Can you buffer calcium and alkalinity at the same time?

[3skitch3]

I have b-ionic buffer liquid form. Can I dose both calcium and alkality at the same time? I'm new to buffer so I heard from someone using powder buffer that you have to alternate but i swear I've seen others buffer with liquid same
time. Probably a really stupid question. Also when I dose do I put the buffer/ro water directly into my tank?
Thanks for your time!

[Scooter902]

I dose directly into my sump at the same time. Well.. Not exactly the same time but one shortly after the other.

[olkeller]

Kalk is dosing both at the same kind

[returnofsid]

If you're dosing with a 2 part, and dose at the same time, the Calcium is likely to precipitate. I'd suggest dosing them separately.

[Rebel]

A general two-part buffer system is designed to be dosed at the same time. It has been awhile since I have used a store-bought set like b-ionic, but I believe it to be just the same.

By dosing at the same time we do not mean EXACTLY at the same time, as in pouring them in the same area of the sump at the exact same instant. Because my tank is an in-wall, I dose everything into the overflow--that way whatever I put in goes down the overflow while mixing, and it enters the most agitated section of the sump to mix. When I dose buffer, I typically dose one into one of the overflows, then wait about five minutes and dose the other in the other overflow. Perhaps waiting ten minutes would be better, but I have a large system with nearly 300 gal. of water so the two do not interact and cause precipitation.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just dose one part a little bit before the other so the first one has a chance to mix in or at least swirl away. What you want to avoid is having both clouds of additives mix together before being diluted into the tank water.

[sra127]

i dose in front of my vortec.....
60ml of alk gone in 60 seconds, then i add the calc....never had an issue of precipitation

[sellmecorals]

Honestly I think its fine to add at same time. I use this product called Fiji gold which is basically veryyy fine sand from fiji, and it says itis 100% natural calcium derived from living coral. "can be used effectively to raise calcium alkalinit and pH" What i do is stir it into my top off water." If someone has any experience with or heard of this product id like to know what you think.

There is precipitate which are the larger grains, i guess, but arent coral skeletons that are like very large precipitate, if you know what i mean, used to raise pH?

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by sellmecorals

I use this product called Fiji gold which is basically veryyy fine sand from fiji, and it says itis 100% natural calcium derived from living coral. "can be used effectively to raise calcium alkalinit and pH" What i do is stir it into my top off water."

It's hard to know exactly what this stuff is; Walt Smith International's Fiji Gold product page doesn't give sufficient details. The page describes it as:

"Fiji Gold Coral and Live Rock Supplement
is 100% natural calcium derived from
seawater and coral reef substrate."

It's possible that it's calcium carbonate in either aragonite or calcite forms (or both), or it could be calcium chloride, calcium hydroxide, or a number of other compounds that were produced by chemically altering naturally-occuring aragonite reef sand.

Based on the comment that it will raise alkalinity and calcium, it's probably just as you say - very finely divided aragonite. If that's the case, the problem is getting it into solution. While RODI will dissolve just about anything to some extent, and using very finely divided powders will accelerate the rate of dissolution, you can't exceed the solubility of the compound in water at a particular temperature.

And calcium carbonate has a very low solubility (approximately 50ppm) in water at room temperature, so you're going to have to add a whole bunch of top-off water for the concentration of calcium and alkalinity to move much.

You can improve the solubility by adding an acid to the top-off water; the easiest is white vinegar. Bubbling carbon dioxide through the water would also increase the solubility - what you would have then is a very manual "calcium reactor".

[sellmecorals]

dkeller thanks for the thorough help that was very informative.

so white vinegar is the safest? How do you know how much to put in without it turning too
unalkaline"?

im a noob when it comes to calcium dosing haha

[dkeller_nc]

White household vinegar is an approximately 4% solution of acetic acid, so you can add quite a lot without really adding all that much acid.

What I would do is look up threads on "vinegar dosing" - I believe there's a chart for tank size/amount to dose in a 24 hour period. While you're not vinegar dosing for the purpose of nitrate reduction per se, the amounts recommended for that purpose would be a good place to start.

One caution: Folks that have started out with carbon dosing (be it vinegar, ethanol (vodka) or less commonly, sugar) and were too aggressive with it wind up causing a bacterial bloom.

If you intend to stick with the "Fiji Gold" product and add vinegar to increase its solubility, I'd recommend starting slowly, and adding the mixture through an automated top-off, peristaltic pump, or a drip jug.

[sellmecorals]

noted. thanks again

[PikkaGTR]

using a saturated Kalkwasser solution in the ATO will also dose calcium and bufer alk and pH at the same time
really easy and cost effective
I do this to maintain 8.2 pH 11 Alk and 470-500 calcium by just replacing evaporated water with top off water that's essentially a saturated kalk solution

[sellmecorals]

im always confused by the meaning of Kalkwasser

[PikkaGTR]

kalkwasser is lime water
just a saturated solution of calcium hydroxide