no bubble trap???

sassyfrassy · 03/09/2010, 07:02 PM

My new skimmer takes up 2/3 of my sump, and I have other equipment that needs to go in there too. The return pump will pump into the fuge. Would bubbles be a problem - I will have bubble-trap partitions in the fuge b/f water goes back into DT.

jenjen · 03/09/2010, 07:40 PM

Would be helpful to see a pic or rough drawing of your setup. You're talking about removing baffles from the sump? My main concern would be maintaining a constant water level for the skimmer - most of them are a little fussy as the water level shifts.

sassyfrassy · 03/10/2010, 12:36 AM

I've read of people using brute trash cans for sumps, in which case I assumed the return pump and skimmer, along w/other equipment, were all in same area. B/c I haven't operated a sump before; I'm not sure I understand why a partition would make any difference re: water level. I've read that the water level goes down from evaporation in the sump rather than the DT or fuge, but I don't understand why that would be the case. I know you must think I'm dumb, but I just don't quite understand how all this works - I've read & read & read - looked at diagrams, etc.; but my only experience has been w/DT & wet/dry filter. My set up is DT overflows into sump, which pumps water up into refugium (located beside & a little above DT); and fuge gravity flows water back into DT for a closed loop.

Jstdv8 · 03/10/2010, 12:57 AM

as long as you have a bubble trap before the return pump thats fine, if thats what you are asking.

artemus · 03/10/2010, 01:32 AM

It sounds like you are taking two concepts and meshing them together, which would be why it doesn't make sense. Your closed loop does not interact with your sump at all or at least in any closed loop I have seen.. Check out each of these links and then ask your question because I don't think there is a answer for your stated question.

Closed Loop

Sump

jimnrose · 03/10/2010, 07:53 AM

Initially I installed a bubble trap (3 plates 1" spacing) but found out I didn't have any bubble issue, so I removed two of the baffles and kept one to maintain a constant water level for the skimmer. I use a beananimal overflow box (no bubbles into the skimmer section).The Octopus (X-200) skimmer does not produce bubbles in the return water either. This gave me more room in the return section for pumps and ATO. Jim

Fizz71 · 03/10/2010, 03:20 PM

Needing a bubble trap or not can also depend on your skimmer since some bleed out more than others.

BTW..I know you had another post about water eveporation so you get the concept now, but I wanted to mention that I have a single tub for my sump and I must maintain a CONSTANT water level or the skimmer will not work as well or run too wet. I do this by a drip top-off. You cannot have your skimmer in a chamber that has water lever fluctuations. My skimmer discharge is also light on bubbles and a good 2 feet from my pump intake so I don't need a bubble trap.

sassyfrassy · 03/11/2010, 10:27 AM

Thanks

sassyfrassy · 03/11/2010, 10:59 AM

posted as new thread

bwiele · 03/11/2010, 03:21 PM

When I set up my sump, I set it up with an external return pump that pulls water through a bulkhead fitting in the sump. I have a PVC pipe inserted into bulkhead on the sump side which has a ball valve on it (to be able to seal off the sump) and on the end, there's an elbow that points mostly down, so no bubbles are likely to be pulled in and returned to the DT. Perhaps something similar could work for you?

biecacka · 03/11/2010, 05:11 PM

if the skimmer is fed via a seperate pump why do water levels matter?

Fizz71 · 03/12/2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biecacka

if the skimmer is fed via a seperate pump why do water levels matter?

The water level inside the skimimer body will be above the water level in the sump; there is an adjustment on the skimmer drain (either a ball valve or a riser tube to raise or lower) that allows you to adjust the height difference to get that perfect level inside the skimmer body to produce the wet or dry skimmate you're looking for.

The water in the skimmer body that is above the sump water line causes head pressure on the pump which is fine because the head pressure remains constant. However, as the water level in the sump drops, the amount of water in the skimmer body that is above the sump water line is technially increasing adding more head pressure on the pump. This causes the height of the water in the skimer body too drop because the pump can't keep up. The result is the skimmer chamber water line drops to the point that the skimmate won't make it up to the cup anymore.

You would need to constantly adjust the skimmer drain to get that level of water inside the skimmer back up...which is a pain.

03/09/2010, 07:02 PM	#1
sassyfrassy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Kings Mountain, NC Posts: 912	no bubble trap??? My new skimmer takes up 2/3 of my sump, and I have other equipment that needs to go in there too. The return pump will pump into the fuge. Would bubbles be a problem - I will have bubble-trap partitions in the fuge b/f water goes back into DT. __________________ Faith, hope, and love abide; but the greatest of these is love. Current Tank Info: 40g breeder DT LR & Macro Algae - 2" sand, 6 T5s & 2 fans in hood; 30gL sump/fuge w/MSX 200 skimmer & other equip.; (mangroves in DT - roots are great look)

03/09/2010, 07:40 PM	#2
jenjen Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Langley BC, Canada Posts: 1,710	Would be helpful to see a pic or rough drawing of your setup. You're talking about removing baffles from the sump? My main concern would be maintaining a constant water level for the skimmer - most of them are a little fussy as the water level shifts. __________________ "Challenges forge the greatness in you" Current Tank Info: 180gal softy reef (Apr '09)

03/10/2010, 12:36 AM	#3
sassyfrassy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Kings Mountain, NC Posts: 912	I've read of people using brute trash cans for sumps, in which case I assumed the return pump and skimmer, along w/other equipment, were all in same area. B/c I haven't operated a sump before; I'm not sure I understand why a partition would make any difference re: water level. I've read that the water level goes down from evaporation in the sump rather than the DT or fuge, but I don't understand why that would be the case. I know you must think I'm dumb, but I just don't quite understand how all this works - I've read & read & read - looked at diagrams, etc.; but my only experience has been w/DT & wet/dry filter. My set up is DT overflows into sump, which pumps water up into refugium (located beside & a little above DT); and fuge gravity flows water back into DT for a closed loop. __________________ Faith, hope, and love abide; but the greatest of these is love. Current Tank Info: 40g breeder DT LR & Macro Algae - 2" sand, 6 T5s & 2 fans in hood; 30gL sump/fuge w/MSX 200 skimmer & other equip.; (mangroves in DT - roots are great look)

03/10/2010, 01:32 AM	#5
artemus Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Arkansas Posts: 68	It sounds like you are taking two concepts and meshing them together, which would be why it doesn't make sense. Your closed loop does not interact with your sump at all or at least in any closed loop I have seen.. Check out each of these links and then ask your question because I don't think there is a answer for your stated question. Closed Loop Sump __________________ I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. - Thomas A. Edison Current Tank Info: 175 Oceanic Bow front, 3x 250w 14k SE/IceCap ballast, ReefKeeper Elite v2, Reeflo Orca 250, GEO 612 Calcium Reactor, Korallin BioDenitrator, 2x VorTech MP40w, 200 lbs live rock, 120 lbs sand, 55g sump, currently working on fully stocking..

03/11/2010, 10:27 AM	#8
sassyfrassy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Kings Mountain, NC Posts: 912	Thanks __________________ Faith, hope, and love abide; but the greatest of these is love. Current Tank Info: 40g breeder DT LR & Macro Algae - 2" sand, 6 T5s & 2 fans in hood; 30gL sump/fuge w/MSX 200 skimmer & other equip.; (mangroves in DT - roots are great look)

03/10/2010, 12:57 AM	#4
Jstdv8 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wasilla, Alaska Posts: 1,420	as long as you have a bubble trap before the return pump thats fine, if thats what you are asking.

03/10/2010, 07:53 AM	#6
jimnrose Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Villages, Florida Posts: 1,093	Initially I installed a bubble trap (3 plates 1" spacing) but found out I didn't have any bubble issue, so I removed two of the baffles and kept one to maintain a constant water level for the skimmer. I use a beananimal overflow box (no bubbles into the skimmer section).The Octopus (X-200) skimmer does not produce bubbles in the return water either. This gave me more room in the return section for pumps and ATO. Jim

03/10/2010, 03:20 PM	#7
Fizz71 FragSwapper Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: West Lawn, PA Posts: 5,800	Needing a bubble trap or not can also depend on your skimmer since some bleed out more than others. BTW..I know you had another post about water eveporation so you get the concept now, but I wanted to mention that I have a single tub for my sump and I must maintain a CONSTANT water level or the skimmer will not work as well or run too wet. I do this by a drip top-off. You cannot have your skimmer in a chamber that has water lever fluctuations. My skimmer discharge is also light on bubbles and a good 2 feet from my pump intake so I don't need a bubble trap.

03/11/2010, 10:59 AM	#9
sassyfrassy Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Kings Mountain, NC Posts: 912	help b/f put partitions in posted as new thread __________________ Faith, hope, and love abide; but the greatest of these is love. Current Tank Info: 40g breeder DT LR & Macro Algae - 2" sand, 6 T5s & 2 fans in hood; 30gL sump/fuge w/MSX 200 skimmer & other equip.; (mangroves in DT - roots are great look) Last edited by sassyfrassy; 03/11/2010 at 11:07 AM.

03/11/2010, 03:21 PM	#10
bwiele Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 94	When I set up my sump, I set it up with an external return pump that pulls water through a bulkhead fitting in the sump. I have a PVC pipe inserted into bulkhead on the sump side which has a ball valve on it (to be able to seal off the sump) and on the end, there's an elbow that points mostly down, so no bubbles are likely to be pulled in and returned to the DT. Perhaps something similar could work for you?

03/11/2010, 05:11 PM	#11
biecacka Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 6,361	if the skimmer is fed via a seperate pump why do water levels matter?