Inverts Dying!

zhewitt04 · 04/19/2010, 09:02 PM

I have a 150 gal up for about a month. I had purchased 100 nassirous and 40 astrea snails and 20 blue legs. All the blue legs are doing great my snails all died thought and my pulsating xenia has shrivled up as well. I temp did spike to 83 becasue of malfunctioning heater. The spike was gradual and when i lowered the temp it was as well was gradual. I am down to 77 now and wanted to know if the invert deaths were from the temp spikes or do i ahve phosphates. The key to this are the crabs. So if crabs do well in warmer water than it was temp or if they don't react to high phosphates than i need a reactor. Please help so i don't spend any more money on snails that die. O i do have like 5 maybe nassiours snails alive.
Thanks

Shane Hoffman · 04/19/2010, 09:12 PM

83 degrees isnt what I would call close to a spike. You dont have to worry until you get to 85 and higher. Snails are very sensitive to acclimation. How did you acclimate them? What is your salinity level? What is your amonia. nitrates, phosphates????

Shane Hoffman · 04/19/2010, 09:13 PM

Also where did they come from????

zhewitt04 · 04/19/2010, 09:17 PM

They came from my local pet shop and the salinty is in range don't remeber the actual number.... I dripped acclimated them they did well for a day or two so... I jsut thought since it was the snails and the xenia and not the crabs it had to be something the crabs are not as sensitive about...
Thanks

Shane Hoffman · 04/19/2010, 09:28 PM

Xenia can randomly melt away in pristine waters and thrive in dirty water on monday then tuesday comes and they melt away in dirty water and thrive in pristine. Xenia are notorius for melting away out of the blue. Salinity being in range doesnt mean much to me. My range that I call good may be different than yours. You really need to test your water and post the readings here if you expect much help. How long did you drip them? Did you heat the container they were in during acclimation (this can be important if you dripped for a long time)

zhewitt04 · 04/19/2010, 09:33 PM

I dripped for about an hour. I will test tonight and give the readings later
Thanks

zhewitt04 · 04/20/2010, 04:36 PM

My salinity is 1.022. I didn't do my nitrates and nitrite and ammonia and ph because of time.

Sisterlimonpot · 04/20/2010, 04:49 PM

have you tested for copper in the tank?

moneytimetycoon · 04/20/2010, 04:59 PM

Check for a voltage leak. I hear that is happens when you have one. You may need a grounding probe.

Shane Hoffman · 04/20/2010, 05:02 PM

Your salinity is low. I would get that up to 1.026 if you continue to plan on having a reef. I dont feel it is low enough to cause snail death alone. However if you have an issue with how they were collected or negative issues experienced during acclimation the salinity could be a contributing factor. I would be willing to guess your water temp dropped dramatically if you dripped for an hour. The DT water dripping in doesnt drip fast enough to keep the water in the bucket up to temp. Depending on your house temp it could have dropped as low as 68 degrees. Then if you threw them in water that was 80 plus they may have experienced some kind of shock. Combine that with the borderline low salinity and you have trouble. For them all to die it had to be some sort of acclimation or collection issue.

mike_cmu04 · 04/20/2010, 06:08 PM

If your tank has only been up a month are you sure the cycle is done?

Sisterlimonpot · 04/20/2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_cmu04

If your tank has only been up a month are you sure the cycle is done?

excellent question, lets not overlook the obvious.

Another thing that concerns me is that's a lot of snails for a new tank with little or no algae to feed off of, perhaps they died of starvation.

eric@tampa · 04/20/2010, 07:02 PM

+1 on above post,thats what I was thinking

zhewitt04 · 04/20/2010, 08:56 PM

I don't think shock or starvation was the casue but i could be wrong the snails died off slowly all seemed to be dead in 5 days time. The other thing i keep looking at are the crabs seem to be fine so i don't think it is the electric shock thing casue that would affect them as well and my fish. The acclimation thing could be true but they lived for atleast a day or two before slowly dieing off. I don't know though i am a newbie.
Thanks again to everyone that has helped but i am still lost haha

Percula9 · 04/20/2010, 09:19 PM

They probably died of starvation. If there are snails that are dead and not removed it will foul the water and ammonia will spike.

Aquarist007 · 04/20/2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

excellent question, lets not overlook the obvious.

Another thing that concerns me is that's a lot of snails for a new tank with little or no algae to feed off of, perhaps they died of starvation.

speaking of obvious
snails and hermits are not a good mix. It could be the hermits taking out the snails

I agree with bringing the salt up slowly. 1.022 is right on the edge for invert support

blennydude · 04/20/2010, 11:58 PM

I think hermits get a bad rap for killing snails. They take the shells from dead snails then become a scapegoat.

04/19/2010, 09:02 PM	#1
zhewitt04 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 764	Inverts Dying! I have a 150 gal up for about a month. I had purchased 100 nassirous and 40 astrea snails and 20 blue legs. All the blue legs are doing great my snails all died thought and my pulsating xenia has shrivled up as well. I temp did spike to 83 becasue of malfunctioning heater. The spike was gradual and when i lowered the temp it was as well was gradual. I am down to 77 now and wanted to know if the invert deaths were from the temp spikes or do i ahve phosphates. The key to this are the crabs. So if crabs do well in warmer water than it was temp or if they don't react to high phosphates than i need a reactor. Please help so i don't spend any more money on snails that die. O i do have like 5 maybe nassiours snails alive. Thanks

04/19/2010, 09:12 PM	#2
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	83 degrees isnt what I would call close to a spike. You dont have to worry until you get to 85 and higher. Snails are very sensitive to acclimation. How did you acclimate them? What is your salinity level? What is your amonia. nitrates, phosphates???? __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

04/19/2010, 09:13 PM	#3
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	Also where did they come from???? __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

04/19/2010, 09:28 PM	#5
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	Xenia can randomly melt away in pristine waters and thrive in dirty water on monday then tuesday comes and they melt away in dirty water and thrive in pristine. Xenia are notorius for melting away out of the blue. Salinity being in range doesnt mean much to me. My range that I call good may be different than yours. You really need to test your water and post the readings here if you expect much help. How long did you drip them? Did you heat the container they were in during acclimation (this can be important if you dripped for a long time) __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

04/20/2010, 04:49 PM	#8
Sisterlimonpot R.C. Fraternity President Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Litchfeild Park AZ Posts: 11,490 Blog Entries: 2	have you tested for copper in the tank? __________________ Jimmy MASVC President Dishes are done man! Current Tank Info: 300 in progress

04/19/2010, 09:17 PM	#4
zhewitt04 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 764	They came from my local pet shop and the salinty is in range don't remeber the actual number.... I dripped acclimated them they did well for a day or two so... I jsut thought since it was the snails and the xenia and not the crabs it had to be something the crabs are not as sensitive about... Thanks

04/19/2010, 09:33 PM	#6
zhewitt04 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 764	I dripped for about an hour. I will test tonight and give the readings later Thanks

04/20/2010, 04:36 PM	#7
zhewitt04 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 764	My salinity is 1.022. I didn't do my nitrates and nitrite and ammonia and ph because of time.

04/20/2010, 04:59 PM	#9
moneytimetycoon Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Antioch, CA (The Lesser East Bay) Posts: 123	Check for a voltage leak. I hear that is happens when you have one. You may need a grounding probe.

04/20/2010, 05:02 PM	#10
Shane Hoffman Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: 45 mins from Chicago Posts: 2,009	Your salinity is low. I would get that up to 1.026 if you continue to plan on having a reef. I dont feel it is low enough to cause snail death alone. However if you have an issue with how they were collected or negative issues experienced during acclimation the salinity could be a contributing factor. I would be willing to guess your water temp dropped dramatically if you dripped for an hour. The DT water dripping in doesnt drip fast enough to keep the water in the bucket up to temp. Depending on your house temp it could have dropped as low as 68 degrees. Then if you threw them in water that was 80 plus they may have experienced some kind of shock. Combine that with the borderline low salinity and you have trouble. For them all to die it had to be some sort of acclimation or collection issue. __________________ A wise man once said "Never play leap frog with a unicorn" Current Tank Info: 150 gallon glass with 20 gallon sump, 175lbs of coraline covered live rock, EuroReef skimmer rated for 250gal, 25watt Aqua UV sterilizer, Fluval FX5, Hamilton 3x250watt MH, 160 watt Blue actinic....Mixed reef

04/20/2010, 06:08 PM	#11
mike_cmu04 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Shepherd, Mi Posts: 2,348	If your tank has only been up a month are you sure the cycle is done?

04/20/2010, 07:02 PM	#13
eric@tampa Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Tampa,Fla Posts: 322	+1 on above post,thats what I was thinking

04/20/2010, 08:56 PM	#14
zhewitt04 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Kokomo, IN Posts: 764	I don't think shock or starvation was the casue but i could be wrong the snails died off slowly all seemed to be dead in 5 days time. The other thing i keep looking at are the crabs seem to be fine so i don't think it is the electric shock thing casue that would affect them as well and my fish. The acclimation thing could be true but they lived for atleast a day or two before slowly dieing off. I don't know though i am a newbie. Thanks again to everyone that has helped but i am still lost haha

04/20/2010, 09:19 PM	#15
Percula9 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Orange County CA Posts: 3,819	They probably died of starvation. If there are snails that are dead and not removed it will foul the water and ammonia will spike.

04/20/2010, 11:58 PM	#17
blennydude Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Northern, MI Posts: 111	I think hermits get a bad rap for killing snails. They take the shells from dead snails then become a scapegoat. __________________ When I see people post "0" nitrates, my bs meter blows up. Current Tank Info: 65 gal. mixed reef. 29 gal oceanic bio cube

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