Why are my Stars dying?

[strike2867]

I have a 90 with a 30 gallon sump and an Octopus XP 2000 skimmer. The tank was set up around 2 months ago. Everything was going fine, good growth. Now my 18 inch carpet anemone has collapsed into a 6 inch unhappy one that looks almost dead. The serpent stars are crawling out of the rocks and dying on the sand. An orange linkia also looks like it is dying on the sand. I have done no major changes. I'm using an RO/DI unit.

The parameters are:
0 nitrates
0 nitrites
8.3 ph(held by a controller, and verified by another test)
300ppm or so alkalinity(this is the only thing that has changed, it went up due to dosing with baking soda)
80.5-81.8 temperature throughout the day

Almost all corals are happy. Good polyp extension on the SPS and the LPS are fully open with the exception of 1 Acan. Are there other tests I should run, possibly check the ammonia level?

[Fishamatank]

what is the salinity and are you using an auto top off? These animals are very sensitive to changes in SG.

[jcolletteiii]

Alk is too high. I'd do a substantial w/c to start. 300ppm = 16.8 dKh, you want alk between 7 and 12, or if you use the ppm scal, between 125 and 214. To convert back and forth b/t dkh and and ppm, divide ppm by 17.86.

[strike2867]

Salinity is between 1.255 and 1.28. I have two hydrometers, and I'll go into the LFS and see which one is right, to get it to 1.26. The water level seems very constant to me, I don't top off at all. The Kalk and Alkalinity control are keeping up with the evaporation. I've lowered the Alkalinity control by half, it is very low already. I am going to run a more precise test on it.

[Levito]

I'm gonna take a guess that both your hydrometers are off. Those things are wildly inconsistent.

[Fishamatank]

it sounds like you need a little bit more equipment for the animals you are trying to keep. I would start with a refractometer. Are you judging water level by looking at the level in the display tank? You need to look at the pump section of the sump. I can't see 2 part keeping up with evap.

[jcolletteiii]

You say yourself that alkalinity is the only thing that has changed. Get a salifert alk test and confirm your alk reading. Also, why did you start dosing alk? was it low? What did you consider low? What are you measuring it with?

[sanababit]

Originally Posted by strike2867

Salinity is between 1.255 and 1.28. I have two hydrometers, and I'll go into the LFS and see which one is right, to get it to 1.26. The water level seems very constant to me, I don't top off at all. The Kalk and Alkalinity control are keeping up with the evaporation. I've lowered the Alkalinity control by half, it is very low already. I am going to run a more precise test on it.

i am thinking this is missing a 0, instead of 1.255 you meant 1.025, so if this is the case then your salinity is good, try and get a good kit to measure alk, a good value is anything between 7-12DKH, good luck

sana

[ForSaleByAndy]

You mentioned it was set up 2 mo ago? That's probably most of your problem, IMO. Slow down, man.

[strike2867]

Unfortunately the fish store was closed, so I still can't be sure of the hydrometers, will try to find out tomorrow. Most of the stars have moved and the anemone looks slightly better. I have done a real test on the alkalinity, I was using the test strips before, and it is reading between 11 and 12 dkh. The baking soda in there is 2.5 cups for 1 gallon. The baking soda was baked at 400 degrees for 1 hour. Should I lower my alkalinity more?

I started doing this because my PH wouldn't stay up. I would like to keep it at 8.3, and it was falling just too fast for the kalk to keep up with it. I have the float switches all set up and hooked up for an ATO, just no pump connected to them. There was until I converted it to the baking soda. The float switches are in the return area of the sump.

With few exceptions, all the tank inhabitants were moved over from a 55. The new additions are about 5 SPS frags and a plating Montipora colony. One fish addition of a Lavender Tang(4 inches), since leaving the pet store he has fattened up and his colors look a lot better, I'm guessing he is now much healthier. Also a few more pieces of live rock, but most of it came from the 55. With few exceptions, all corals are growing. I was set on fragging some of them in about a month.

[steelhead77]

Originally Posted by ForSaleByAndy

You mentioned it was set up 2 mo ago? That's probably most of your problem, IMO. Slow down, man.

+1 on this. An 18 inch carpet anenome in a 2 month old tank is recipe for disaster. Linkias are dodgey in well established tank and most don't make it for very long. In a 2 month old tank it's doomed for sure

[strike2867]

Originally Posted by steelhead77

+1 on this. An 18 inch carpet anenome in a 2 month old tank is recipe for disaster. Linkias are dodgey in well established tank and most don't make it for very long. In a 2 month old tank it's doomed for sure

How should I have handled it? He came over from the 55. I could have possibly given him to the LFS. When I got him he was maybe 12 inches. The 55 was 10 months old, and I had to tear it down because I grew out of it so fast.

[robs.mark]

While i would agree your Alk is too high, i would say the stars are dyeing from starvation. They seem to do better with established tanks and i would say your sand bed is lacking maturity, certainly for the Serpent, the Linkias are pretty sensitive too. Also how many do you have in their? sounds like you have over 3? Too many imo, i have a orange Linkia and a Serpent in a 9 month old 90g with rock and some sand from my previous system, I wouldnt add any more. The food source gets depleted faster than it can regenerate. As for the anemones, Again imo the tank isnt mature enough, 6 month as a guideline is good. I would get them into a different tank if i were you..

[strike2867]

Originally Posted by robs.mark

While i would agree your Alk is too high, i would say the stars are dyeing from starvation. They seem to do better with established tanks and i would say your sand bed is lacking maturity, certainly for the Serpent, the Linkias are pretty sensitive too. Also how many do you have in their? sounds like you have over 3? Too many imo, i have a orange Linkia and a Serpent in a 9 month old 90g with rock and some sand from my previous system, I wouldnt add any more. The food source gets depleted faster than it can regenerate. As for the anemones, Again imo the tank isnt mature enough, 6 month as a guideline is good. I would get them into a different tank if i were you..

The linkia is about 4 inches long. The other stars are the micros, at best they're 1 inch. There are hundreds of them, they are the first live thing I ever had in my tank when I started 3 years ago. Most of the sand I have is from my 55. I have a biocube that is 3 years mature. I can place the linkia back in there, and I have been considering it. The lights in it aren't powerful enough for the anemone, and there is nowhere near enough space. There are pieces of live rock that were in the 29 for 3 years in the fuge of the 90 too. I have tons of pods and the tank is covered with snails at night. In addition to a lot of snail eggs on the glass and overflow. Coraline algae is already in a bunch of spots on the back wall and overflow. I just don't understand why I'm having this problem, except for the few things mentioned, I haven't bought anything in the last 4-5 months.

I've completely turned off the baking soda dosing. I'm going to do an alkalinity test when I get home. I'm using http://www.petsmart.com/product/inde...ductId=2754027 as my test kit now, instead of the strips. I will lower the alkalinity as was mentioned before(letting the tank do it by itself, so it is a lower shock). I will find out how accurate my hydrometers are soon. My guess is I have been at a high salinity this entire time. But I'd be surprised, considering how well a lot of stuff has been doing. I will do another 5 gallon water change today. Stabilize the parameters some more, and add minerals. I could do a much bigger water change as well if suggested. But The stars go back into the rocks once the light turns on, and the anemone seems to be coming back.

[tspors]

Most likely it is the fact that your tank is not mature enough to be home for starfish yet. Way to early. Good luck.

[sslak]

Originally Posted by tspors

Most likely it is the fact that your tank is not mature enough to be home for starfish yet. Way to early. Good luck.

The little white stars that hitch hike in on rock should be fine even in an immature tank.

I think you have something else going on. Any chance you exposed the tank to copper or similar chemical that is not safe for invertibrates?

[strike2867]

Originally Posted by sslak

The little white stars that hitch hike in on rock should be fine even in an immature tank.

I think you have something else going on. Any chance you exposed the tank to copper or similar chemical that is not safe for invertibrates?

I have been using a razor blade to get some kalk off the sides of the tank, at most 20 minutes at a time. I wash it off and dry it off after every use so it doesn't rust. Is it possible it was in there for too long or I shouldn't have put it in there ever? It is just a regular razor blade. Are there any other symptoms I can watch for that with?

Also about a week ago I noticed a hole in my clam (a third hole thats not supposed to be there). It has almost completely healed. The clam seems good and growing.

[sslak]

Razor blades should be fine. Steel/iron isn't really a problem. You wouldn't want to leave one in the tank to rust and dissolve, but that's what I use to clean my glass too.

[strike2867]

I've done a 5 gallon water change. Another thing I recently changes is going from Kalk +2 to BRS Kalk. Should I switch back?

[strike2867]

Quick update:

I checked with my LFS and the salinity turned out to be 1.027, so I'll be lowering that a little. Also my Calcium was at 350, so I'll be switching away from BRS Kalkwasser to Kalk +2. All other parameters were pretty good. I returned the Anemone, goodbye old friend. I had him for 8 months, he grew about 6 inches in diameter. I lost a frag of deep water acropora. My Blue Star Leopard Wrasse jumped out. We buried him in the backyard. Had him for 1 year. RIP.

[Romewhip]

Linkia stars like a really long slow drip acclimation- like 8 hours slow. They are very sensitive, and also starve quickly in a tank without enough microflora to eat.

I could easily see the mini brittle stars dying from the salinity difference- if your original tank was closer to 1.024 and you put them in a tank with salinity of 1.027 that could easily do it. Asterina stars don't seem to care as much, I'm in process of switching from one tank to another right now and chucked in some established live rock- all the stars and snails are still alive in the new tank.