Installed Glass-Holes 700GPH kit, overflow box is quiet, but my PVC pipe isn't..Help?

KromiX · 03/10/2010, 06:34 PM

So I have the water in my tank and testing, I already cemented my pipes, so I'd have to cut and change if I did something wrong.

The Problem:

It's a Glass-Holes.com 700GPH Kit, running low flow. (Tunze 1073.020) turned all the way down, I tried all the way up, both produce the same issue. Yes, the baffle is installed inside the overflow box, and yes I played with the air tube, it changes the sound of the box which is quiet already, but does nothing to the water flowing through the pvc...

The Box itself is quiet, the noise is from the water in the pipe making a waterfall/swishing/splashing around noise. With my ear I placed the noise coming from the point in which the PVC going straight down turns with my 90Degree elbow into the stand, however that may be not the source, its hard to pinpoint. I do know its NOT coming from either the overflow box or from inside the sump where the water drains out from the PVC which is submerged 1".

I am using 1 1/2" PVC as recommended by Glass-Holes. What are my options to quiet this down?

Since its cemented in I'd have to make cuts and alterations, and my idea was to cut the long pvc pipe before it hits the 1st 90 degree elbow and maybe put some 45 degree turns in it so that the water doesn't fall straight down and turns some more, however, i'm not sure if thats even the issue or what I should put time into doing.... Any Suggestions? Is the piping my problem?

ezhoops · 03/10/2010, 06:51 PM

is the drain pipe in the overflow box submerged? that would help.

It might be too late for this but unions are great saviors fixing small problems.

It might help to put a T on your submerged drain in the sump

KromiX · 03/10/2010, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezhoops

is the drain pipe in the overflow box submerged? that would help.

It might be too late for this but unions are great saviors fixing small problems.

It might help to put a T on your submerged drain in the sump

Your asking if the hole inside the overflow box where the water exits is completely submerged? If so, its not completely I guess not enough flow to submerge it?

uncleof6 · 03/10/2010, 07:18 PM

two issue with this. One is there is air in the line. The flow is not laminar. The noise is the water air mix hitting the 90 and becoming even more turbulent. Try two 45's to get under the tank. Too bad you gotta cut the pipes to do it though. Increasing the flow rate, to cover the inlet, will just make it louder. GC overflows work alright, but they are still air/water mix drains, and are not going to be silent, unless the flow is relatively below the capacity.

Jim

richierich2000 · 03/10/2010, 07:28 PM

down in your sump the pipe going in is it submerged? I put a tee right above the water line to let it flow better

biecacka · 03/10/2010, 08:07 PM

what does the T do richie?

jacksonpt · 03/10/2010, 08:15 PM

Try replacing the rigid PVC with spa flex. The smoother/straighter the path the water follows, the quieter it will be. As Jim suggested, 45s will probably help some too if you can't go with spa flex.

ezhoops · 03/10/2010, 08:17 PM

the T will let the bubbles float up and the water flow

uncleof6 · 03/10/2010, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezhoops

the T will let the bubbles float up and the water flow

That does not do any good when you are trying to quiet the racket inside the pipe................and to use the tee, you have to put another 90 in the mix to get the tee oriented correctly, which merely aggravates the problem. It is a mythical band aid that really accomplishes nothing. The only thing that eliminates the issues with air/water mix drains, is lowering the flow rate/velocity in the standpipe/drain system, so the air and water remain separate. (laminar flow)

Jim

Johnny C · 03/11/2010, 03:19 AM

I'm having the same issue with my 700 kit and the noisey pipes. I'm at the point of considering dynamatting my PVC!

sjm817 · 03/11/2010, 07:22 AM

I agree on using 45s instead of the 90s to get to the sump entry. You can make a new setup and just press fit everything for experimentation. I would also try 1" instead of 1.5" to see how that works. Some thick foam insulation around the pipe may also be useful for dampening noise.

KromiX · 03/11/2010, 07:33 AM

sjm, try a smaller pipe?

What about trying Spa Flex, that way there is no elbows?

sjm817 · 03/11/2010, 07:39 AM

Spa flex is also a good idea. One disadvantage is you cant really press fit for experimentation. You have to glue it. 1" pipe may be better. It may be worse. It is big enough to handle the flow you are running. The pipe would be more "full" than the 1.5". You will have to experiment and see what works.

KromiX · 03/11/2010, 07:54 AM

So since I have to cut my current pvc , some will stay, how do I connect Spa Flex to PVC Pipe? a coupling and cement?

IS it even worth trying to use 45s instead of 90's could it make that much of a difference or just go straight to Flex PVC Pipe? I'm not even sure I have enough room for the flex pvc to get under there.....

sjm817 · 03/11/2010, 08:13 AM

Spa Flex glues just like regular PVC. Be sure you hold the pieces tight together when assembling. It tends to want to pop out until it sets up a bit. Another issue with Spa Flex is it comes in a roll and wants to hold that curve. The 1.5" is not very flexible and doesn't like to do what you want it to with a short run. 1" is better. I think using 45's is worth a shot. You wont have the drastic 90 and horizontal jog. It will be a smoother angled run.

KromiX · 03/11/2010, 08:19 AM

I'll try 45's today with a visit to home depot, and then if not i'll try spa flex... what a pain, but i figured now or never to get these annoyances fixed.... should I also angle the top so that it comes down in an angle as well instead of straight down?

Flavordsm · 03/11/2010, 08:39 AM

I would slap some unions on there too in case you have to redo it again

kimber45 · 03/11/2010, 08:54 AM

the 45's are going to be the easiest to try so i would do that first.

also would wrapping the pipe with that foam insulation help?

KromiX · 03/11/2010, 08:55 AM

I'll pick up some of that too, what type of foam insulation?

kimber45 · 03/11/2010, 08:58 AM

i was thinking the closed cell stuff used on household plumbing.

like this.

uncleof6 · 03/11/2010, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjm817

Spa flex is also a good idea. One disadvantage is you cant really press fit for experimentation. You have to glue it. 1" pipe may be better. It may be worse. It is big enough to handle the flow you are running. The pipe would be more "full" than the 1.5". You will have to experiment and see what works.

Because it is an air/water mix drain, the smaller pipe will simply increase the velocity inside the pipe, and aggravate the problem. With air/water mix drains, the larger the pipe the better. You can't beat the physics. To solve the issue, the velocity needs to be lowered, either by dropping the flow rate, or INCREASING the pipe size. Not many are willing to use 2 - 3" pipe on their systems.

Jim

KromiX · 03/11/2010, 09:40 AM

Jim, thanks so much for your help over the past 2 weeks, This is my first build and you have been tremendous help...

So, this is the idea I have going into today to quiet it down, do you think this is a good way to go about it?

Instead of starting it going straight down I put in a 45 right at the top and bring the water downward in a "S" shape?

kimber45 · 03/11/2010, 09:53 AM

i would leave the 90 at the bulk head and just replace the 90's going under your tank with 45's. it may take a little experimentation to get correct length piping but judging from your pics you should have plenty of room.

KromiX · 03/11/2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimber45

i would leave the 90 at the bulk head and just replace the 90's going under your tank with 45's. it may take a little experimentation to get correct length piping but judging from your pics you should have plenty of room.

sorry bad drawing the 90 on the top would stay, but instead of a straight drop, I make it an S shape coming down into my tank along the back of the tank...

kimber45 · 03/11/2010, 10:08 AM

i think you would want to keep it as straight as possible.

the more turns the more turbulence.

if it was me i would keep the straight drop. i would cut the pipe as close to the first 90 as you can, so you keep as much length as possible. then install a 45 there followed by a short straight piece followed by another 45 then your drain piece into your sump. so really all your doing is replacing the 90's with 45's.

of coarse "mock" up your new pieces before cutting your existing to make sure they are going to fit properly.

something like this.

03/10/2010, 06:34 PM	#1
KromiX V.I.P Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 1,092	Installed Glass-Holes 700GPH kit, overflow box is quiet, but my PVC pipe isn't..Help? So I have the water in my tank and testing, I already cemented my pipes, so I'd have to cut and change if I did something wrong. The Problem: It's a Glass-Holes.com 700GPH Kit, running low flow. (Tunze 1073.020) turned all the way down, I tried all the way up, both produce the same issue. Yes, the baffle is installed inside the overflow box, and yes I played with the air tube, it changes the sound of the box which is quiet already, but does nothing to the water flowing through the pvc... The Box itself is quiet, the noise is from the water in the pipe making a waterfall/swishing/splashing around noise. With my ear I placed the noise coming from the point in which the PVC going straight down turns with my 90Degree elbow into the stand, however that may be not the source, its hard to pinpoint. I do know its NOT coming from either the overflow box or from inside the sump where the water drains out from the PVC which is submerged 1". I am using 1 1/2" PVC as recommended by Glass-Holes. What are my options to quiet this down? Since its cemented in I'd have to make cuts and alterations, and my idea was to cut the long pvc pipe before it hits the 1st 90 degree elbow and maybe put some 45 degree turns in it so that the water doesn't fall straight down and turns some more, however, i'm not sure if thats even the issue or what I should put time into doing.... Any Suggestions? Is the piping my problem?

03/10/2010, 06:51 PM	#2
ezhoops Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Royal Oak, Michigan Posts: 3,530	is the drain pipe in the overflow box submerged? that would help. It might be too late for this but unions are great saviors fixing small problems. It might help to put a T on your submerged drain in the sump __________________ "Keep your Friends Close, Your Anemones Closer" Current Tank Info: Working on 60 cube, sicce 3.0 return pump, 29 gal sump with fuge,Bubble Magnus NAC6 Skimmer, Aquaticlife 4 bulb T-5 VHO, 29gal Rare Clown breeding

03/10/2010, 07:18 PM	#4
uncleof6 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: AWOL Posts: 12,013	two issue with this. One is there is air in the line. The flow is not laminar. The noise is the water air mix hitting the 90 and becoming even more turbulent. Try two 45's to get under the tank. Too bad you gotta cut the pipes to do it though. Increasing the flow rate, to cover the inlet, will just make it louder. GC overflows work alright, but they are still air/water mix drains, and are not going to be silent, unless the flow is relatively below the capacity. Jim __________________ "Things should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." (oft attributed to Einstein; most likely paraphrasing by Roger Sessions; compactly articulates the principle of Occam's Razor) Current Tank Info: 325 6' wide Reef

03/10/2010, 07:28 PM	#5
richierich2000 SPS Crazy Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Jeffersonville,Ohio Posts: 1,083	down in your sump the pipe going in is it submerged? I put a tee right above the water line to let it flow better __________________ -Rich- Current Tank Info: 180 gallon mixed reef and 125 gallon anemone/frag tank

03/10/2010, 08:15 PM	#7
jacksonpt Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Vestal, NY Posts: 3,679	Try replacing the rigid PVC with spa flex. The smoother/straighter the path the water follows, the quieter it will be. As Jim suggested, 45s will probably help some too if you can't go with spa flex. __________________ Jackson - All advice I give is based on my first hand experience. YMMV. Current Tank Info: 38g (mostly LPS) with a 20g sump/fuge and all the other standard goodies

03/10/2010, 08:07 PM	#6
biecacka Registered Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 6,361	what does the T do richie?

03/10/2010, 08:17 PM	#8
ezhoops Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Royal Oak, Michigan Posts: 3,530	the T will let the bubbles float up and the water flow __________________ "Keep your Friends Close, Your Anemones Closer" Current Tank Info: Working on 60 cube, sicce 3.0 return pump, 29 gal sump with fuge,Bubble Magnus NAC6 Skimmer, Aquaticlife 4 bulb T-5 VHO, 29gal Rare Clown breeding

03/11/2010, 03:19 AM	#10
Johnny C Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 4,140	I'm having the same issue with my 700 kit and the noisey pipes. I'm at the point of considering dynamatting my PVC! __________________ "...the sea, once it casts its spell, holds one in its net of wonders forever" -Jacques Cousteau

03/11/2010, 07:22 AM	#11
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	I agree on using 45s instead of the 90s to get to the sump entry. You can make a new setup and just press fit everything for experimentation. I would also try 1" instead of 1.5" to see how that works. Some thick foam insulation around the pipe may also be useful for dampening noise. __________________ - Scott

03/11/2010, 07:33 AM	#12
KromiX V.I.P Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 1,092	sjm, try a smaller pipe? What about trying Spa Flex, that way there is no elbows?

03/11/2010, 07:39 AM	#13
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Spa flex is also a good idea. One disadvantage is you cant really press fit for experimentation. You have to glue it. 1" pipe may be better. It may be worse. It is big enough to handle the flow you are running. The pipe would be more "full" than the 1.5". You will have to experiment and see what works. __________________ - Scott

03/11/2010, 07:54 AM	#14
KromiX V.I.P Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 1,092	So since I have to cut my current pvc , some will stay, how do I connect Spa Flex to PVC Pipe? a coupling and cement? IS it even worth trying to use 45s instead of 90's could it make that much of a difference or just go straight to Flex PVC Pipe? I'm not even sure I have enough room for the flex pvc to get under there..... Last edited by KromiX; 03/11/2010 at 08:04 AM.

03/11/2010, 08:13 AM	#15
sjm817 On Yer left! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Northern VA Posts: 18,777	Spa Flex glues just like regular PVC. Be sure you hold the pieces tight together when assembling. It tends to want to pop out until it sets up a bit. Another issue with Spa Flex is it comes in a roll and wants to hold that curve. The 1.5" is not very flexible and doesn't like to do what you want it to with a short run. 1" is better. I think using 45's is worth a shot. You wont have the drastic 90 and horizontal jog. It will be a smoother angled run. __________________ - Scott

03/11/2010, 08:19 AM	#16
KromiX V.I.P Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 1,092	I'll try 45's today with a visit to home depot, and then if not i'll try spa flex... what a pain, but i figured now or never to get these annoyances fixed.... should I also angle the top so that it comes down in an angle as well instead of straight down?

03/11/2010, 08:39 AM	#17
Flavordsm Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 230	I would slap some unions on there too in case you have to redo it again

03/11/2010, 08:54 AM	#18
kimber45 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: michigan Posts: 455	the 45's are going to be the easiest to try so i would do that first. also would wrapping the pipe with that foam insulation help?

03/11/2010, 08:55 AM	#19
KromiX V.I.P Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 1,092	I'll pick up some of that too, what type of foam insulation?

03/11/2010, 08:58 AM	#20
kimber45 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: michigan Posts: 455	i was thinking the closed cell stuff used on household plumbing. like this.

03/11/2010, 09:40 AM	#22
KromiX V.I.P Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Miami Posts: 1,092	Jim, thanks so much for your help over the past 2 weeks, This is my first build and you have been tremendous help... So, this is the idea I have going into today to quiet it down, do you think this is a good way to go about it? Instead of starting it going straight down I put in a 45 right at the top and bring the water downward in a "S" shape?

03/11/2010, 09:53 AM	#23
kimber45 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: michigan Posts: 455	i would leave the 90 at the bulk head and just replace the 90's going under your tank with 45's. it may take a little experimentation to get correct length piping but judging from your pics you should have plenty of room.

03/11/2010, 10:08 AM	#25
kimber45 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: michigan Posts: 455	i think you would want to keep it as straight as possible. the more turns the more turbulence. if it was me i would keep the straight drop. i would cut the pipe as close to the first 90 as you can, so you keep as much length as possible. then install a 45 there followed by a short straight piece followed by another 45 then your drain piece into your sump. so really all your doing is replacing the 90's with 45's. of coarse "mock" up your new pieces before cutting your existing to make sure they are going to fit properly. something like this.