starting tank from scratch please help!

[keeganpsp]

alright so i just started researching reef tanks for the past 2 weeks, i've talked to alot of people at pet stores and all they wanna do is try and sell me a bunch of stuff i don't need and completely ignore most of my questions, so if you could help me with setting up my first tank it would be incredibly helpful

okay so i just bought a 55 gal. tank from my friend, and im completely clueless on how to set it up, do i need to have a sump system before i start mixing the water and adding live rock? what is the best combination of things for starting my tank to cycle? how long do i need wait before adding fish and coral? as i said before im completely clueless so if you could please help me out.

[thelittlereef]

Go slow and read. This is a good site to learn on. Start by adding water/salt and crushed coral. Then start to cycle your tank you can add the sump later if you don't have it yet but you need to have good water flow. Next you need to think about LR. Hope this helped you get started. Don't be shy to ask for some help on here there is alot good info on here use it.

[Palting]

Welcome to RC forums!!!

First, here is a link you will want to read through: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1031074 . It is EXACTLY where you are, setting up a 55 gal.

So, what do you have so far, aside from the 55 gal tank?

[keeganpsp]

yeah i've been reading up on on waterkeepers guide, i think its called reefkeeping 101, im only about 3 or 4 articles in and im finding out about alot of things i never knew before, thank you the help so far. i most def have ALOT of questions generally because i dont wanna spend a bunch of money for no reason and end up screwing something up that is relatively simple. i've had so many people recommend this site and i plan on sticking with it for plenty of years to come.

one question i have is the whole RO/DI filtration system? i understand that it purifies water as close as it can be, about 98%. however the local pet store i work for has a RO/DI filtration system that purifies their water and they sell it by the gallon so would it be alright for me to buy that and use it instead of filtering my own water?

and my second question is for starting my 55 gal. what are the basic components i need? i know i can wait to get a sump later but i generally planned on just having the tank, water, live sand, and live rock and just letting it sit for a few months and possibly adding a little bit of fish food and crabs just to increase the cycling process. is there anything else i need to do?

and thank you all again for all the help

[BloodyWelsh]

Definetly go slow, read, ask questions, and dont be afraid to be patient (which is the hardest part). I would recommend having your filtration set up before adding water, salt, rock and other equipment but isnt necessary to have it all hooked up before mixing your water. I find it easier to set up a wet/dry on an empty tank, mainly because if you need to move your stand or tank around to make items fit, it is much easier to do with an empty aquarium. Here is how I cycle all of my aquariums:

1.) Fill tank with saltwater
2.) Turn on filtration/Powerheads/heater(s)
3.) After running with only water for 48 hrs, remove a few gallons of water and add sand, live rock
4.) Wait for ammonia, nitrite to reach zero
5.) Once ammonia and nitrite reach zero, turn on lights
6.) After a few days with light, add hermit crabs and snails
7.) Once second ammonia, nitrite spike reaches zero, add a few fish
8.) slowly add more livestock

It is going to depend on the aquarium how long you will have to wait for the aquarium to be "fish ready". I would bank on at least 3 weeks before even considering adding livestock but it will vary from tank to tank.

If you have any further questions, browse the forums and the answers are probably there, if not, post again
Good luck and welcome to the hobby!!

[keeganpsp]

to palting.

the only things i have are the tank, a filter that my friend gave me that he had with the tank before (i believe its a 40 gal or 70 gal fluval filter), the hood with lights and the stand.

and thank you for the link i found everything on that page extremely helpful

[keeganpsp]

to bloodywelsh


yeah i've heard about the whole wet/dry filter thing, im gonna do some more research on it because i don't know too much, the only thing i know about them is how well they work in reef tanks. as i've said before i just got into the hobby and im completely clueless and i really do appreciate all of the help everyone is offering, if i didn't have yalls help i'd be absolutely nowhere.

thank you all for the kind welcome and every bit of the excellent advice and tips

[lisafoster]

1. set up a sand bed do not use crushed coral it is a nitrate factory . Add 1-2 pound live rock per gallon depending on how much you like.Add saltwater. Add some powerheads.You can cycle with or without lights but I would reccomend getting one.Start skimming after a a few weeks or you can wait a month. Do not do any water changes for the first month.I have run my 125 for 19 months without a sump I do 20 gallon water changes evry week. Do not add any livestock for a month. Stock cuc after this and add fish very slowly. While your tank is cycling read all the info available on this site.

[Dustin1300]

+ 1 on not using the crushed coral. Many will argue not to have a sand bet but aestecially a sand bet looks much nicer but can become troublesome with lots of flow should you go the SPS route later on...If you have the time/money to get the sump going right now I'd do so as it makes it easier when first setting up system. CPR makes a great overflow box if your tank is not reef ready. Keep coming with the questions and READ, READ, READ, and READ!

[lisafoster]

Do a 2inch sand bed just no cc. I would have done a sump but when I bought this set up I had no idea about reef ready stands so I have no room if I could do it over I would do a sump.

[keeganpsp]

yeah i don't know much about a crushed coral bed, i had planned on going with a live sand bed and i think im still gonna stick with that plan. ill go ahead and get my sump up and going for the tank so that way i wont have to do it later and it seems to be highly recommended for starting a tank.

now when i add the sand and live rock and saltwater do i need to have the filters and sump running at the same time or just wait until i start adding livestock? and also would it be a good idea to add some fish food and crabs just to increase the bacteria build up of the water?

im reading constantly and im always discovering new things, this is a major help.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Keegan, I read through your thread and want to address some concerns and answer some questions that haven't been answered yet.
First off
To Reef Central

however the local pet store i work for has a RO/DI filtration system that purifies their water and they sell it by the gallon so would it be alright for me to buy that and use it instead of filtering my own water?

You can definitely get your water from a fish store that uses their own RODI set up. But I would recommend that you purchase your own RODI just for the simple fact that you are going to be saving money in the long run. Melev calculated the price of what it would cost someone to purchase, maintain (replacing filters), and mix your own salt water. over the course of a year. it will end up costing you roughly $0.09 a gallon for salt water, I say roughly because every water company charges differently for water depending on location, and of course the type of salt mix you use.

I don't know what you pay for ssalt water at your LFS but I would be amazed if you pay less than $0.09 a gallon.

I know the up front cost of a new system and everything is going to set you back but it all works out in the long run. calculate what you would spend in salt water from an LFS and see how long it would take you to pay off a new RODI.

yeah I've heard about the whole wet/dry filter thing, im gonna do some more research on it because i don't know too much,

A wet dry system worked well in the salt water arena years ago before the advent of sumps and refugiums. It's not necessary to have bioballs in a salt water aquaria any more due to the simple fact that we utilize the live rock to do most of our biological filtration. No need for the wet/dry setup, they are mostly reserved for fresh water tanks now a days. I know you are wanting to start off right and not pay for things you don't need, this is one expense you can do without. Get yourself a 20 gallon tank and make your own sump/fuge for a fraction of what the wet/dry go for.

Here is a great site to answer all questions about sumps and fuges

1. set up a sand bed do not use crushed coral it is a nitrate factory

+1000
I was in an LFS the other day and over heard an employee say that no one uses sand these days, everyone uses crushed coral..... my first thought was he was trying to make a sale..... it's shameful. But yes use sand, better yet use live sand, it will aid in a more diverse bio-filtration. don't go more than 3 inches deep unless you fully understand deep sand beds (DSB) because they can turn toxic if you don't know what you're doing.

yeah i don't know much about a crushed coral bed, i had planned on going with a live sand bed and i think im still gonna stick with that plan. ill go ahead and get my sump up and going for the tank so that way i wont have to do it later and it seems to be highly recommended for starting a tank.

now when i add the sand and live rock and saltwater do i need to have the filters and sump running at the same time or just wait until i start adding livestock? and also would it be a good idea to add some fish food and crabs just to increase the bacteria build up of the water?

im reading constantly and im always discovering new things, this is a major help.

Yes have all your filters and power heads in place to get the water moving and filtering. Don't add any livestock until you have watched your ammonia rise and then fall to 0. Once that happens you can add a Clean Up Crew (CUC) consisting of an assortment of snails. once those are in place and are doing their job start adding your livestock.

Hopefully that helps and keep up the good work. I look forward to seeing some pics of your tank and reading more about your progress.

[Levito]

as for the RO system, I would say it's worth it to just go buy a system. If you get water from your LFS, it will likely cost $1/gallon. That's $55 to set up the tank, and $8 every time you want to do a water change. In 3 months, the $ you spent at the LFS for water will easily be over the $75-100 it costs to buy a used 75gpd RO water system off craigslist.

[lisafoster]

If I could run a sump I would if not just to hide my skimmer, to do top offs and grow cheato. My stand is not reef ready and I am not up for taking apart my 125. This is an expensive hobby invest the best you can buy otherwise down the road you will have to but better equiptment.

[keeganpsp]

to sisterlimonpot

thank you so much for the much needed assistance, you've answered alot of questions that i have had along with other people and the other answers i have have gotten.

yeah i def see your point with the whole RO/DI and thanks to levito too i've decided to go ahead and buy my own RO/DI filtration system. just as you and levito have said the LFS is pretty pricey with their mixes, a dollar a gal. for the mixed water that they have already run. honestly with yalls help i have def. decided that it would so much easier and greater to go ahead and buy a RO/DI.

alot of people have told me about how well a sump works, i have had a few people tell me about a wet dry system, but after researching the sumps i've decided that this is the best way to go.
by the way a friend recommended that site to me and it is going to be very helpful for me because the whole sump thing has me dumbfounded, so thank you for that as well

yeah i had always planned on going with live sand just because of the fact that it looks better and then after reading come to find out it helps out the filtration process and that had me sold on it right away.

okay im so glad to finally have that question answered, now that i know exactly what i need to do im going to start on everything tomorrow (monday) and ill take pictures and all and post them up to show the progress of the tank and how it is coming out

thank you for all the help. you have no idea how appreciative i am for it

[Sisterlimonpot]

thank you for all the help. you have no idea how appreciative i am for it

That makes it all worth it,
you're welcome.

[phenom5]

FWIW, as far as sand goes, Petco/ Petsmart has the best deal I've found. They have CaribSea Aragonite reef sand (the Petsmart by my house had 30lb bags for 25 bucks). It's about the same as you can find online, but without the shipping cost...unless the LFS you work at is going to give you a good deal. Most of the LFS in my area have a crazy mark up on sand.

Don't worry about getting live sand, just get some good aragonite, and you can seed it with your live rock, and a cup or two of sand from local reefers.

Getting your own RO/DI is definitely worth it. Bulk Reef Supply has good units, and has some awesome customer service. My RO/DI is probably the best investment I've made over the years for my tank, with my ATO coming in at a close second.

I would also recommend setting up your sump now. Absolutely worth it. I ran my first tank sumpless, and regretted it the whole time.

[keeganpsp]

Originally Posted by Sisterlimonpot

That makes it all worth it,
you're welcome.

well im glad that there are people out there that can help my with this type of thing

i plan on going to pick up my sump tank, protein skimmer, power heads, and last but not least a RO/DI filter tomorrow so i just need to understand a few more things a little bit better before i go out and pick up what i need.


However i have ran into another problem. that problem is that i have no idea about the whole sump tank thing, even though i have done alot of research over the past few weeks i have never been able to find the answer to the question what is the difference between sump tank gallons? now i have a 55 gal. tank does it matter if i want to buy a 40 gal sump TANK, or do i need to buy i bigger gal sump tank because i have a bigger gal aquarium?
Also is there any difference between protein skimmers? same as the sump tank, if i buy a 40 gal protein skimmer would it work just as well as a 70 gal protein skimmer?

alas the final question is about the filter. now when i bought this entire set up from my friend i got the 55 gal tank, the stand, hood, and filter. the problem in this part is the filter; he gave me a 40 gal. fluval filter, now does is that a decent filter for my tank or do i need to go out and pick up a bigger filter?

also what size RO/DI would be the best to pick up for a 55 gal?

thanks again,
keegan

[keeganpsp]

Phenom5,

that does sound like a pretty good mix of sand to go with, ill have to do some more research on it. what is aragonite? every time i see that word it throws me off, i have a basic concept of what it is but im still not entirely sure. the pet store i work at doesn't carry any live sand so im gonna talk to my manager and see if i can get some special ordered in for myself.

i plan on going to pick up my RO/DI tomorrow from how highly recommended it comes from everyone to people starting a reef tank. but what is your ATO?

[phenom5]

Originally Posted by keeganpsp

Phenom5,

that does sound like a pretty good mix of sand to go with, ill have to do some more research on it. what is aragonite? every time i see that word it throws me off, i have a basic concept of what it is but im still not entirely sure. the pet store i work at doesn't carry any live sand so im gonna talk to my manager and see if i can get some special ordered in for myself.

i plan on going to pick up my RO/DI tomorrow from how highly recommended it comes from everyone to people starting a reef tank. but what is your ATO?

Aragonite sand is a calcium carbonate sand. Good to use, opposed to "play sand" like you get at Home Depot/ Lowes/ etc that's usually silica based.


I got my ATO from Autotopoff.com. http://www.autotopoff.com/products/DS1/

That's the float switch I use, with a 5 gal bucket, and an old maxijet pump. I cannot imagine not having one on a tank to be honest. Worth every penny and then some.

[keeganpsp]

ah ha, i got yea well then it might be a great idea to get a good look at the mix of sand your using, ill def check it out.

yeah i checked out the site that ATO looks like a life saver, im def gonna invest in one of those things.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Yep, aragonite helps in PH buffering as well as it works in breaking down (very slowly) and releasing the calcium carbonate back into your system which is very beneficial for your tank.

I agree as well that an ATO is a great investment. If you're handy you can make your own for pennies. I made one that cost less than $50 and it has been working for a year with 0 problems. Check out my build thread, especially this page.

[Sisterlimonpot]

Sorry, it actually started on this page

[keeganpsp]

well can you help me with the questions i had about the diffence in sump sizes, and the 40 gal filter question?

[Sisterlimonpot]

As far as the sump goes, as long as you can house all your equipment and it meets your needs. Ie. You have to have enough reserves to allow for a power outage. When the power goes out some of the water in the display tank is going to settle in the sump. So you have to make sure your sump can handle that. A 40 gallon sump for a 55 gallon tank is an awesome setup because now you will have more water volume which will aid in tank stability.

Is 40 gallons necessary? Absolutely not, a normal size sump for a 55 is usually 20 gallons or so (going back to the top about meeting your needs). But if you can set a 40 under the tank then I say,”Go for it!”

Just to put things into perspective, my 125 has a 30 gallon sump/fuge and it works really well.