Help! Ozone generation

annabanana · 05/10/2010, 01:26 AM

Hi - my name is Anna, this is my 1st post, and this is a question about setting up ozone generators.

Let me explain my situation:
I'm a graduate student and as a part of my research project, I need to set up an aquarium, including installation of an ozone generator. I am all on my own with this! No one in my lab has any experience working with aquariums and there are no nearby aquarium shops which work with ozone or carry their equipment -- somebody suggested that I post something online to solicit advice for how to go about doing this.

This is a freshwater system. The fish I am working with are rainbow trout. I have a couple of pieces of equipment: a Red Sea 200 plus ozone generator, and a nice air dryer. The lab I am working in has an air output valve--I am assuming that using ambient air is sufficient and that I won't need an air pump.

I don't own:
- an ORP electrode (which I am assuming I can use a voltmeter with and that it hooks right up to the generator (Red Sea Plus) fairly simply??)
- a contact chamber or any form of pump to circulate water through the contact chamber and into the aquarium.
- Also - activated carbon to filter the ozone? How does this work?

Well, thank you for reading this! I've been looking around on ReefCentral and have found some helpful information, but I'm just hoping to get some dialogue going so I can understand this better. If you have any input, please, I would love to hear it!

Anna

Frick-n-Frags · 05/10/2010, 09:42 AM

reefs are saltwater (hold off on the DUH! lol...let me continue..)

saltwater is thick viscous stuff compared to freshwater and it enables certain technology to be used that you cant use in fresh water(or not nearly as effectively and as easily) which takes advantage of the greater surface tension to make superfine bubbles that grab hydrophobic proteins and small particulates for removal.

most reefers have this doodad called a foam fractionator(we call them skimmers which really doesnt mean anything). the necessary air injection makes it a perfect place to also inject ozone, and the water is contained so that the effluent may be passed through an ozone filter(ie carbon).
many had(i say had=old tech) a place for carbon to filter the air escaping too.

so, the reefers injected ozone into their skimmers

now, ozone isnt used too much around here

so,how did you plan on monitoring the effects/levels of ozone in the system with no containment(carbon filters of the air and effluent water) or effects measurement(like ORP testing?). you certainly seem aware of all the things you need already.

carbon ADsorbs ozone, that's how that works, both from the water and the air.

maybe you can find an old red sea berlin skimmer(no, you definitely can find them..nobody likes them heh.but you wont be skimming) to use as your ozone reactor chamber. you put carbon in the chamber that is ABOVE the collection cup area to filter the air, and run the 2 effluent hoses through a carbon chamber on the way back to the main water column

hook the ozone to the venturi air supply and open the venturi all the way or even drill out the acceleration restiction and use an air pump ahead of the ozone generator

do not used air compressor air unless it is really well filtered.

-----
edit: you also need a powerhead(pump) to push the water through the skimmer and get the venturi effect going(if not using extra air pump to feed venturi intake)
---------

i hope this helps. have fun with your project.

check out the "tank of the months" while you are here

..give up freshwater forever 8O heh

annabanana · 05/10/2010, 01:45 PM

Thank you, Frick-n-Frags -- this is quite helpful!

Well now, maybe this is an obvious question, but I am wondering: do I need a "reaction chamber" for this system at all? Can I bypass this step completely and is it completely taboo to bubble ozonated water directly into the system simply using an airstone straight from the generator? Admittedly, this is not a marine system so I am not troubled by the same water conditions, etc.

I am planning on monitoring ORP through the controller on the Red Sea generator, using a Milwaukee Instruments ORP electrode. I am also going to check residual ozone concentrations in the water using ozone test strips or possibly through a titration with sodium thiosulfate (though this is quite complicated and I am not sure it would be worth the effort.) I have noticed some basic O3 chemical kits online and might give that a shot.

Thanks!
Anna

PS - I have been lurking all over marine aquarist websites and it does impress me!

Frick-n-Frags · 05/12/2010, 06:10 AM

i have no idea what level of O3 starts to burn fish gills. but fish gills are very tender compared to their scales/fins etc. maybe that already has been documented somewhere, which should define your upper level target limits for you.
ozone basically works like chlorox minus the smell. as it strips other molecules, it becomes depleted. the ORP levels can also tell you if you have excess oxidizer by being very high

in salt systems 400+ was about the highest you wanted to take it and 200- was sludgewater heh (me=clueless regarding fresh water)

and, one of the big rules around here is: "if you cant test for it, dont dose it", but it sounds like you are putting your feedback mechanism in place (O3 testing)

so, yeah, as you noticed, the reaction chamber idea is for the containment of the O3 rich water. you maybe could rig one out of stuff laying around the lab.
however it is done, you just need to run the outflowing air and water through carbon.

also, O3 isnt really a good thing to breath on a constant basis, it tears up your lung tissue. I must admit though, i love the smell of ozone

Chris27 · 05/12/2010, 07:41 AM

Read this article - Randy is an accomplished chemist, and very much into the aquarium hobby.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php

Basically, you need to determine what OPR you want, and then use the monitor / controller to cycle the generator on/off as required to keep the ORP in the desired range. A delivery chamber is the safest way of doing things, an acrylic (very resistant to ozone unlike PVC) chamber that water and ozone can be pumped into and out will make things easy.

05/10/2010, 01:26 AM	#1
annabanana Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7	Help! Ozone generation Hi - my name is Anna, this is my 1st post, and this is a question about setting up ozone generators. Let me explain my situation: I'm a graduate student and as a part of my research project, I need to set up an aquarium, including installation of an ozone generator. I am all on my own with this! No one in my lab has any experience working with aquariums and there are no nearby aquarium shops which work with ozone or carry their equipment -- somebody suggested that I post something online to solicit advice for how to go about doing this. This is a freshwater system. The fish I am working with are rainbow trout. I have a couple of pieces of equipment: a Red Sea 200 plus ozone generator, and a nice air dryer. The lab I am working in has an air output valve--I am assuming that using ambient air is sufficient and that I won't need an air pump. I don't own: - an ORP electrode (which I am assuming I can use a voltmeter with and that it hooks right up to the generator (Red Sea Plus) fairly simply??) - a contact chamber or any form of pump to circulate water through the contact chamber and into the aquarium. - Also - activated carbon to filter the ozone? How does this work? Well, thank you for reading this! I've been looking around on ReefCentral and have found some helpful information, but I'm just hoping to get some dialogue going so I can understand this better. If you have any input, please, I would love to hear it! Anna

05/10/2010, 09:42 AM	#2
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	reefs are saltwater (hold off on the DUH! lol...let me continue..) saltwater is thick viscous stuff compared to freshwater and it enables certain technology to be used that you cant use in fresh water(or not nearly as effectively and as easily) which takes advantage of the greater surface tension to make superfine bubbles that grab hydrophobic proteins and small particulates for removal. most reefers have this doodad called a foam fractionator(we call them skimmers which really doesnt mean anything). the necessary air injection makes it a perfect place to also inject ozone, and the water is contained so that the effluent may be passed through an ozone filter(ie carbon). many had(i say had=old tech) a place for carbon to filter the air escaping too. so, the reefers injected ozone into their skimmers now, ozone isnt used too much around here so,how did you plan on monitoring the effects/levels of ozone in the system with no containment(carbon filters of the air and effluent water) or effects measurement(like ORP testing?). you certainly seem aware of all the things you need already. carbon ADsorbs ozone, that's how that works, both from the water and the air. maybe you can find an old red sea berlin skimmer(no, you definitely can find them..nobody likes them heh.but you wont be skimming) to use as your ozone reactor chamber. you put carbon in the chamber that is ABOVE the collection cup area to filter the air, and run the 2 effluent hoses through a carbon chamber on the way back to the main water column hook the ozone to the venturi air supply and open the venturi all the way or even drill out the acceleration restiction and use an air pump ahead of the ozone generator do not used air compressor air unless it is really well filtered. ----- edit: you also need a powerhead(pump) to push the water through the skimmer and get the venturi effect going(if not using extra air pump to feed venturi intake) --------- i hope this helps. have fun with your project. check out the "tank of the months" while you are here ..give up freshwater forever 8O heh __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB Last edited by Frick-n-Frags; 05/10/2010 at 09:52 AM.

05/12/2010, 06:10 AM	#4
Frick-n-Frags Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: north central OH Posts: 10,740	i have no idea what level of O3 starts to burn fish gills. but fish gills are very tender compared to their scales/fins etc. maybe that already has been documented somewhere, which should define your upper level target limits for you. ozone basically works like chlorox minus the smell. as it strips other molecules, it becomes depleted. the ORP levels can also tell you if you have excess oxidizer by being very high in salt systems 400+ was about the highest you wanted to take it and 200- was sludgewater heh (me=clueless regarding fresh water) and, one of the big rules around here is: "if you cant test for it, dont dose it", but it sounds like you are putting your feedback mechanism in place (O3 testing) so, yeah, as you noticed, the reaction chamber idea is for the containment of the O3 rich water. you maybe could rig one out of stuff laying around the lab. however it is done, you just need to run the outflowing air and water through carbon. also, O3 isnt really a good thing to breath on a constant basis, it tears up your lung tissue. I must admit though, i love the smell of ozone __________________ Only Dead fish swim with the current. Current Tank Info: 2 50 gal tanks, sump, still BB

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05/10/2010, 01:45 PM	#3
annabanana Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 7	Thank you, Frick-n-Frags -- this is quite helpful! Well now, maybe this is an obvious question, but I am wondering: do I need a "reaction chamber" for this system at all? Can I bypass this step completely and is it completely taboo to bubble ozonated water directly into the system simply using an airstone straight from the generator? Admittedly, this is not a marine system so I am not troubled by the same water conditions, etc. I am planning on monitoring ORP through the controller on the Red Sea generator, using a Milwaukee Instruments ORP electrode. I am also going to check residual ozone concentrations in the water using ozone test strips or possibly through a titration with sodium thiosulfate (though this is quite complicated and I am not sure it would be worth the effort.) I have noticed some basic O3 chemical kits online and might give that a shot. Thanks! Anna PS - I have been lurking all over marine aquarist websites and it does impress me!

05/12/2010, 07:41 AM	#5
Chris27 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Posts: 4,452	Read this article - Randy is an accomplished chemist, and very much into the aquarium hobby. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-05/rhf/index.php Basically, you need to determine what OPR you want, and then use the monitor / controller to cycle the generator on/off as required to keep the ORP in the desired range. A delivery chamber is the safest way of doing things, an acrylic (very resistant to ozone unlike PVC) chamber that water and ozone can be pumped into and out will make things easy.