Frag Tank Questions

[gofor100]

Alright... so my ultimate plan of getting so many tanks that my wife prefer that I just get "one big tank" is in the works...

So the tank at issue is a 24"L X 24"W X 15"T tank I just got (thanks Terry) that I'll be setting up as a frag tank (for mostly SPS, clams that I just "have" to have but don't have room in my display tank, and some acans at the bottom- probably shaded a little) and plumb it into my current display tank (60 gallons). Although, initially it has to be plumbed independently because I'm also using it as a "holding tank" for my corals/fish during a move of the 60 gallon.

So the best case scenario for me would be to buy equipment that can then be used for a larger tank down the road (approx. 60"L X 30"W X 30"T= about 230g), so I'm trying to plan accordingly.

First on the list is lighting... since I already have two LumenMax Elite DE 250W MH reflectors for my 60 gallon (and like them obviously), I was thinking of getting a third and hanging it approx. 12" high (or higher) off of the frag tank, so that I can then use this reflector when I upgrade. I know this is a lot of light for a 15"T tank (which is the reason I'm hanging this at least 12" off the tank), but does anyone think I should change the distance lower/higher? Also, does anyone have any blueprints/ideas on how to suspend the light over the tank without hanging it from the ceiling (I was thinking of making something I can attach to the tank and hang the light from there)?

Then there is the filtration/skimmer... I was thinking of getting a Reef Octopus 8 Skimmer (which works on up to 250 gallons) and is relatively cheap, and then using this when I plumb the two tanks together. At first I thought this might be overkill, but since I have a 60 gallon display tank, the frag tank (approx. 37 gallons), two sumps of about 30 gallons each, I'm thinking this should work out pretty well. Does anyone have any thoughts on this set-up or a recommendation on another skimmer that could easily handle the eventual upgrade to 230 gallons and not break the bank?

Next, does anyone have some suggestions on how to plumb all of this where I can initially have the frag tank independent, then easily transition (i.e., redirect some tubing) the two tanks together?

Lastly, is there anything that I'm missing here? I've already got plenty of powerheads lying around, so the circulation should be all set. Other than the circulation, filtration, and lighting... I should be good, right (my head is so full of ideas right now, I'm sure there's something I'm missing)?

Also, if anyone has any equipment they think might be useful (i.e., used components for the above listed equipment, frag racks, etc.), feel free to PM me!

Thanks in advance for your help and suggestions.

-Chad

[gofor100]

Anyone?

Free frags for the first one to respond... JUST KIDDING!

[Spssteven]

Look at my Frag tank one 250 watt you won't need or want to use both on that tank

[Spssteven]

Ok so now I get a free Frag right????

The skimmer will work fine but you might want to go with a better brand maybe a bk?

Post pics of where the Frag tank is located and the main tank is located for plumbing Ideas.

[gofor100]

Hahaha... when I have some more you can always stop by (I just sold everything on my frag rack last week). Course, by the looks of your frag tank, it looks like you might have to make some room by giving me some of your frags! THANKS FOR THE RESPONSE THOUGH!!!

So I'm not sure I understand your first post... are you saying that I shouldn't use a 250 watt MH on the frag tank, or did you think that I was going to use two reflectors on my frag tank? In case I wasn't clear, I was just thinking of using one 250W DE MH LumenMax Elite on the frag tank, so that I can just use that reflector (coupled with the other two I currently have) when I upgrade to a bigger DT.

As far as hanging the light... are you just hanging it from the ceiling, or did you hang it by some other means (hard to tell from the pic)?

And then the plumbing... I unfortunately don't have any pics right now (and won't until I move), but it shouldn't be too complicated. The two tanks will be essentially right next to each other (the DT on the right and the Frag Tank on the left)... both have overflows, and both will have sumps below them in the stand. I was thinking that I would obviously have the Frag tank overflowing into the sump below it, then a return pump somehow going into the DT (either through the sump or directly to the DT) and then the DT water somehow getting back into the Frag tank (either directly or through the sump). Simple enough, but the kicker is that I was thinking of a way that I could somehow do water changes without turning the ENTIRE system off (i.e., redirecting the plumbing somehow, to where the DT can still run while I do the water change via the sump of the Frag Tank). It might not be possible, but I wanted to throw it out there in case anyone has done anything similar.

Lastly, the skimmer... I do love the Bubbleking skimmers (or at least I've heard great things about them), but I don't love their price-tag... I mean to get a comparable gallon capacity, I'd be paying roughly $1,000 more for the BK when comparing it to the Reef Octopus... but having said that, I'm definitely open to paying a little more (i.e., a couple hundred) for something that might be a higher quality than Reef Octopus and maybe a higher capacity of gallons.

Thanks again for the feedback... keep it coming.

[Spssteven]

Well for the price reef octo is good. Unless you can find someone selling a used bk of something.

Yeah inthought you were going tonput 2 250 on the Frag tank. One is ok.

I made a box for my reflector then used two peices of wood to go on each side of the tank it's mounted to the reflector box to the side of the stand the tank is sitting on.

[bvysochin]

Where do you live? We have a system setup exactly how you are describing.. one dt, 80 gal, and 2 frag tanks, a 30 and 60, along with a 10 refugium. Why are you using 2 sumps..? The easiest way to setup what you describe is to use the largest sump you could possibly fit. Then, drop a submersible pump for each of the tanks you are planning to run, with the overflows all draining into the big sump. Of course, there are nicer ways to do it.. like using a large sump with a large external pump, with multiple valves, unions, etc, allowing you to control the flow for each outlet individually.. that's how our next large system will be setup, with a 200 gallon pallet bin as the sump.. I don't have great deal of experience but i feel that I have seen enough large propagation setups to have a good idea of how to plumb them..

[jefathome]

For a frag tank, IMO, a skimmer isn't even needed. At most you are going to have maybe 2 fish in there, right? Maybe a tang and a LM-Blenny for algae control? A sump full of live rock should be enough. It has been for my 48x24x10in frag tank.

Oh, and I had my 250w MH about 18+ in from the water line. Few SPS though.

[gofor100]

I'm in Mission Viejo (South Orange County)...

The main reason why I was thinking of using two sumps (other than the fact that I already have two sumps that individually wouldn't be large enough to handle both tanks) was my hope to be able to run them independent of each other when/if needed (i.e., water changes, and the initial move of the DT). Thanks for the idea though... I might drain the DT into both sumps, with the drain into the Frag sump with a valve of some sort that I can close when I'm changing water in the frag tank. That way, when I close the valve and turn off the frag tank equipment (and return pump) to change the water, the DT would be running independently... any thoughts???

Also, any other suggestions on protein skimmers that would be able to handle a 250-300 gallon upgrade and cost between $250-$500 new? Of course, if anyone has a used one that falls within (or below) that range, I'd obviously be interested.

Thanks again for your help,

Chad

[gofor100]

Jefathome: yeah, you're probably right about the low fish-load and not needing a larger skimmer... but keep in mind, this is all part of my plan

It'll be an easier "sell" to my wife for the future upgrade, if all I have to purchase is a larger tank (since I'll be building the stand and canopy)...

[gofor100]

Looks like a pretty decent skimmer just popped up that reefusaca is selling... does anyone have any experience with the Bubble King Vertex Alpha Cone 200?

I might just have to pick that one up.

[gofor100]

Actually... scratch that last question... It's officially mine. So I hope that the Bubble King Vertex Alpha Cone 200 is a good one...

[Enjoy]

I have the alpha 200, and it is a great skimmer. I have about 150g total right now and it handles it no problem. I will be running it on about 200g in a few months. Great skimmer, Great pump.
IMHO

[stryker]

Good pick up on the skimmer!

[gofor100]

I'm relieved you guys are giving it good reviews... and now that I know the skimmer and lighting... now I just have to work on the details (hanging the light and plumbing).

[Spssteven]

Good skimmer pick Up

[jefathome]

Gofor... Let me know if you need any tank help since we are both in the MV.

I may have some cheap lighting available in the near future since I'm going Solar-Tube on this build (with some T5 Actinic). I think overall, Im going to have a 400w MH system, 2x40w PC's and 2x96w PC's.

[gofor100]

Jefathome: Definitely! Thanks for the offer...

I'll probably be moving everything and setting stuff up at the beginning of August, so don't be surprised if you hear from me around that time

[jefathome]

I'll drop you a PM if I need help as well.

Where in MV are you? I'm up off of Olympiad near La Paz.


Oh, and fish are friends AND food.
Might need to go get some Sushi right now!!

[gofor100]

Hahaha... not a big fan of Sushi myself, but I'll take the cooked stuff.

Definitely let me know if you need help anytime (or at least anytime after the end of July- long story). I'm not that far from you... right off Marguerite and La Barca (my next major cross street is Olympiad).

I'll have to stop by sometime to check out the tank...

[jefathome]

Over by the lake then... Cool. I head past there on my way to Mtb over at Cooks Corner.

[gofor100]

Alright... here's my latest idea on the plumbing situation... feel free to poke holes in the plan.

So, knowing that I need to have the two systems running independently at the initial phase AND that I would like to keep them independent enough to be able to turn off the frag tank, do a water change, then start it back up while keeping the DT running the whole time... here's my idea... oh, and please keep in mind that plumbing is not my forte, so forgive me if this is completely idiotic...

To keep it simple (kind of), I'll have two return pumps running in the frag tank (one going to the DT sump, and the other going back into the frag tank). I guess I could also get the same thing accomplished by getting a stronger return pump, and just get one diverting some of the water to the frag tank, and then the other water to the DT sump with some type of valve on the PVC to keep water from being diverted at the initial phase.

In the DT sump, I'll have one return pump as it currently is (going into the chiller and back into the DT) and another one pumping directly into the Sump of the Frag tank.

This way, if I plug the return pumps in the frag tank and the return pump coming from the DT sump into the frag tank sump into the same power wand, I'll just flip a switch, and voila... the DT is running on its own, and I can work on the frag tank without the DT being affected!

Bad or Good Idea???

Thanks in advance for your input!

-Chad

[Enjoy]

I would say bad idea.... If one of the return pumps fails, the other pumps will continue to pump water untill overflow/run dry. Unless im missing something.

So you are planning to have two sumps, and two skimmers on one system?

Why not just plumb the frag tank directly to the displays sump. Have one pump feed both tanks, then just use a valve to shut down either tank, while the other takes the flow.
Even 2 identical pumps will not pump water at exactly the same rate of flow. If one pump gets clogged, its all downhill from there.

Hope that helps.

[gofor100]

You're reading my mind Enjoy... after I thought about it more, that idea leaves open too many possibilities of ending in disaster.

I can actually fit a larger sump under the frag tank, so I can fit the BK in there... it is just too cramped under the DT.

Back to the drawing board...

[gofor100]

Okay... Plan B...

So taking into consideration the possibilities of one sump overflowing due to malfunction, and still going with the idea of having two sumps because of a lack of room in just one sump/cabinet for all of the equipment and the ability to run each tank independently if needed, here's the breakdown...

> I'll have the Frag tank running independently, initially, with the skimmer and return pump #1 below in the sump, with baffles before the return pump so that the water level only fluctuates in the return pump compartment. This will allow me time to set up the DT the way I want it and the ability to slowly acclimate my livestock if needed.

> Then once I have the DT ready, I'll "T" the line coming from return pump #1 to have one line going to the frag tank, and the other line going directly to the DT.

> Below the DT, I'll have another sump (with no skimmer, but probably other filtration like a phosphate reactor and carbon reactor- this is kind of the reason why I want to run two sumps, because I don't have room in just one), and run return pump #2 as I have it right now (plumbed directly into my chiller on the right side of my tank when looking at it, which is then sent directly back into the DT) in a "baffled compartment" so that the water level fluctuates only in the return pump compartment.

> The one additional wrinkle is I'll have return pump #3 also below the DT in a "baffled compartment" that I'll "T" the line and feed both the DT and the Frag tank.

Here's why I think this will work. With all of the return pumps in their own "baffled compartments" (you know, where you insert 2 or 3 acrylic or glass sheets as a bubble-trap), if return pump #1 fails due to a clog or something, then the only thing feeding the frag tank (and the sump below it) will be return pump #3, which won't last too long because once it pumps a couple of gallons more into the frag tank (which the frag tank sump should be able to handle), it will be running dry, and I'm only out about $70 to replace the return pump instead of risking an overflow of the system. If return pump #2 fails, then nothing happens because I still have return pump #3 pumping water between the DT and the Frag Tank. And finally, if return pump #3 fails, then nothing should overflow because return pump #1 should run dry after pumping a couple of gallons (which the DT sump should be able to handle), and return pump #2 will still be circulating the water through the chiller into the DT. Again, no overflow, and only out the cost of a new return pump.

I know it's difficult to truly get a picture without an actual illustration, but based on what is described, can anyone find any issues with this (other than it sounding very complicated)?

Thanks again,

Chad