Skim During Cycle???

[petoonia]

It's been years since I cycled a tank, and I cant remember if im supposed to run the protein skimmer during the cycle. Am I supposed to???

[wooden_reefer]

You can always put the skimmate back into the cycling water, if you want to operate the skimmer for trial.

If your ammonia level is already very high, you can discard the skimmate.

[Tokyo]

I was advised to run a skimmer and PO4 remover in a reactor right from the start. Leave it bare bottom for the duration of the cycle and remove detruis afterwards before putting in sand. Worked well for me, but there's various ways of doing it.

[IPowderBlueTang]

I have always ran the skimmer when cycling a new take, has no ill effects. Tanks still cycles the same time as without skimming, but pulls out some gunk that is in the water.

[R2E2]

I have always ran my skimmer during cycling

[wooden_reefer]

Personally, I never remotely think of using the skimmer while cycling.

I always cycle with a smaller amount of water than the tank volume and I cycle in a small container.

I never change any water or use my skimmer while cycling.

I think the whole idea is silly, except to break in a new skimmer, but there are other ways.

The difference is not great, as skimming should not greater reduce the effective ammonia level while cycling.

[Michael]

Originally Posted by petoonia

It's been years since I cycled a tank, and I cant remember if im supposed to run the protein skimmer during the cycle. Am I supposed to???

imo it depends on what media you have, if you put cured live rock into the tank then id skim and do water changes to preserve the life on and in it, if the rock is dead and an ammonia source added to kick start the cycle then i wouldnt skim.

[Toddrtrex]

Personally, I have always run a skimmer and have done water changes when cycling a tank. I paid good money for quality live rock, and the life on it, I don't want to have it die off by having an ammonia spike. It has worked very well for me, and if I ever set up another tank will do it the same way.

[petoonia]

Thanks everyone!!!

The rock was uncured, but it didnt seem to bad. We are planning to go bare bottom for awhile, and adding sand a little bit later. It's a very simple set up. 58G with about 60-70 lbs. of LR. With only a skimmer, and a hob filter for mechanical filtration. The rock is our main source of biological filtration.

The most popular opinion seems to be running the skimmer so we'll do that. It does make sense to me not to let all of those nutrients settle into the tank to feed algae later on. Besides we want to break in the skimmer anyway.

Anyhow thanks everyone!!!

[Michael]

i think todd meant he buys live rock and doesnt need to cycle it and therefore uses a skimmer and water changes, i agree with him as well wooden, why would we want to allow the precious life and beneficial bacteria on and in it to die by neglecting it?

[Michael]

i never cycle with live rock, my supplyer buys figi rock and supplies it to me after 2-3 months of having it, its done mature and ready for livestock, hes relyable and a friend, i always drop a pinch of flake in for a week or 2 to make sure its mature, i always skim and wet as well when its first introduced, and always, always water change frequently when its first added, preserving life is my priority.

mike

[Toddrtrex]

Wooden --- not sure why you are making such a big deal out of this, and making it more complex then it needs to be.

It is pretty simple, I purchase "live rock" (( recently collected as you state )), put in a tank with just water. Run the tank as I would if it had been up and running for years -- just no fish. I preform water changes --- I use the "old" water from my other tanks, so no waste of water there --- and run the skimmer -- a bit wetter.

After a "while" (( it depends on the rock )), I will put in the sand. I put it in after the rocks have sloughed off most of the detritus. After that I will start to add livestock. I measure ammonia the whole time, and rarely get any readings.

This is the way I have been doing it for years, and has always given me good results, and a good percentage of the life/corals/whatnot on the live rock has been preserved.

Remember, there are several ways to do this, do what works best for you and your livestock.

[Michael]

its simple yes, but i prefer live rock from my supplier, good quality and ready to go, if you remember rightly i told you a while back that some folk might struggle to cycle media away from the dt if they live in a third floor new york apartment for example, in these cases live rock fully mature is a better method, not everyone has a garage or remote area for smelly uncured rock to mature, im also not worried about economical rock, ive spent thousands on my hobby over the years, and got some back by supplying shops with fry as well, this particular hobby is expensive, i dont care for trying to save a few bucks here and there, i understand your point of course, never said otherwise, but in the uk we usually use live rock from the supplier, all our stores here heavily stock matured rock, its guaranteed and refundable if theres a problem, and not that expensive really, dead rock which is suitible is nearly as expensive, i understand you guys in the usa may differ slightly in your methods, and i respect that.

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

It may be a big deal to write about it; but it is very easy to do it.

May be WC during cycling does not cost much in money if you use waste water from DT water change. if you have it standing by. Why would you have waste water standing by at just the right time?

Let's see, I always have 5 gallons of "clean" salt water ready to go -- since it takes about 10 minutes for me to do a WC, I would have that water in 10 minutes.

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

What ammonia level are you aiming at when you cycle with collected live rock? So you are saying that this ammonia level has always worked for you to save some lives. What have you been missing to save? Do you know what had died? May be a very nice beautiful free-living flatworm. You have never seen it. It is now gone.
Or may be a nasty pest is also gone, so you don't know what to miss or what to rejoice killing.

Each time I tested for ammonia, which was pretty much daily, I didn't have any detectable levels. Never had any issues with pest from doing it this way. I have had 2 mantis shrimps and 1 gorilla crab, both were easily trapped.

While I never ID'ed it, there were a couple of encrusting SPS's that I am pretty certain I would have lost if I would have let the ammonia spike for any amount of time.

IMO, the benefits of me doing it this way far out way any risks.

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

Like I said, an empirical tabulation would be very nice.

You do not have to use collected LR to cycle.

I never said that you have to use collected LR to cycle, now did it? I just stated how I have done it, how it works for me, and the benefits that I have seen.

[Toddrtrex]

Originally Posted by wooden_reefer

I just use bacterial seed and ammonia source.

Which costs more? What can carry more bioload at the end of a cycle?

If you live in an apartment, I certainly see your concern. In this case, just use mostly inorganic ammonia, odorless.

I never want to live in an apartment. I love dogs for one. I have two big ones.

Here is a good post from "Greenbean" on this; From this thread

Originally Posted by greenbean36191

For a given bioload there's going to be a roughly set carrying capacity for the bacteria. Whether you do a waterchange or not, you're going to end up at the same place, you just change the path you take to get there and how long it takes.

If you don't do a WC you finish the initial cycle quicker but you overshoot the carrying capacity, so the population drops, overshooting it again. You end up setting up fluctuations in the population and prolonging the time it takes for the tank to "mature" or finally settle at the carrying capacity.

If you do WCs it takes a little bit longer for the bacteria to reach the carrying capacity, but there's very little overshoot so the tank is essentially mature as soon as the cycle is done. The fact that there's less ammonia also helps to preserve diversity on the liverock.

Here's a little graph to show what's going on.


Personally, I recommend doing WCs, but either way will work.

[AZRC]

I always run a skimmer from the beggining and did water changes.

[bertoni]

Okay, I've removed a bunch of posts that were far beyond the original poster's question. Let's leave the subject alone.

[petoonia]

I was more or less just looking for a yes or no answer. I didnt realize this was one of those topics.... Didnt mean to start anything.....

[wooden_reefer]

Originally Posted by petoonia

I was more or less just looking for a yes or no answer. I didnt realize this was one of those topics.... Didnt mean to start anything.....

Yes, you can always run the skimmer during a cycle.

Do you want to put the skimmate back into the cycling water can be more significant.

[graveyardworm]

Skimmer and water changes here during cycle. Then add livestock slowly.

[bertoni]

Okay, I give up. Thread closed.