. I received one about 6 months ago. A larger guy, he ate immediately and is very hardy taking in anything I offer. Quite personable too!

03/08/2010, 07:00 PM	#4
Sheol Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Waxahachie, Tx. Posts: 3,610	I hesitate to ask my question, but what do Joculators go for, moneywise? Matthew

03/08/2010, 07:31 PM	#5
The Reef Expert Moved On Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Wonderland Posts: 255	Apparently $800 - 1000

03/09/2010, 07:02 AM	#7
massman Marine Fish Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Australia mate! Posts: 591	As mentioned they are only collected by one guy on Cocos. This was a condition of sale when the Clunies-Ross family sold the Island to the Australian government. Monopoly at its greatest. About 7 years ago I paid a lot of money to the then regulatory body AFMA (Australian Fisheries Management Authority) to determine the feasibility in allowing a permit to be issued to collect this species from Christmas Island (where they are far more common). The study over 12 months proved that it was easily sustainable and that a licence application would be supported if I applied. I subsequently did, the management authority was suddenly changed to Western Australian fisheries, and it was then rejected! Not conducive to supporting the local economy. *** is that about. I live in the state? I was dirty. I've subsequently found out there was a bit of "ahem" political pressure to preserve the existing monopoly. Anyway enough of my rant. They are hardy fish, always found deeper than 20m, and are nearly always in harems. (At least in my 30 dives on Christmas Island) I caught a couple, and they were eating brine within 30 minutes of surfacing whilst still in buckets.

03/09/2010, 07:52 AM	#8
Yurivd Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: PTA South Africa Posts: 898	how is the collector

03/09/2010, 03:42 PM	#10
DustnF Moved On Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 172	I would also love to have one of these fish. What would be the best way to go about getting one?

03/09/2010, 06:15 PM	#11
Sheol Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Waxahachie, Tx. Posts: 3,610	Sounds about right, with only one collector at present. Well, I hope John's harem starts to spawn soon, maybe some will become available here in the states. LOL BTW, how are they about pecking/nibbling at Reef life? Matthew

03/10/2010, 12:01 AM	#14
alcove Moved On Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Jax beach ,FL Posts: 80	arent those bicolor angels..........................lol awesome fish i want one!!!!!!!!!!

03/10/2010, 01:15 PM	#16
Sheol Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Waxahachie, Tx. Posts: 3,610	Well, this poorman has the C. bicolor right now! LOL But I think Joculators are not as hard to acclimate. Its just accquiring them that takes effort. Matthew

03/10/2010, 02:14 PM	#18
reeftanker10 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Woodriver Posts: 150	Nice looking fish...Do they nip corals?

03/10/2010, 06:32 PM	#19
Sheol Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Waxahachie, Tx. Posts: 3,610	Any Centropyge can nip at corals. Some never do. Some do & don't do much damage. Others are the Coral Terminator's. There is also some evidence that there are two sub-genera here, one of which ( Including C. argi & its relatives) that are lesser risks. And some, ie Lemonpeel's for one, love to graze coral, esp. LPS Matt

03/11/2010, 12:27 PM	#21
skibum9884 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,157	my understanding is that they're spawning in a lot of people's tanks, but raising the fry is a whole other issue!

03/11/2010, 05:39 PM	#23
kinlayan Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cape Town , South Africa Posts: 822	Hey copps, i love hearing about all this extra angelfish information.... you have so much to teach many of us dont be shy to post more info please

03/11/2010, 06:17 PM	#24
Sheol Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Waxahachie, Tx. Posts: 3,610	I'm hearing rumors of Blue-Stripes, though those aren"t Centropyge angels, being CB & raised. Worthy projects, yes? Matthew

03/16/2010, 11:15 PM	#25
The Reef Expert Moved On Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Wonderland Posts: 255	Hey, this should be a joculator primer lol.