APC UPS vs. Power Inverter

[ari5736]

Anybody have a sense of the cost/benefit of these two pieces emergency pieces of equipment.

P.S. Generator is not in my cards right now.

[rob.mwpropane]

I was just given an APC 1250. Run up to 900 watts. I have no idea how long and the batteries need replacing. So I'm very interested in any info your thread might get. The only thing I would want to run would be a mag 7.

[ari5736]

I should probably state that I am looking to run about approximately 150-300 watts (heater/fan and a powerhead), for as long as possible.

[rob.mwpropane]

I looked through some old threads, and they were back and forth between you can and can't. Something about turning computers on was fine, but a pump ran differently and it could burn it up. It doesn't make any sense to me, I know people do use them, but to what cost of the pump I don't know. Nor have yet to find how long they will run anything. It seemed everyone was able to agree that a battery backup could run a heater no problem. But something about it wouldn't run a pump, ? I'm looking to run a heater and pump- 160 or 260 watts depending on the heater, or what its capanle of...

[tkeracer619]

You won't be hooking a heater up to a UPS. If you are relying on a UPS for a power outage you won't have close to the power needed to sustain one.

UPS are designed for power flickers and to give a pc time to shut down. That is a few minutes at most.

The pump issue is the type of power output supplied. A modified sin wave is the most common output. In the conversion from dc to ac it is much more difficult to get a smooth alternating current. A modified sin wave does not provide the clean ac that a dual pole magnetic motor requires. Some pumps will run on the modified sin wave setup but the process is hardly efficient. A true sin wave system is much more expensive and will provide proper electricity for any device.

The next problem is battery life. They just are not meant to operate a 15w load for 10 hours but are designed to run 900w for 5 minutes. Some do better then others but IME they should not be relied on for long term power outages. If you need more time then 45 minutes you will be paying more for a UPS then for a generator at walmart.

A power inverter does just as good but are all modified sin wave supplies. An inverter is going to be better then a UPS in a pinch because you can run the car to generate more power. Once a ups is drained it is done.

Save up for a cheap generator, worth every penny.

[rob.mwpropane]

If that's the case, vortech battery backup looks like the way to go...

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by rob.mwpropane

If that's the case, vortech battery backup looks like the way to go...

While not a cheap setup they are indeed worth every penny. I plan on making my own that will run all my vortechs for a few days.

[rob.mwpropane]

Originally Posted by tkeracer619

While not a cheap setup they are indeed worth every penny. I plan on making my own that will run all my vortechs for a few days.

What do you mean make your own?

[sivert55]

buy a pure sin wave inverter, a 3 way relay switch, a 12v battery charger, and a 12v deep cycle marine battery and put it all together. The relay will turn on the inverter and power your pumps when the utility power goes out. The battery charger will trickle charge the 12v battery and keep it topped off.
Like this one:

[tkeracer619]

Originally Posted by rob.mwpropane

What do you mean make your own?

Like this without the inverter and a large deep cycle boat battery.

Originally Posted by sivert55

buy a pure sin wave inverter, a 3 way relay switch, a 12v battery charger, and a 12v deep cycle marine battery and put it all together. The relay will turn on the inverter and power your pumps when the utility power goes out. The battery charger will trickle charge the 12v battery and keep it topped off.
Like this one:

[NadMan01]

IMO a UPS provides much cleaner power than an inverter hooked to batteries. Even though you may have clean power most of the time. UPS manufactures put plenty of time into making sure they provide the cleanest power possible.

[rob.mwpropane]

I get the concept, I even understand a little. How much for a set up like that, and how long would it run things?

[rob.mwpropane]

See I don't understand why some people say use the UPS, while others say it will burn your pump up, and still others say it will only work for a short time...

[tkeracer619]

Modified Sin /= True Sin wave

The inverter on top of a battery is trying to accomplish more run time with the same concept as a UPS.

Neither are good long term solutions. An inverter on your car is going to last longer then an inverter on a car battery because it can be recharged. Advantage of the inverter on a battery is it can be set to go automatic.

Any battery that is going to be worth anything is more then $70, a decent trickle charger $30+, good inverter $130. Total $250 and some change after wiring/relay/battery box.

1200w 4stroke gasoline generator from walmart $182 with free shipping. http://www.walmart.com/ip/1200W-EPA-...#ProductDetail

[rob.mwpropane]

I want something automatic. is that?

[tkeracer619]

nope, those generators cost a lot and need automated switches on the fuse box.

Did you have vortechs? if so the battery backup they offer is the way to go.

Also, with whatever you choose. Test it. I always see people say they have a UPS but are not sure how long it will last.

Just unplug it and see . You might be disappointed but I would rather be disappointed then have a dead tank.

[tkeracer619]

Time for some real world data.

I have a Opti-UPS 1000B, you can find the specs here.
http://sewelldirect.com/Opti-UPS-Pow...-8-outlets.asp

At 12:32 I unplugged the unit. You can see that it has zero load (30w isn't enough to show on such few increments) and 100% charge and that it is in fact in backup mode.


This is running one Vortech Mp40w in full on mode 100% power. 28w Via Kil-A-Watt reading

The unit is providing me a beep loud enough I can hear that the backup is on anywhere in the house.

At 12:55 we are down to 80%.

[rob.mwpropane]

Yeah, I have 1 set of vortechs, 2 tanks

[rob.mwpropane]

Down 20% in less than 1/2 Ur?

[tkeracer619]

at 1:32. 1 hour after unplugging the UPS we are down to 60%. I didn't notice but it registered load in the last image

If I get 2 hours out of it I will be happy. I will let it charge back up and run the vortech in lagoon 100% to see if it can be stretched further. By this time I feel most cheaper UPS systems would have failed.



At 1:52.



At 1:55 it started an alarm that could be confused with a fire alarm if your windows were open and someone passed by.

At 2:14 it is down to 10%


Shortly after posting that It died at 2:17, 1h 45m after unplugging on a 28w load. The screen remained lit but no power was supplied. I plugged it back in.

[ari5736]

So UPS is out for me. Heat (both fans and heaters) is my main concern, as I have vortech's battery. Can a car battery hooked up to an inverter power an 10 watt pump, and 100 watt heater, and any sense how long if the car is off. Would a deep marine give a lot more hours of use?

[rob.mwpropane]

Well that's a bummer. Vortech battery backup it is.

[philosophish]

Just as an extra measure have you looked into emergency blankets, nasa style.

These blankets have 90% heat retention and are very inexpensive.

http://www.amazon.com/Emergency-Ther...8863918&sr=8-1

[sivert55]

i've run my md70rlt pump on my little custom job for over 5hrs and it didn't run out of juice. Pure sine wave is important for large wound motors and compressors, like chillers and refrigerators. Small motors can get by on a modified sin wave. But all motors will last longer and run cooler on a pure sine wave.

[ari5736]

Originally Posted by sivert55

i've run my md70rlt pump on my little custom job for over 5hrs and it didn't run out of juice. Pure sine wave is important for large wound motors and compressors, like chillers and refrigerators. Small motors can get by on a modified sin wave. But all motors will last longer and run cooler on a pure sine wave.

Wow, do you think I need a pure sine wave for a 100 watt heater? Can you maybe show me links for the equipment you have.