Lets talk about sump flow

[AD87]

Lets have an open discussion on what is the preferred turn over rate for a sump and why. Mechanical filtration vs Natural, Fuge vs None, ect for the reasons behind.


Okay so what’s wrong with having a sump flow of say 10-20 times the volume of your tank.

[tkeracer619]

I run a dart for a return on a 360. With head I am getting around 3000gph. If I had a hammerhead (5000gph) for a return I would need a much better bubble trap and a separate room for the sump. My drains would be able to handle it no problem but I would probably need to run a bag on the drain 24/7.

Trying to push a ton of flow through drains that can't easily handle it is not a good idea. Lots of noise and clogging risks.

[AD87]

Correct but if you run a bean style overflow you wont have an issue with noise or bubbles plus you will have a emergecy drain just in case.

[username in use]

You still need time to dissipate any bubbles that come out of a skimmer, and the faster water spills over a baffle, the more bubbles it will produce as it falls to the next level.

It all just reaches a point of diminishing returns. The question is why would you want to flow more than is necessary through your sump? If 3,000gph gets the job done and the tank stays clean and clear and everything is growing well, then why spend the extra on electricity and pumps to get 5-6,000gph?

[AD87]

Your right if someone already has a system setup. But this is more for design purposes for an intial setup from scratch or anyone that wants to get rid of any powerheads in the tank.

Good point on the micro bubbles but a filter sock will take care of that after the output of the skimmer.

[username in use]

Originally Posted by AD87

Good point on the micro bubbles but a filter sock will take care of that after the output of the skimmer.

But not if the flow over the baffle into the return section creates more bubbles.

And if you want to eliminate powerheads, you are better off designing a good closed loop than trying to push and extra few thousand gph through a sump.

[Bern Mac]

So I'm in the process of plumbing my 1st reef tank after 10 years of some poking around and researching. Initially I wanted to depend on 1 pump for flow.

That idea got rejected because of the fact that:
- Directing and controling flow would be a big challenge
- I plan to have a fuge... from what I've read there needs to be a nice, steady and slow flow for the nutrients to be absorbed and its critters to thrive in somewhat of a "tidepool" environment.
- Also in case of catastrophy a leak at a spead of say 7000 gph would be greater than 1 at 900 gph.

All in all there all probably many options to "control" the risk factor, as well, as to moderate flow, it just seems that the more of these "add ons" the more things can just go wrong, tougher to control, understand and thus more $$$$.

My 2 cents

[username in use]

Originally Posted by Bern Mac

All in all there all probably many options to "control" the risk factor, as well, as to moderate flow, it just seems that the more of these "add ons" the more things can just go wrong

Yes, but if your only pump goes down, your in trouble. If one of 3 or 4 powerheads goes down, you have some time to fix things. Even if your return pump goes down, you have powerheads or a closed loop to keep things alive while you get another pump.

[Bern Mac]

Username Josh...

I agree... I'm going with 1 pump for my return and a few Koralias for flow that I will eventually upgrade to the "next best thing"...

For my system I will end up spending initially about $400 for pump & powerheads. I would easily spend 3X that amount if I wanted to only use 1 pump not to mention all theplumbing fixtures and bells and wistles that I would want to add.

[JimmyK]

So many options...As you state the type of filtration, reactors, fuge all directly affect flow. personally I am of the school of thought that I want the least amount of flow required through my sump. My set-up requires a decnt amount of flow. I have a 110 gallon refugium (light 24/7 algae rubble), 90 gallon rock refugium (no light) 120 gallon sump and a 120 display. I like to feed heavy and I skim heavy..Ideally my return from my display is slightly less than the skimmer rating. I try to keep my sump as clean as possible with low flow so that I can remove nasties from the sump and not run them back through my system. Everything really depends on your filtartion methods. Too me, more flow through sump than skimmer can handle is a wasted. I am sure there are many ways but just my .02 cents....

[stingythingy45]

Personally,I see no reason to rush water through a system.I pump up from the basement at about 11 ft. of head pressure and I'm sure that slows my Mak 4 pump down considerably.In my case low flow works as I have a recirc. skimmer plumbed into my overflow as well as the refugium splitting off from it.The cheato grows very well in the refugium under these conditions.And the skimmer pulls plenty of gunk from the water.
I have a filter sock after the recirc skimmer just to catch any debris that might make it through there....not for micro-bubble problems.

[SHOmuchFUN]

I plan on using either a snapper or a dart for a return for my 180gal tank. I am using an overflow kit designed for use with the DART. It has 2x 2" bulkhead drains and should be able to handle the flow with head.

If you have a sump large enough to handle the rush of water, why not? Turnover is not going to be an issue if you have a properly designed drain/sump. You'll want to make sure you have some decently spaced baffles. Both for the drain, and for after the skimmer.

As return pumps go, it's hard to beat reeflo pumps. For 150 watts, why go with a pump that flows less, just because it's increasing your turnover. I'd rather throttle the pump down, or design a sump that can handle it.

[The Punisher]

I would have to agree with the last statement. For a properly designed and built sump, high flow won't hurt anything. Now, to me, a properly built sump will not have a fuge incorporated into it unless there's a way to have separate flow rates through the fuge and the sump. With higher flow rates through your sump, you're getting more water from your tank down to your sump, where all the filtration and water "cleaning" stuff is, and to me, the more water that gets down there to that stuff, the better.

[mnellis3023]

My only thing to add is that increased flow through the sump will prevent detritus to build up between baffles and other commonly dead spots. I have tried both, the minimum required and then the maximum I could push through it. It always seams that the sump with the minimum I had to add a powerhead to prevent dead spots. However, with the sump I had over 3500gph through flow, I had no detritus build up.

Just my 2 cents

[The Punisher]

And I would assume with a low flow rate from your tank to your sump, you also had detritus build up in your display tank. That's why it seems to me that the more flow from main tank to the sump, the more that overall detritus in the system gets pulled down to the sump, where it gets removed.

[BFG]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1870734