Coloring up Carpets

[Hellaenergy]

I don't know if this is the right forum for this question but here goes. Does anyone have any tips to coloring up a carpet anemone? I have some blue carpet anemones that I would like to color up if possible. Here's a pic of all three of them:



As you can see the one on the left is a lot bluer the one on the right. The one on the bottom right is a little browner than the one on the left. I'm wondering if I can pump up the the blue in all of them. Any tips or suggestions are welcome.

[Toddrtrex]

How long have you had them?

What size tank?

What lights do you have? What lights were they under.

BTW -- They are "gigs" (( Stichodactyla gigantea ))

[Hellaenergy]

Interesting on the identification... They were sold to me as "Bright Blue Japanese Blue Carpet Anemones". Right now I have them in a 40B quarantine tank with 2 Actinic and 2 daylights. I believe the were under 10k MH before I received them. I've had them for about three weeks.

[Toddrtrex]

That is an interesting name for them, but is just another "common" name -- one that I have never heard before.

What type of bulbs, and what wattage?

How many are in that tank? What are you using for filtration?

[Hellaenergy]

Sorry It's late

T5's 39W

There are three in the tank.

Filtration includes:

HOB Skimmer
Fluidized Sand Bed Reactor
HOB Filter
1 Piece of Live Rock
Carbon Dosing
Turkey Baster

Daily top off

25% Water change a week.

I also have a power head in there creating substantial flow. The tank is bare bottom.

[COreefer]

t5 not strong enough for Gigantea. Also your tank seems to be lacking the necessary requirements to keep anemones. For the bio load of those anemones your filtration is significantly lacking IMO. I would say to ramp up feedings but that may crash your tank.

[Hellaenergy]

Just to be clear this is not a permanent tank. It's a fully cycled quarantine tank. Water parameters are stable. Feeding has not been heavy though. Any access food is removed with a turkey baster. The anemones also have several juvenile clown fish hosting them. They seem to be healthy and responsive to the clowns.

So 4 x 39W t5's (12hrs day) at that distance isn't strong enough? Here I was thinking that it was too much. What would you suggest I feed them and at what amount and interval? I've been feeding them PE Mysis once every other day.

[jonnybravo22]

you may find this thread helpful

http://www.reefcentral.org/forums/sh....php?t=1795418

[elegance coral]

I personally think it's a mistake to quarantine anemones. Adjusting to new environments can be very stressful on these animals. Even deadly. Adding a quarantine tank just adds one more system they need to acclimate to.

With that said, it can be difficult to bring the color back in these anemones while they're in a mixed reef. If you treat the water to encourage zooxanthellae growth, and slowly increase lighting, you can cook other corals in the system. I just cooked a monti cap, meteor shower frag, and an elegance, while trying to color up a gigantea. It's a delicate balancing act, and you often don't know a coral is in trouble until after damage has been done.

As far as lighting is concerned, gigantea can be very shallow water anemones. My gigantea is in a 40 breeder with two 250W 14K MH's in luminarc reflectors. The bottom of the reflectors are about 10" above the water. I run them 12 hours a day. Everyone seems happy with these lights, LPS, SPS, and other anemones, except the gigantea. I'm trying to figure out how to increase the lighting for the gigantea, without cooking everyone else in such a small tank. If the gigantea had a full complement of zooxanthellae, this probably wouldn't be an issue.

So......... Maybe......... quarantining in this situation isn't a horrible idea. IF, you are prepared to quarantine for a long period of time, and have the ability to adjust parameters, especially lighting.

[elegance coral]

I just read my post again. That wasn't helpful at all, was it? I should really start having my coffee BEFORE posting online.

[WDLV]

Originally Posted by elegance coral

I personally think it's a mistake to quarantine anemones. Adjusting to new environments can be very stressful on these animals. Even deadly. Adding a quarantine tank just adds one more system they need to acclimate to.

Having become something of a quarrantine Nazi in the last couple years, this statement makes my hair stand on end. That said, it does bring up and excellent point. I was thinking about this fact about a week ago. I think there is a simple solution to this dilemma.

Quarrantine the anemone in the tank that will become its permanent home BEFORE adding fish. Most people don't like nems that large in their reefs with all their prized corals anyway. Plan ahead to keep these animals and you can avoid both the problems of quarrantining them as well as the problems of repetitive transport and re-acclimation.

To answer the OP's question, it's the same answer for anemones as it is for other cnidarians. The more blue light you use without a major sacrifice in PAR the more color you will get.

When you look at the lighting spectrum...

This side equals growth - ROYGBIV - This side equals coloration.

[COreefer]

Originally Posted by WDLV

Having become something of a quarrantine Nazi in the last couple years, this statement makes my hair stand on end. That said, it does bring up and excellent point. I was thinking about this fact about a week ago. I think there is a simple solution to this dilemma.

Quarrantine the anemone in the tank that will become its permanent home BEFORE adding fish. Most people don't like nems that large in their reefs with all their prized corals anyway. Plan ahead to keep these animals and you can avoid both the problems of quarrantining them as well as the problems of repetitive transport and re-acclimation.

To answer the OP's question, it's the same answer for anemones as it is for other cnidarians. The more blue light you use without a major sacrifice in PAR the more color you will get.

When you look at the lighting spectrum...

This side equals growth - ROYGBIV - This side equals coloration.

What you suggest just isn't practical for most hobbyist...a vast majority of the tanks being set up have no idea of what they will add. New hobbyist generally don't even consider this. I think we have to step out of our experiences a little more and look at things from a more holistic approach. In the case of a gigantea the more stable the tank the better. I don't know too many systems that are going to go 6 months with nothing but rock in anticipation of an anemone. This is the extreme exception rather than any rule. Its just not practical.

BTW, EC...you have enough light for a gigantea...perhaps more than enough light.

OP, get those gigs out of a qt and into permanent homes. QT will kill them.

[COreefer]

This side equals growth - ROYGBIV - This side equals coloration.

BTW, this isn't necessarily true either with bleached anemone. To color up it has to regain its zooxanthelle. A higher K bulb will bring out the color that is there but if bleached a higher K bulb is not optimal. If the anemone is drab in color, sure a higher K bulb could help, but not for bleaching.

[criccio]

FWIW, the nem on the right looks like it may be a S. haddoni. But I couldn't tell you for sure without better pics.

[WDLV]

Originally Posted by COreefer

What you suggest just isn't practical for most hobbyist...a vast majority of the tanks being set up have no idea of what they will add. New hobbyist generally don't even consider this. I think we have to step out of our experiences a little more and look at things from a more holistic approach. In the case of a gigantea the more stable the tank the better. I don't know too many systems that are going to go 6 months with nothing but rock in anticipation of an anemone. This is the extreme exception rather than any rule. Its just not practical.

BTW, EC...you have enough light for a gigantea...perhaps more than enough light.

OP, get those gigs out of a qt and into permanent homes. QT will kill them.

No what I suggested in the last post is not practical for most hobbyists but does help explain why they fail. If you don't know the destination, how do you plan to get there?
Quarrantine is not practical for most hobbyists but then neither is ripping one's whole system apart trying to catch and treat his fish because his new gigantea arrived to him after having been housed in a system with diseased fish.
'An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.'

Given info I've read in some of the great gigantea threads I've seen in the last couple months, I would agree that lighting should be started off being lower anyhow.

Originally Posted by COreefer

BTW, this isn't necessarily true either with bleached anemone. To color up it has to regain its zooxanthelle. A higher K bulb will bring out the color that is there but if bleached a higher K bulb is not optimal. If the anemone is drab in color, sure a higher K bulb could help, but not for bleaching.

I do not disagree... as I mentioned above, you want to get that blue spectrum WITHOUT sacrificing PAR. No one bulb on the market does this. It's a balancing act. I think the best way to do this is to suppliment. One way might be 6.5KK with actinic VHO/PCF/T-5.
Also fairly new to the market is a reflector that can house two DE bulbs at once. One could put a 6.5KK bulb and a 20KK bulb in that housing to create a situation where he could maximize PAR and blue/violet spectrum.
I don't necessarily think this should be done during quarrantine. Given that he's using T-5 on his quarrantine I imagine the DT will be pretty good in terms of lighting. That quarrantine system is equal to or better than many of the hobbyists' display systems out there.

I do think that the OP is doing the best he can do and doing it in the most responsible way possible but with a sensitive species like S. gigantea it will be a craps shoot no matter what method you employ. If there are no fish in the system (which is clearly not the case) there is no reason that the filtration he listed should not suffice for the duration of quarrantine. In other words they should be quarrantined separately.

[WDLV]

Originally Posted by criccio

FWIW, the nem on the right looks like it may be a S. haddoni. But I couldn't tell you for sure without better pics.

Good catch, if that's the case, separating them into different systems is probably the best thing you can do.

[Hellaenergy]

Originally Posted by criccio

FWIW, the nem on the right looks like it may be a S. haddoni. But I couldn't tell you for sure without better pics.

Here's another picture of that one:

[Hellaenergy]

I'd like to thank everyone so far for your input. Keep it coming.

[COreefer]

Originally Posted by Hellaenergy

Here's another picture of that one:

Gigantea...no haddonis in either of your pics.

BTW, Walt, we are not talking about diseased fish or the benefits of QT'ing for fish disease, we are discussing undue stress of qt'ing anemones. Anemones are very delicate creatures and the sooner they settle, the higher the likelihood of success, especially a species like S. Gigantea..

[Hellaenergy]

Okay so the consensus seems to be that these carpets are stressed. How does one tell that they are happy and healthy other than them not dying? My observations with their behaviour would lead me to believe they are not completely unhappy. They take food. The clowns are able to manipulate them. Their structure is solid (not limp). I do get that when they decline it can be fast, though.

Also, I haven't heard any comments on the fact that I don't have a sand bottom. Could not having a sand or rocky bottom be stressing these carpets out? They have stayed in one spot solid together since I've introduced them to the tank. What i'm trying to say is that they do not seem discontent with their location.

[criccio]

Nope, looks like it's an S. gigantea.

May I ask what they're permanent homes specs are?

[COreefer]

No what I suggested in the last post is not practical for most hobbyists but does help explain why they fail.

the qt crowd annoy the crap out of me and this is why. I have yet to meet a person who entered the reefkeeping hobby that failed because they did not QT and I know a lot of reef keepers. You are getting on your qt soap box at the wrong time and in the wrong place.

[COreefer]

Originally Posted by Hellaenergy

Okay so the consensus seems to be that these carpets are stressed. How does one tell that they are happy and healthy other than them not dying? My observations with their behaviour would lead me to believe they are not completely unhappy. They take food. The clowns are able to manipulate them. Their structure is solid (not limp). I do get that when they decline it can be fast, though.

Also, I haven't heard any comments on the fact that I don't have a sand bottom. Could not having a sand or rocky bottom be stressing these carpets out? They have stayed in one spot solid together since I've introduced them to the tank. What i'm trying to say is that they do not seem discontent with their location.

The only way you are going to be able to determine the health of these animals will be to get them into an established display. the sand issue is not that important at S. Gigantea tend to prefer the rockwork. That small of a tank, with that heavy of a bioload is enough tpo make your anemones unhealthy or appear unhealthy.

[Hellaenergy]

Originally Posted by criccio

May I ask what they're permanent homes specs are?

That is still being determined. I will not be keeping all of them. At least two will be distributed to other hobbyists. That is if they are healthy and happy enough to do so.

In short, the one I was planning on keeping was most likely going go in a 120g mixed reef with 8 x T5 54W lighting. But now with the input I've received here I'm rethinking that whole idea.

[Hellaenergy]

Originally Posted by COreefer

The only way you are going to be able to determine the health of these animals will be to get them into an established display. the sand issue is not that important at S. Gigantea tend to prefer the rockwork. That small of a tank, with that heavy of a bioload is enough tpo make your anemones unhealthy or appear unhealthy.

Thanks for the reply but that still does not tell me specifically how you determine if they are in fact healthy. So the question still stands.