Who Doesn't Do Water Changes

[pitmindi]

Hi, I am wondering if there are many (or any) people who are able to have a successful reef tank without water changes, or with an insignificant amount of water changes???? My 90 gal tank is only 4 months old. I have 2 clownfish and 2 anthias and a dsb. I feed 1 cube of mysis for the anthias, and a few pellets for the clownfish daily, and phytoplankton (either DT's or Kent phytofeast) about 5 times a week, plus coral food(alternating with oysterfeast, rotifeast, snow, cyclopeeze, etc) a couple times a week. I have the ecosystem where the display tank overflows into a refugium below, which has caulerpa (with 24/7 lighting) and miracle mud and plastic bioballs and then returns to the main tank. I do not have a protein skimmer. Also, I use tap water!!! I have LPS corals which are mostly frogspawn, hammers, zoa's and bubble corals. According to the LFS where I bought the tank, this type of system does not need water changes, and in fact frequent water changes would be detrimental. That is the only reason that I got into saltwater tanks. I knew that I didn't want to perform saltwater changes. I have freshwater tanks and enjoy the water changes for those tanks, with is easy with a python and tap water, but a to change saltwater is very time consuming. I tried it once...and that was enough for me!

[snarkes]

With all the food you're putting into that tank... and without a skimmer... you got into the wrong hobby. Water changes are a necessary evil.

[mullinsd2]

Since you don't have a good way of exporting nutrients (a skimmer) you should do water changes. I don't see how using tap water is helping. I thought tap water could be detrimental to the system if anything at all ( algae issues).

[JAStoodz]

Powerhead in mixing container, add salt and let mix.

Pump out amount of water
Pump in new mixed saltwater

It is really not very labor intensive at all and takes me maybe 15 minutes to do a 55gal water change.

[outy]

if you dont like mixing salt then this hobby probably inst for you.

it ca be done and you can get away with it for a long time but it catches up with you and when it does the shows over.

first if you stay in the hobby you need to buy a ro/di unit PERIOD!

without water changes its better to overskim, a fuge will work but you had better be sure your fuge is keeping up with your bioload.

you dont know at this point whats keeping up as it takes time for things to build up but i suspect you will see some GHA pretty soon and thats the first sign your in to deep.

ditch the bio balls there useless in a reef tank and are a nitrate manufacturing company.

i haveout 135g total volume with a 100g display and a 50g bb sump and i made it 4 years, the last year the tank was in decline. i only fed 1 cube almost daily and have a skimmer rated for a 300g tank, cleaned detritus out of sump at times and grew chaeto slowly.

despite my best efforts and lazy husbandry its just a slow ticking time bomb and your riding the train

[jwoyshnar]

A local pet store here is pushing a product called aqua bella. It alledgedly guarantees no water changes for 1year. Its a series of bacteria additions from what I'm told. I won't try it as I love doing water changes. Everything just seems so much healthier.

[92awdGSX]

That seems like a pretty heavy feeding schedule. I would think water changes are a must.

[flying_dutchman]

Water changes are recommended. it's a good way of nutrient export. Unless your tank is filled with macro algae water changes are a must.
got2envy has a very nice macro algae dominated reef without any water changes, check it out:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1812338

first if you stay in the hobby you need to buy a ro/di unit PERIOD!

I know of plenty people that are able to keep reef tanks with tap water (dechlorinated of course), if your local water is good enough it's possible.

i suspect you will see some GHA pretty soon and thats the first sign your in to deep.

!?
imo some algae is just natural, on every single reef there is algae, how do you think all the urchins, tangs etc. are able to survive? Some algae is not a bad thing an not "a sign your in to deep"

A local pet store here is pushing a product called aqua bella. It alledgedly guarantees no water changes for 1year. Its a series of bacteria additions from what I'm told. I won't try it as I love doing water changes. Everything just seems so much healthier.

Properly BS... If it's a bacteria addition, a skimmer is a must.

[outy]

Originally Posted by flying_dutchman

Water changes are recommended. it's a good way of nutrient export. Unless your tank is filled with macro algae water changes are a must.
got2envy has a very nice macro algae dominated reef without any water changes, check it out:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1812338



I know of plenty people that are able to keep reef tanks with tap water (dechlorinated of course), if your local water is good enough it's possible.


!?
imo some algae is just natural, on every single reef there is algae, how do you think all the urchins, tangs etc. are able to survive? Some algae is not a bad thing an not "a sign your in to deep"


Properly BS... If it's a bacteria addition, a skimmer is a must.

stick around and play in the hobby a little longer and youll understand the answers I posted.

ro/di is a must theres no arguement that tap water is wrong and should not be used at all. You can get away with it for about a year or two after that you will never get rid of your algea infestation and you will see a major decline in your tanks health. here we try and help new people to the hobby not give bad advise.

I have the lowest PPM tap water I have ever seen and im telling you there is a time limit before your tank goes south. if your not testing PPM then your already on a loosing track. im not talking short term here, anyone can set up a tank with tap water for a while. Long term ro/di is a must


im sorry again your very wrong GHA in a tank is a major sign you dont know what your doing and your tank is on a slow slide due to poor water quality. There is no arguement here unless you talking about a fuge filled with macro.

every time you see GHA it is only due to lack of knowledge and or lazy hubandry because you have let your water quality slide,,, and in fact your in over your head yes "to deep"

the link you posted means absolulety nothing, that tank was set up this year, I just did some water changes in a heavily stocked 100g and the last time I did a water change was before that person joined this site.

im not a pro just someone who has made all the mistakes trying to cut corners as your suggesting and OP

[Garage1217]

From what you posted, I would never recommend a no water change tank. Under totally different tank keeping methods, I have kept a no water change system / micro water change system for about 2 years now. Lots of specifics on order for this to work however. With a DSB, the amount of food you are feeding & no quality skimmer... it sadly is just a matter of time for you.

[outy]

good point Garage

no matter how well your tank is set up I believe there is a time when it must be done anyway.

Its not "WHO DOESNT" its more of a question of how long before you should!

[sedor]

+1 I do 20G water changes monthly and that's not considered enough to most people. I don't need to spend time lecturing, but I will say I agree with most the posts above mine. With the way you have things set up, it will be impossible to have a "good looking" tank and eventually it will likely crash on you. No one said keeping a SW tank was easy. The only way to avoid doing the work is to hire someone to come in and do it for you.

Without a skimmer, I would highly recommend weekly water changes as it is going to be the only way your tank has to remove particulates from the water. Somehow, I think you knew this topic was gonna start a lecture

[mthomp]

water evaporation, topping off, no water changes. at some point wouldnt your fish end up just swimming in its own pee?

[AndyH5512]

If you dont like doing one large change, why not do 5 gallons a week? Even one large change only takes about 15 minutes. Mix the water the day before, and then change it the next day. Its easy, exports unwanted waste, and your fish and corals will look and feel healthier.

[outy]

Originally Posted by mthomp

water evaporation, topping off, no water changes. at some point wouldnt your fish end up just swimming in its own pee?

no because if "IF" being the key word, your tank is set up rite it takes care of its own bio load.

After a while you really do need to flush out the old stuff and get some new even if po3 and po4 and alk, ca, and ph are kept in check.

[hardiel]

I do a 10% WC once every 4 or 6 weeks. It's a 100G. I use RO water, I have a skimmer, GFO and a coil denitrator. i also have AZ nitrates (that I don't use).
Also a chiller. a trickle filter with No bioballs. Lots of live rock and 4'' sand bed. Lots of snails, hermits (red and blue) a sand drifter starfish and a peppermint shrimp.

SO far even the nitrates read 0. Of course I only have a yellow tang, a tomato clownfish and an evil yellowtail (nickamed Robert E Lee for his "sweet" personality) that have been with me for more than 6 years.

I dose calcium, alk and Mg. Also iodine and tracing elements. coralline is spreading everywhere. I understand that WC are necessary but the frequency and amount that i read here (not only in this thread) sometimes seem ridiculous to me. and you put your water parameters out of whack.

If you really need to do all these wc maybe your filtration is not the best setup or you have too many inhabitants. (who honors here the x inches of fish per x gallons of water?).

Now. We all have been into LFS. They have tanks and more tanks of fish. High rotation. some sick, etc. When have you seen them doing a wc? what do they do to keep everything on check?

PS.:Fished don't swim in their own pee. This is what bacteria is for. We also drink our own pee in the tap water.

[shrimphead]

my cat doesn't do water changes, mainly because it doesn't have arms or hands and it's a cat. lazy cat

[AndyH5512]

I see the LFS do water changes quite regularly. They do it two ways. One, each time they bag a coral or fish, water comes out. That has to be replenished. I also see them do regular changes after hours. That is typically when they will do them. That or before they open. Either way, I am not aware of any setups that are able to succeed for any extended period of time without a water change. It would be nice, but its not realistic.

[outy]

2 of the three do regular waterchanges and I catch them all the time.

the third watches it closely and does them when its needed simular to what ive been doing. [his SPS grows nicely] and he will buy all my extra frags as well

[khaosinc]

I don't tend to but then I have a bad habit of adding tanks to my system so its kinda the same effect. As for ro/di I think some systems can get away with it depending on your water source. Where I live the water was glacial melt a few hours ago and they don't use much in the way of treatment really. I have used tap water and not really seen an effect on my system. Should I, no. But its nice to know I can in an emergancy or whatever.

[b2d2t]

You have to do water changes its part of the deal, if you dont your tank will fail. Second Definitely buy a R/O system , it may cost a pretty penny but will be worth it.

[golfoo]

i have a 108 litres tank and i don't do water changes but i use a protein skimmer if not...i think it would be imposible....

[outy]

Originally Posted by golfoo

i have a 108 litres tank and i don't do water changes but i use a protein skimmer if not...i think it would be imposible....

you mean you havnt done one yet LOL dont worry its coming

[outy]

Originally Posted by khaosinc

I don't tend to but then I have a bad habit of adding tanks to my system so its kinda the same effect. As for ro/di I think some systems can get away with it depending on your water source. Where I live the water was glacial melt a few hours ago and they don't use much in the way of treatment really. I have used tap water and not really seen an effect on my system. Should I, no. But its nice to know I can in an emergancy or whatever.

some systems can get away with it for a while, thay cannot get away with it on a long term basis.

fish only Ya no problem

Reef not a chance for long term success and I dont know anyone who sets a tank up for just a year or two on purpose

[AndyH5512]

Outy, it seems like you may know a person or two from this thread who is setting a tank up for a year or two. LOL.